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Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Yesterday I started a Byzantines campaign. On turn 1, I gathered a large army from Constantinople and the Anatolian provinces, and I attacked Ankara. After easily defeating the Turkish army, I captured and exterminated the city in about turn 2 or 3.
Two turns later, I had advanced to Iconium (Konya) and captured that too, ending the Turkish sultanate. It was turn 5, and I was attacking entirely with basic militia units (contaratoi and toxotai) plus a handful of scutatoi units and some stratiotae.
If it was really so easy to conquer the Turks, surely the Byzzies would have done it! I felt I had destroyed my most dangerous enemy, almost without a fight. I was then free to mop up the various rebel cities of Anatolia at my leisure.
Surely the Turks need buffing slightly? I noticed their only starting forces were weak infantry units and they only managed to deploy two horse archer units against me before being destroyed.
Perhaps the Turks could benefit from a bit more of a starting army? I don't want an extreme change, such as Turks suddenly getting like 3 huge stacks full of elite gold chevron units (like they did in Broken Crescent), that would be way too much. But just a handful of better units might be good. I am thinking perhaps two or three extra units of horse archers, and maybe one unit of ghulam infantry or soemthing.
At least that would make it a bit harder to wipe them out in the opening turns of the game :thumbsup2
Thanks
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
did you play that as VH campaign? if not you should try maybe you will face more resistance.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GenPatton
did you play that as VH campaign? if not you should try maybe you will face more resistance.
Yes, I always play VH/VH
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
I had similar experience playing as the Byzzies, the combination of weak Rum starting position and poor quality of their infantry plus the strength of ERE professional units leaves Rum powerless against the ERE onslaught. That's why I would like to see garrison script implemented for key AI settlements like in TATW. And I think that an additional settlement in western Anatolia (maybe Dorylaeum) could be added to improve Turkish position.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
yeah well i hope the garrison script will be optional :tongue:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Giving them a better starting army should be no problem, but the main issue for a faction like rum is that a) they could never fight solely against a united byzantine empire. Atleast not in the game right now. I mean 2 settlements versus 17, you're not supposed to win this battle. b) horse archers in general have so little value in autoresolve battles. So atleast in AI vs AI, they lose even harder to the byzantines. I haven't found a way to fix this yet...
And I don't really like garrison scripts. An additional settlement, perhaps in exchange for a byzantine one (Arta, Attaleia, Sinope perhaps) could be good...
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
Giving them a better starting army should be no problem, but the main issue for a faction like rum is that a) they could never fight solely against a united byzantine empire. Atleast not in the game right now. I mean 2 settlements versus 17, you're not supposed to win this battle. b) horse archers in general have so little value in autoresolve battles. So atleast in AI vs AI, they lose even harder to the byzantines. I haven't found a way to fix this yet...
And I don't really like garrison scripts. An additional settlement, perhaps in exchange for a byzantine one (Arta, Attaleia, Sinope perhaps) could be good...
Yes, that sounds like a good suggestion.
Please keep Attaleia in the game, that's an important city. But Arta, or one of the other small Balkans settlements, could happily be removed without me feeling sorry about it :thumbsup2
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
We need to make some researches before to remove/add a settlement to be sure we still respect the accuracy. Then we also need to consider the gameplay. There's no point to be "too much" historically accurate if it unbances the gameplay in some areas.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Dorylaeum would be a good addition, it was a fortified and strategically important settlement and the site of 2 major battles during the first and second crusade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rylaeum_(1097)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rylaeum_(1147)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Well the only reason Rum wasn't annihilated by the ERE was because the ERE was too busy fighting itself. They were very rarely able to get everything and everyone working together in the manner you do as the player. Rum historically didn't expand for a very long period of time, it took them hundreds of years before they even reached the Black Sea.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
That's correct. Also, to be honnest, I'm not a "huge fan" for more map change for now. I'm convinced that before to do that, we need to at least implement some factions' unit roster and to adjust the stats in the EDU. Then, depending on the results, we can consider to make map changes or not :cool2:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
achilles-91
you dont play 400 turns...
I just passed 500 turns on my campaign playing as the Franks... and only have 45 regions controlled because the all time I have always been maitaining good/great global reputation so I only expand when I am reliable or very reliable. XD
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Yes, it depends on people: some play 200-300 turns when others go further. About removing Rûm, same remark as for the settlement change :whistling
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
achilles-91
I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..
Wtf!
Please don't remove Turks. I am planning to play them in my next campaign! Removing them from the game is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If anyone is going to be deleted, it should be Scotland, not the Turks! Who actually plays Scotland anyway...
