Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fraxinicus
If you're not using Latin names in Iberia because they look too strange, then you should consider avoiding Latin names elsewhere. Personally, I like the idea of having Latin consistently everywhere within Christendom, but if you're going to be inconsistent in the application of the names, I think it'd be better to use the common English names/the names of the local lingua franca.
Tripolitania is Tarabulus in Arabic, and Yemen IS an Arabic name. Scholarly transcription would make it Yaman, but Yemen arguably represents the pronunciation better, and it's already widely known with that spelling.
I don't mind a little bit of inconsistency for the sake of visual appeal and name recognition. But that is something that I wanted to get more feedback on.
Should province names be:
a) all in Latin
b) all in English
c) melting pot of Latin, English and regional variations (as it is currently).
I had this thought about turning completely to English with sea provinces - some names can get pretty obscure in Latin (Mare Rubrum - Red Sea for example). Age of Charlemagne campaign set the precedent of having all land and sea province names in English, and in Italian and Arabic transliteration where no English word exists.
But city names are finalised. They're already mostly in English, unless a regional version sounds more valid. (Braunschweig instead of Brunswick for example).
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jan_boruta
Most of the rebel names are based on their geographical region and not ethnicity. In regards to Vascon rebels, I'm not sure if it's worth creating a rebel group for two regions (and if it's province-related, then I can't do anything about that fact.). So they're "Spanish" and "Occitan" not because of their genes but because they're in Spain and Languedoc. There are a few exceptions (Slavic, Turkish, Gaelic etc.), so I could think about it. There certainly is room for diversity but I'd have to investigate if it's region- or province-based.
I appreciate your answer and effort. I understand that finally Navarre and Gascony are not going to have a differentiated and same rebel-group as Gaelic or Slavic rebels...
:( What a shame.
Thank you again
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
I had an mistake when typing. Trebizond got non agretion pact with Georgia and the Cummans.
And don't change the names of the provinces.
My next comment will be the family trees and the generals for Asia minor and the Balkans.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Thank you for your help. :) I am currently starting to do reskins of the UI for the mod so I can spare little time for diplomacy research. I'll get to it eventually, but all the help will be appreciated.
Minor change to the provinces map, renamed Tripolitania to Tarabulus to get rid of an unnecessary Latin name - as per suggestion.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jan_boruta
I don't mind a little bit of inconsistency for the sake of visual appeal and name recognition. But that is something that I wanted to get more feedback on.
Should province names be:
a) all in Latin
b) all in English
c) melting pot of Latin, English and regional variations (as it is currently).
I had this thought about turning completely to English with sea provinces - some names can get pretty obscure in Latin (Mare Rubrum - Red Sea for example). Age of Charlemagne campaign set the precedent of having all land and sea province names in English, and in Italian and Arabic transliteration where no English word exists.
But city names are finalised. They're already mostly in English, unless a regional version sounds more valid. (Braunschweig instead of Brunswick for example).
I think you should stay consistent with the same scheme throughout wide areas, at least. It was quite jarring that we had Constantinopolis yet Rome (not Roma), and although cities aren't changing, you should be consistent with province names.
Personally, I would like a Latin/Arab split, based on the common scholarly/diplomatic language of each region. Why this would be better:
-Highlights how religion/broad cultural grouping was more important than ethnic identity in the period. Instead of seeing a transition in name styles between France and Italy, we instead only see transitions at the borders of the Christian/Islamic worlds.
-With two big blobs of Latin and Arabic, when looking at each region, it will feel more like viewing a period map - instead of every province clashing with another due to every dialectal form being included, or because one area has a common Anglicized name and its neighbor doesn't, you have consistency across wide regions.
-It's what maps of the time would have looked like - regardless of local language, the literary and scholarly languages of the Western world at the time were Latin and Arabic (with Greek, Slavic, and others being important in smaller regions).
