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Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
Battle dread keeps making my Generals aquire the "Winning FIrst" trait. After redoing a battle about 5 times, I would always get the trait.
Untill I tried something different. I used only infantry with my General, and I finally got the "Fair Fighter" trait I was hoping to get.
What's weird is that I did everything you WOULD do to get Battle Dread. I had an equal Army Strength Ratio, but I had almost 200 more troops, I had a Clear Victory, and killed over 75% of the enemy, and my General killed nearly all of them (~200) including their General. I've attached some screenshots for you to see for yourself.
Edit: Retried the battle again, same type of victory but now I get Winning First :doh:. What am I doing wrong? I've read countless threads on the subject and looked into the trait mechanics but I still find it nearly impossible to get BattleChivalry. Battle odds don't seem to matter, General kill counts don't matter. The Fair Fighter trait requirements are also something crazy like win the battle with less than 20% of the enemy killed, odds in their favor, and you have a 30% chance to get it :dunno:
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
Fair Fighter strikes me as a bit too strong in its requirements, while Winning First is quite liberal about its applications. It's something I'd personally change up if I was designing traits and the like. It does strike me as inconsistent in application regardless, though; it would be interesting to see some views on it.
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
In the back of my mind I have the notion that killing fleeing enemies works towards dread.
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
It's way easier to get BattleDread. The best way to get BattleChivalry is to attack enemies of a different religion and to fight a battle where you are attacked and slightly outnumbered. Actually the very best way is to marry someone in your family or adopt someone with the trait.
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
From Salisian's guide :
"The way BattleChivalry and BattleDread work is that they are not antitraits,
but instead, are handled by having each trigger for one check to make sure
there are no points of the other. This means that sometimes the game favors
one or the other, depending on which conditions it checks first.
A general offered for adoption, lesser adoption or marriage gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 50% probability. If a general offered for adoption or
lesser adoption gains this point, he gains two more points with 33%
probability. Note that these options come before the triggers for gaining
BattleDread on adoption or marriage, so it is far more likely a general will
start with BattleChivalry.
If a general with no levels of BattleDread kills eight or more enemies in a
battle, he gains a point of BattleChivalry.
Note that this trigger comes -after- the similar trigger for BattleDread, so
it is far more likely a combative general will gain points of BattleDread
unless you somehow acquire BattleChivalry otherwise.
If a general loses a battle in which the general did not kill any of the
enemy, and the total number of enemy killed is less than 10%, he loses a
point of BattleChivalry. If a general routs in battle and kills less than 8
enemies, and the total number of enemy killed is less than 33%, he loses 2
points of BattleChivalry. If a general routs in a battle with odds greater
than .75, kills less than 8 enemies, and his army kills less than or equal to
66% but greater than or equal to 33% of the enemy, he loses a point of
BattleChivalry. If a general wins a battle with odds less than .8 in which
he was not the attacker, he has no levels of BattleDread and he personally
fought in combat, he gains a point of BattleChivalry. If a general wins any
battle with odds less than or equal to .5, he personally fought in combat,
and he does not have any levels in BattleDread, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 66% probability. If a Catholic or Orthodox general with
no levels of BattleDread attacks an Islamic general, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 33% probability. If an Islamic general with no levels of
BattleDread attacks a Catholic general, he gains a point of BattleChivalry
with 66% probability. If a general with no levels of BattleDread wins a
battle with success rating of average or better, kills less than 20% of the
enemy, and the battle odds were less than .95, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 33% probability."
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
If what you actually want is more chivalry points for your general I believe the surest way to get them is to rout the enemy army, take as many prisoners as you can and release them without ransom.
This will also increase the chivalry points of your faction leader even if he was not in the battle.
And it will improve your standing with all other factions, even the ones you are at war with.
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
I've been ambushed with odds of 3:1 against, lost the battle, and still been given Winning First.
Why is it set up this way?
My own impression is that it is to reduce chivalry points for generals, making it harder to grow cities/castles. Similarly traits/ancillaries like Harsh Ruler and Tax Farmer which reduce growth in settlements governed by affected generals, and I often find that generals are given several growth reducing factors.
Counters are occupying not sacking settlements, resident generals when religious buildings are completed, and as paleologos noted, releasing prisoners without ransom.
Re: Battle Dread and the Winning First Trait
I have no idea if that holds any accuracy.
It is vary easy to manipulate the chances of gaining chivalry points of governing generals without sending them to battle, simply by lowering taxes.
If they have low taxes for a while their are very likely to get the "Fair Ruler" trait, so what you mention is not a reliable method by CA to reduce settlement growth.
About the battle you played, the "Winning First" trait may have something to do with having more units of superior troops attack one enemy unit of lesser troops, as that would go against Homer's warrior code (roughly translated as: "each would seek a match among his equals", from a description of a battle in the Illiad).