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
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Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Wtf!
Please don't remove Turks. I am planning to play them in my next campaign! Removing them from the game is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If anyone is going to be deleted, it should be Scotland, not the Turks! Who actually plays Scotland anyway...
agreed, delete scots and just make those regions hard to control, or just spawn armies made of scottish mercenaries once in a while
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Actually, I do like playing Scots :tongue:
As mentioned before, there's no plan to delete any faction for now. Removing Scots is not a good idea for the gameplay. That would leave England alone on their island. None of the other factions would be able to give them trouble when controlled by the AI (as the AI is not able to manage a real naval invasion).
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
achilles-91
I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..
I see all of my campaigns through to the end, even if that takes 500+ turns.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larkin
I see all of my campaigns through to the end, even if that takes 500+ turns.
What happens at the end?
I don't think I've ever played a campaign where I took over the whole map. I have completed the 'short' campaign victory conditions and watched the victory cinematic, but I have no idea what a campaign 500 turns old looks like. None of my campaigns have ever gone beyond 150 turns or so, I always get bored and start another one.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
What happens at the end?
I don't think I've ever played a campaign where I took over the whole map. I have completed the 'short' campaign victory conditions and watched the victory cinematic, but I have no idea what a campaign 500 turns old looks like. None of my campaigns have ever gone beyond 150 turns or so, I always get bored and start another one.
When you take the whole map? The victory cinematic plays again, you get a special message, and you go back to the main menu.
I find late game intriguing, when it comes down to three or four huge superpowers and their vassals, vying for control. I remember one game where the entire world was split between me (HRE) and Hungary (my ally), save for a few Mongol cities in the Steppes, which Hungary was dealing with. England and Aragon were the only two other remaining factions, both my allies too. Aragon had all of Iberia and Morocco, England just had the British Isles. But I could see that they both had stack upon stack upon stack. Aragon must have had about 50 full stacks just sitting around. So when the time came and the alliances had to be broken, I had to invade Spain with dozens upon dozens of full stacks of my own, leading to multiple battles with tens of thousands of men. Pretty awesome stuff.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
wow was that a campaign on this mod? because one thing i don't see anymore is AI having stacks upon stacks
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GenPatton
wow was that a campaign on this mod? because one thing i don't see anymore is AI having stacks upon stacks
Yeah I like the fact that there are not too many armies. It means that battles matter, and it avoids the endless spam battles which can be tedious. I think this mod has a good balance on that. I thought the same thing as you - it sounded to me like he was talking about a vanilla M2TW campaign.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Yeah I like the fact that there are not too many armies. It means that battles matter, and it avoids the endless spam battles which can be tedious. I think this mod has a good balance on that. I thought the same thing as you - it sounded to me like he was talking about a vanilla M2TW campaign.
Vanilla Stainless Steel, actually.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larkin
Vanilla Stainless Steel, actually.
Lol, I amused myself by going back to vanilla Medieval 2 Total War last week. I actually enjoyed it at first. But after a while, once the crazy OP factions like venice started sending massive OP stacks of elite units at me, I got bored and lost interest. Also, wtf is up with the movement points in vanilla - lol it takes like 5 turns just to move down the coast of Anatolia... nuts!
Really makes me appreciate how far the game has come with the help of mods. Vanilla feels like the 'arcade' version of the game by comparison.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dekhatres
:laughter:
This is brilliant. Well played, sir! :)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lifthrasir
Actually, I do like playing Scots :tongue:
As mentioned before, there's no plan to delete any faction for now. Removing Scots is not a good idea for the gameplay. That would leave England alone on their island. None of the other factions would be able to give them trouble when controlled by the AI (as the AI is not able to manage a real naval invasion).
If the English are an issue then they can be removed, too. Their rulers were just former Norman nobility who after a while fancied fighting the French. They were rebels in a sense, living in their quiet corner off the edge of the known world, like sleeping pirates aboard a ship on a calm sea, waking up from their slumber now and then to fight some distant heathen on a holiday trip or to pick the odd fight with the French when they were bored out of their brains discussing the weather. The only reason these two factions have been included is for new players so that they will not have to worry about the Mongols. The Turks are far more interesting, especially if you play as the Turks.
Are you gentlemen playing with the Gracul AI?