Especially with Latin names, having a few uncommon ones that you may not recognize at first can actually help with immersion - it's easy to not even notice names if they all look like English names with -um or -ia added at the end, but people will take note if they see one they don't recognize immediately. But because that will only be a few provinces, it won't be a big deal.
I'd prevent mixing Arabic and Latin names within the same geographic region - so, Iberia and Anatolia would get entirely Latin names, while the Crusader Levant would get Arabic names. This also matches with the likely outcome of in-game events.
The main question is what to do with the few areas that don't fit into the Latin-Arabic dichotomy. It might be cool to have the real-life oddball states stand out in game via their names, but it could become jarring, like seeing Aethiopia surrounded by Arab names. I think it would work in areas like the pagan Baltic and Orthodox Slavic areas, because those are all on the fringes of the map, and quite large.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
actually Malek Dinar ghoz Captured Kerman and destroyed Seljuks of Kerman at 1187 :) i meant to build them as a nomadic tribe since until today so many seljuks exist in Kerman :)
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
well since your mod is set up at 1200s wont you make Qara Khitians of Kerman or at Least Nomadic faction of Khitians. Buraq Hajeb Khan captured Kerman at 1227 from Khawrazmid empire during Mongol Invention. Khitians were from between Mongolia and Manchuria but since Jurchen people of Manchuria destroyed them they migrated in to west and established Qara Khitians by Yelu Dashi who was known as John Prester in Europe and Liao Dynasty destroyed at far east. later Mongolians and Kharazmid destroyed them but at age of Mongol Invasion to Iran at 1227 they captured Kerman. they were also known as Qotlogh Khani dynasty. PS they weren Turkish nor Turcoman like Seljuks but they forgot their own language and adopted Turkish. so wont they be as nomadic clan at this mod ? although your mod is set up at year 1212.
About Iraq and Irak so why dont you use their Actual names ? its right as you said. even in Iran of today few would known state of Iraq e Ajam even though it existed until 100 years ago and it turned into several other provinces at like Isfahan , Hamadan and etc. but even until today we have style of Iraki Persian poems. it doesnt mean country of Iraq it means Iranian Irak. so you can make Arabian Iraq as Iraq e Arab and make Iranian Iraq as Irak e Ajam ( former Media ) or Just make it as Iranak the name which used at age of Sassanid empire of Media.
About Tabarestan well you Know Tabarestan was only name of State of Mazandaran which is located at south of Caspian lake and it was capital of Iran they had local kings until age of Safavid empire more the less like Bavadids as you made them. But Azarbaijan was More Important specially because of Ildeniz Atabegs of Azarbaijan and later Ilkhanid Mongols set Tabriz as their Capital. name of Azarbaijan is Arabized form of AzarPaigan which means land of holy fire. so if you like to use more Persian name for it Azarpaigan is the right Choice. PS Mazandaran or land of Mazani is new nationalist name which Tabarastan is calling.
and about Baluchistan well Baluchistan name is a new name which is use since 19th century by British Empire just like Afghanistan ( land of Pashtuns ) but on that time Baluchistan was called as state of Makran even until today costal lands of there as call as Makran's Beaches and Part of it set up at Baluchistan of Pakistan. But Since you built Zarang ( Zaranj ) as a city in that state and Zaranj was Capital of state of Sistan its more accurate to write Sistan and Makran.
People of Sistan are Persian while people of Makran are Baluch but even in Today Iranian parts of Sistan and Baluchistan are call as Sistan o Baluchistan Province ( though half of Sistan is in Afghanistan and Half of Makran or Baluchistan is in Pakistan )
If you like i can send you map of Iranian states at age of Middle Ages :)
PS cities Such as Samarkand and Bukhara were in state of Fararud while Gorganj and Khivah were in state of Kharazm
PS 2 people of Gorganj were mostly Persian thats why it was called as Gorganj in Persian While Iranian Turks called it as Urgenj ( Jorjaniye in Arabic ) and People of Kath were Turkish :)
so sorry for typing so much.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Hi everyone !