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Geoffrey of Villehardouin
If the English are an issue then they can be removed, too. Their rulers were just former Norman nobility who after a while fancied fighting the French. They were rebels in a sense, living in their quiet corner off the edge of the known world, like sleeping pirates aboard a ship on a calm sea, waking up from their slumber now and then to fight some distant heathen on a holiday trip or to pick the odd fight with the French when they were bored out of their brains discussing the weather. The only reason these two factions have been included is for new players so that they will not have to worry about the Mongols. The Turks are far more interesting, especially if you play as the Turks.
Are you gentlemen playing with the Gracul AI?
Removing England is not an option imo. But I agree about the Turks, if any faction needs removing it should be Portugal.
SSHIP uses Savage AI. But the AI behaviour is different (better) than vanilla SS.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Haha I don't think he was that serious. But well written nonetheless. :D
And no, SSHIP uses my very own AI, built almost from scratch. :)
Oh and thanks for the very first SSHIP meme! :)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Lol, I amused myself by going back to vanilla Medieval 2 Total War last week. I actually enjoyed it at first. But after a while, once the crazy OP factions like venice started sending massive OP stacks of elite units at me, I got bored and lost interest. Also, wtf is up with the movement points in vanilla - lol it takes like 5 turns just to move down the coast of Anatolia... nuts!
Really makes me appreciate how far the game has come with the help of mods. Vanilla feels like the 'arcade' version of the game by comparison.
Yeah, vanilla M2 is so childlike. What gets me is how small the map is. How few provinces make up huge areas of land etc.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Geoffrey of Villehardouin
If the English are an issue then they can be removed, too. Their rulers were just former Norman nobility who after a while fancied fighting the French. They were rebels in a sense, living in their quiet corner off the edge of the known world, like sleeping pirates aboard a ship on a calm sea, waking up from their slumber now and then to fight some distant heathen on a holiday trip or to pick the odd fight with the French when they were bored out of their brains discussing the weather. The only reason these two factions have been included is for new players so that they will not have to worry about the Mongols. The Turks are far more interesting, especially if you play as the Turks.
Are you gentlemen playing with the Gracul AI?
Ok, so we need to remove Scotland and replace it by strong rebels and to remove England and share their settlements between France and Norses:rofl2: :tongue:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Yeah I tried vanilla last year just out of curiosity, then quit the game after about 30 seconds :laughter:. I remember playing it extensively when it came out 9 years ago (time surely flies fast), but after discovering mods I really couldn't go back. The game looks awful now, ugly cities, ugly map, unit cards, models, retarded AI, diplomacy....
SS and now SSHIP made this game zillion time better.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jurcek1987
Yeah I tried vanilla last year just out of curiosity, then quit the game after about 30 seconds :laughter:. I remember playing it extensively when it came out 9 years ago (time surely flies fast), but after discovering mods I really couldn't go back. The game looks awful now, ugly cities, ugly map, unit cards, models, retarded AI, diplomacy....
SS and now SSHIP made this game zillion time better.
Yup, SS made vanilla 100x better, SSHIP made SS 10x better.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
i played vanilla version just for fun
it's so easy even in VH/VH :laughter:
SSHIP is far more challenging
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jurcek1987
Yeah I tried vanilla last year just out of curiosity, then quit the game after about 30 seconds [IMG]file:///C:\Users\holleye\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]. I remember playing it extensively when it came out 9 years ago (time surely flies fast), but after discovering mods I really couldn't go back. The game looks awful now, ugly cities, ugly map, unit cards, models, retarded AI, diplomacy....
SS and now SSHIP made this game zillion time better.
Yeah, totally agree.
Spoiler - I'm about to unleash a massive rant about vanilla Medieval 2 Total War. It's a bit long but I think it was fun to see the errors of the vanilla game, it helps to appreciate how good SSHIP is now :)
1). The vanilla game suffered from poor representation of several factions (Byzantines, Moors, Egypt, Turks) both on the campaign map (historically inaccurate start positions, poorly chosen province boundaries) and in battles. It offered a poor selection of units for some factions (mostly the middle eastern ones) as well as a terrible ‘look’ for Turkish and Egyptian soldiers, they looked ridiculous. The game was massively unbalanced, as small Catholic factions such as Milan and Venice were insanely overpowered and had access to better units than factions such as Byzantium and Egypt. AI behaviour was also irritating and absurd – I remember rage-quitting one campaign as Spain when a stack from Milan walked all the way from Italy through several neutral factions’ lands just so they could attack one of my cities. It was ridiculous and for me, it was a deal-breaker. Game over. I was not interested in continuing this idiocy any further.