After watching everything about this mod all night long, let me first thank you for this !! This mod is a fulfilled dream for me !!!! Also a big thank for adding the Duché de Lorraine to this mod ! :)
Just wanted to share with you the idea of an other faction/emergent faction/régions of a faction : Alsace
This region used to be like Swiss. It was an independant region, a conglomerate of Alsacian cities. This region was part of the Holly Roman Empire (between 962 and 1648), but much more independant than the other regions. They were directly accountable to the Emperor. It became a "free imperial city" in 1962. Following your settlement map, they'd be located at Starsburg. It can be interesting because they always wanted to be independant, but always have been struggled between France and Germany...
The English wiki page is not as complete as the French one, but here's the story : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#History
Sadly, I don't have that much informations about it yet, but can easily get some ^^ We don't speak that much about Alsace (Elsass) and Lorraine (Herzogtum Lothringen) in France :(
If you're interested, I'll try to get more informations about it (my father's got those 2 regions as an "historical hobby")
To finish, I've got another question : do you plan to translate it? If so, I'd gladly help with French :)
Thank you again for your amazing work !!!
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Major languages should be used, Latin for most Christians, Greek for some, Russian for some, Arabic for Maghreb and Arabia, Persian for Persia, Caucasia, maybe Turks town wise. Having ALL European cities in Latin and ALL Muslim in Arabic is equally wrong even on this level
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Linke
Major languages should be used, Persian for Persia, Caucasia, maybe Turks town wise. Having ALL European cities in Latin and ALL Muslim in Arabic is equally wrong even on this level
This is wrong too.
Whole caucasus including South and North were orthodox Christians during medieval times, Georgians, Chechens, Alans, Circassians, Laks. Every nation had its own language but all of them were writing in Georgian Alphabet except of Alans who were writing in Persian.
Putting Caucasus to Persian language is nonsense. It should be Latin or Georgian.
by the way Turks were writing in Arabic not Persian.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
I can agree with Georgia absolutely should be in a christian language, maybe not in modern azerbaijan. Turks I thought were mostly so called persianates, wikipedia says rum used persian officialy, i take it in the same way latin was used officialy in europe. Yea they could be arabic I suppose though. IF we start doing turkic we begin to get to detailed for this approach
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Europe is just Fine,balanced with the named Latin/Slavic/Greek and Asia with Turkic/Arabic.No need for Changes.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Linke
Turks I thought were mostly so called persianates, wikipedia says rum used persian officialy,
Another wikipedia victim here...!!!! Turks never spoke persian or arabic in history. they jut used the persian alphabet....
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrozenmenSS
Europe is just Fine,balanced with the named Latin/Slavic/Greek and Asia with Turkic/Arabic.No need for Changes.
If europe gets three I think asia should have three, turkic, persian, arabic.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
affluence
Another wikipedia victim here...!!!! Turks never spoke persian or arabic in history. they jut used the persian alphabet....
Well actually they kinda did. Yes they didn't use Persian compeletely but they spoke Turkish with Persian style. Many Turkish poets wrote poems with using Persian. Ofcourse these people were mostly nobles or who lived among Persians for a time. Since Persian language sounds really nice and had more words than Turkish, poets decided using Persian words and rules in Turkish to express themselves properly. That is what Divan Literature was all about in Ottoman Empire.
In Great Seljuk Sultanate court they had to speak Persian because all the ministers, nobles and courtiers were either Persian or Persianate. Arabic was also spoken because it was the religious language. Like Latin for Christianity. But unlike nobles, Turkmen tribes stayed loyal to their Turkic heritage and had their language protected. Like Menteşe Bey says under your reply box :D
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
I just Saw the Campaign map and Venice and Genoa Cant trade with Georgia,so make them trading with Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia.
And give Nicaea and Bulgaria Non-Aggression pact.There was some diplomacy between them suggesting that there was some cooperation that stared in Boril's Rule and Florished in Ivan Asen's rule with Nicaea.