2). Not to mention that on a deeper level, even with Stainless Steel mod, there were gaping holes in the campaign map caused by the omission of several key factions (Serbia, Zengids, Georgia, Crusader states, Abassid Caliphate) which meant that trying to play as Byzantium or one of the eastern factions didn’t really work very well. To be honest, it was blatantly obvious that all the effort had gone into western Europe and all the eastern factions were simply tacked on as an afterthought. How else can we explain releasing the game with something like 17 playable factions in western Europe, including Scotland and Denmark, when in the east we have the entire Middle East divided between just two (Egypt and the Turks)? Realistically, in this historical time period an accurate game would have been the other way round – it was the Middle East that led the world in terms of civilisation and wealth and sophistication at this time. Europe was just a backwater. So strictly speaking, a more accurate reflection of what was important at the time would be to have 17 Middle Eastern factions and maybe just one or two generic factions for Europe – I could imagine a campaign map with only two Catholic factions, labelled ‘Franks’ and ‘Germans’, and all the remaining factions consisting of all the different Emirates and states of the Middle East. Oh, and by the way, diplomacy in M2TW vanilla was broken and useless.
3). That’s just the campaign map. There’s also the battle mechanics. The charge bonuses were the wrong way round, so that units that charge uphill received a bonus, rather than the other way round! Also, the passive AI bug meant that AI armies would just stand there until you engaged them in melee. This meant you could win every battle by simply surrounding them with archers and wipe them out, taking zero casualties. I fought tens of battles where I attacked a superior enemy force and killed something like 3,000 enemies with 0 men lost. In addition, cavalry charged with their lances up until this was fixed in one of the patches. Also, siege towers and battering rams were invisible due to a graphical bug.
In short, the game was not in a fit state to be released when it was released. The work CA had done contained some brilliant elements, but really large parts of the game weren’t ready and needed time fixing bugs, making sure it all works properly and also more time needed to be spent on beefing up the factions and increasing the historical accuracy. I’ve no idea how long all these tasks take, but I’d say the game might have benefitted from an additional couple of months of development before being released.
Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of just how much work actually went into modding the game could give a better estimate of the difference, in terms of manpower and hours worked, between the vanilla M2TW release and the SSHIP version we are now playing? I’d imagine the difference might be equivalent to putting the entire game together in the first place – i.e. the work involved in modding M2TW is equivalent to the launch of a complete Total War game from scratch.
Thank you mod team, you are the best! :thumbsup2
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Yeah, totally agree.
Spoiler - I'm about to unleash a massive rant about vanilla Medieval 2 Total War. It's a bit long but I think it was fun to see the errors of the vanilla game, it helps to appreciate how good SSHIP is now :)
1). The vanilla game suffered from poor representation of several factions (Byzantines, Moors, Egypt, Turks) both on the campaign map (historically inaccurate start positions, poorly chosen province boundaries) and in battles. It offered a poor selection of units for some factions (mostly the middle eastern ones) as well as a terrible ‘look’ for Turkish and Egyptian soldiers, they looked ridiculous. The game was massively unbalanced, as small Catholic factions such as Milan and Venice were insanely overpowered and had access to better units than factions such as Byzantium and Egypt. AI behaviour was also irritating and absurd – I remember rage-quitting one campaign as Spain when a stack from Milan walked all the way from Italy through several neutral factions’ lands just so they could attack one of my cities. It was ridiculous and for me, it was a deal-breaker. Game over. I was not interested in continuing this idiocy any further.
agreed, not just terrible look, some units also have 'terrible' name, especially Byzantines
such as Byzantine infantry, Byzantine spearmen, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
2). Not to mention that on a deeper level, even with Stainless Steel mod, there were gaping holes in the campaign map caused by the omission of several key factions (Serbia, Zengids, Georgia, Crusader states, Abassid Caliphate) which meant that trying to play as Byzantium or one of the eastern factions didn’t really work very well. To be honest, it was blatantly obvious that all the effort had gone into western Europe and all the eastern factions were simply tacked on as an afterthought. How else can we explain releasing the game with something like 17 playable factions in western Europe, including Scotland and Denmark, when in the east we have the entire Middle East divided between just two (Egypt and the Turks)? Realistically, in this historical time period an accurate game would have been the other way round – it was the Middle East that led the world in terms of civilisation and wealth and sophistication at this time. Europe was just a backwater. So strictly speaking, a more accurate reflection of what was important at the time would be to have 17 Middle Eastern factions and maybe just one or two generic factions for Europe – I could imagine a campaign map with only two Catholic factions, labelled ‘Franks’ and ‘Germans’, and all the remaining factions consisting of all the different Emirates and states of the Middle East. Oh, and by the way, diplomacy in M2TW vanilla was broken and useless.