Now To the Family trees of the Factions in the Balkans and Asia Minor and Starting Armies.
1)Bulgaria
Other Nobles:
Strez - probably Boril's brother - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Skopia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strez
Alexius Slav - Boril's cousin - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army between the cities of Thessaloniki and Plovdiv in the mountain pass in Sredets region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Slav
Alexander Asen - Boril's cousin - 20 years old
https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90...81%D0%B5%D0%BD
Ivan Asen II - Boril's cousin - 23 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Asen_II_of_Bulgaria
Make all of them with low loyalty.
Ruling party:
Boril Asen - Ruler - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in the capital Turnovo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boril_of_Bulgaria
Anna Annisia - Queen - She was also the queen of the deceased Tzar Kaloyan in 1207.She had 2 kids from Kaloyan - a boy Vitleem and a girl Maria.
Make Strez and Alexius Slav younger than Boril and older than Ivan Asen II and Alexander Asen.
2)Serbia
Ruling party:
Stefan I (the First-Crowned) - Ruler - 47 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in Nish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_the_First-Crowned
Eudokia Angelina (or Eudocia Angelina) - wife of Stefan I - 38 years old - died in 1211
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudokia_Angelina
Stefan Radoslav - 20 years old - son
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Radoslav_of_Serbia
Stefan Vladislav - 14 years old - son
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan...slav_of_Serbia
Saint Sava II/Predislav - 12 years old - son
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sava_II
Give Serbia at a start a the priest ''Saint Sava I'' between the 2 Serbian regions.Sava was the brother of Stefan I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sava
For other Nobles - haven't researched yet.
3)Despotate of Epirus
Ruling party:
John Doukas - Died in 1200ad - 75 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D...sebastokrator)
Zoe Doukaina - John Doukas's wife - died (no info for age)
Michael I Komnenos Doukas - Ruler - 42 years old. - bastard son of John Doukas - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in the capital Dyrrachium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_I_Komnenos_Doukas
Michael II Komnenos Doukas - bastard son of Michael I Komnenos Doukas - 6 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michae...omnenos_Doukas
Constantine Komnenos Doukas - son - 40 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consta...omnenos_Doukas
Theodore Komnenos Doukas - son - 32 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Komnenos_Doukas
Manuel Doukas - son - 25 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Doukas
Theodora - daughter - 24 years old
Irene - daughter - 25 years old
Anna - daughter - 22 years old
For other Nobles - haven't researched yet.
4)Latin empire
Ruling party:
Henry of Flanders - Ruler - 36 years old (No wife) - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in the capital Constantinoplis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_of_Flanders
Eustach of Flanders - - brother of Henry ,younger than him - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Cyzicus
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustach_von_Flandern
Other Nobles:
Berthold II, Count of Katzenelnbogen - 29 years old - - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Thessalonika.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertho...Katzenelnbogen
Gérard de Strøm - I got no Information for him,only that he was the duke of Duchy of Philippopolis from 1208 to 1221/8 ad - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Philippopolis.
Geoffrey I of Villehardouin - 40 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army crossroad just north of Corinth where the Army can go in 3 Directions - to Corinth,to Thessalonika or to Dyrrachium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffr..._Villehardouin
Othon de la Roche - unknown age.But he died in the 1230s.Give him around 30-35-40 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othon_de_la_Roche
I didnt Added some known political players in the latin empire Due to their Absence in the latin empire in 1212 and they were in Western Europe in 1212ad and not in the Balkans.
5)Empire of Nicaea
Ruling party:
Theodore I Laskaris - Ruler - 38 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in the capital Nicaea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_I_Laskaris
Anna Komnene Angelina - Queen - 38 years old (historicaly she died with 2 of her kids 1212,But I kept them Alive)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Komnene_Angelina
Nicholas Laskaris - young son (died c. 1212)
John Laskaris - young son (died c. 1212)
Irene Laskarina - daughter - 12 years old.Its Speculated when Irene first married the general Andronikos Palaiologos, and after his death became the wife of Theodore's designated successor, the future John III Doukas Vatatzes - 1212 or 1216.So I went with 1216.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Laskarina
Maria Laskarina - daughter - 6 years old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Laskarina
Eudokia Laskarina - daughter - 2 years old
Other Nobles:
John III Doukas Vatatzes - 20 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in Smyrna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_III_Doukas_Vatatzes
Andronikos Palaiologos - no info about Age - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Dorylaion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andron...of_Theodore_I)
Sabas Asidenos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabas_Asidenos
6)Empire of Trebizond
Ruling party:
Alexios I of Trebizond - Ruler - 30 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in Trebizond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexios_I_of_Trebizond
David Komnenos - brother of Alexios I of Trebizond - 28 years old - place him with a 5 units with 75% health army in Sinope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Komnenos
Theodora Axouchina - Queen - not known age.
John I of Trebizond - 16 years old - son of Alexios I of Trebizond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_I_of_Trebizond
Manuel I of Trebizond - 14 years old - son of Alexios I of Trebizond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_I_of_Trebizond
Komnene - not known years old - daughter of Alexios I of Trebizond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnen...I_of_Trebizond
Other Nobles:
Andronikos I of Trebizond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronikos_I_of_Trebizond
7)Kingom of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia
Leo I, King of Armenia - Ruler - 62 years old - place him with a 8 units with 75% health army in the capital Tarsus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_I,_King_of_Armenia
Sibylla of Lusignan - Queen - not known age.Probably 14
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibylla_of_Lusignan
For other Nobles - haven't researched yet.
8) Sultanate of Rum
Ghiyath ad-Din Kaykhusraw I - died in 1211 ,Father
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykhusraw_I
Izz ad-Din Kaykaus I - Ruler - 32 years old - son of Kaykhusraw I - place him with a 8 units with 75% health army in Malatya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykaus_I
Ala ad-Din Kayqubad I - 24 years old - son of Kaykhusraw I - Civil war Rival of Izz ad-Din Kaykaus I - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Ancyra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayqubad_I
Kayferidun Ibrahim - son of Kaykhusraw I - Civil war Rival of Izz ad-Din Kaykaus I - place him with a 5 units with 50% health army in Iconion
other Nobles:
Tughrilshah - Civil war Rival of Izz ad-Din Kaykaus I
Manuel Maurozomes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Maurozomes
There may be more info for the Sultanate of Rum,but i didnt had time to dig around for more.
Now With the depleted armies/units the idea is to simulate the Depletion of the man power in the Balkans and Asia Minor Because there was some never ending wars and this also will help no1 to rush the first few turns the neighboring enemies in the region and all factions to be Balanced in the area and have Fare share when fighting for survival...The Balance also takes into Account my proposal of giving the Latin empire the region of Cyzicus by taking it From Nicaean Empire.
If I missed some important info Say it guys.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Linke
Turks I thought were mostly so called persianates, wikipedia says rum used persian officialy, i take it in the same way latin was used officialy in europe. Yea they could be arabic I suppose though. IF we start doing turkic we begin to get to detailed for this approach
Persian language was used in the court and in literature by poets etc, just as Latin in Europe. Ordinary Turks did not speak it.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
If they implement traits like DEI ( supply lines and stuff like that like Stainless steel did ) Then this will in my opinion be MTW 3 and replace MTW 2 lol sooooo excited
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
Dude Officially language of Seljuks of Rum was Persian also language of Divan although normal people who were Turcoman knew Turkish. any way its not a wierd thing since Turkish was also second language of Iran and lang of Army of Iran. and until age of Sultan Mohamad Afshar Karamanli Persian was Official language of there :)
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread
This is not a thread about language, please stop it.
@Frozenmen: many thanks for the research, it's of immense help. :)