because vanilla MTW2 (and SS) were western-oriented
not only that, all western european/catholic factions have generic units such as spearman sergeants, armored sergeants, feudal knights
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
This could be a bit of an ask, but could we get the Danishmend Turks included in the game as a faction? I think this is kind of needed, as otherwise once the Byzantine player has captured Konya and Ankara, the other Anatolian settlements are all rebel and can be easily captured one by one without too much effort. Having a Turkish rival in Anatolia would also make the Seljuk of Rum campaign more interesting, too.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Good suggestion, but this isn't Broken Crescent. I think the map is too small to accommodate another faction in Anatolia. But I agree that Rum is too weak at the moment. They need some stronger starting units and personally I'd add a region or two in the area like Dorylaion or Amorion.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
The danishmends then would need to be even weaker than rum. Historically, they didn't last that long anymore after 1132...
I agree that they're an interesting faction, but they won't be represented in SSHIP, simply because the faction limit is reached.
As far as those cities are concerned: Dorylaion was in ruins apparently, Amorion was in bad shape aswell...
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
I agree that they're an interesting faction, but they won't be represented in SSHIP, simply because the faction limit is reached.
We could always remove some minor factions that nobody cares about. :tongue: Republic of Pisa, for example. That seems the most pointless faction to me, as they never achieved anything of significance and didn't control any territory. Another faction slot could also be achieved by removing the Mongols, since I've never once encountered them in my entire time playing Medieval 2 Total War in all its versions and with all the different mods.
With the 2 slots gained, we could then add the Danishmends and the Armenians of Cilicia. Or better yet, we could add a Muslim faction in the Tunisia area of North Africa, since it constantly gets invaded by the Sicilians and at the moment there is nobody to stop them. Perhaps the Hamadids or some local Muslim dynasty.
That area of the map (Tunisia) has long needed some love, I think. It's easy to forget when playing Medieval 2 Total War that until 1072, the nearby island of Sicily was under Arab rule and Palermo was in Arab hands. Syracuse was Arab until 1086 (a fact conveniently ignored by CA when they released M2TW - even though the game is set in 1080, they incorrectly gave Syracuse to the Normans).
So having an Arab faction in Tunisia really is a good idea, it would add balance and they could quite realistically launch an attempt to bring Sicily back under firm Arab control. While we are here, it (Tunisia) could also do with a bit more greenery just to the south of Tunis... : - )
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Those two names were just off the top of my head and Dorylaion was later rebuilt by Manuel. Currently there's a big gap between western Anatolia and Konya and Ankara so adding one of those two cities would make sense imo.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
I already did change the tunis region a bit for the next release. :)
Well, the only faction we could add for that time would be the zirids, but they were not really a faction anymore. I know that the area is somewhat lacking right now, but I can't really change that. Pisa and Venice are obviously important to balance italy a little. Mongols will be pretty scary with the next version. ;)
So no, no factions changes will be coming atleast for the next release, sorry.
Concerning anatolia: Name me an important city under rum control at that time and I will definitely check it. One more region would be good for them, but I don't just want to give them historically unimportant/useless cities.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Actually, the only faction I can see in that area for that period is the Armenians of Cilicia. Not sure it is worth to include them and to remove another faction.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
Mongols will be pretty scary with the next version. ;).
They seem scary enough already. In my last ERE campaign I won about 30 battles and they were still militarily by far the the strongest faction. They blitzed the Great Seljuks in about 20 turns. I actually stopped playing because I got bored defending the same settlements over and over again.
Will check regarding important Rum cities at that time, but if none can be found it might be best to add an unimportant but strategically well positioned city just for gameplay sake.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jurcek1987
They seem scary enough already. In my last ERE campaign I won about 30 battles and they were still militarily by far the the strongest faction. They blitzed the Great Seljuks in about 20 turns. I actually stopped playing because I got bored defending the same settlements over and over again.
Will check regarding important Rum cities at that time, but if none can be found it might be best to add an unimportant but strategically well positioned city just for gameplay sake.
I also mostly get bored by defendind same cities over and over from Mongols.
@MWY Can you tell us changes about Mongols in next version?
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
I already did change the tunis region a bit for the next release. :)
Ooh great, sounds exciting! Can't wait to see :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
Concerning anatolia: Name me an important city under rum control at that time and I will definitely check it. One more region would be good for them, but I don't just want to give them historically unimportant/useless cities.
Did you mean one of the existing rebel-held cities, or to create an entirely new region? If it is the former, I'd say give them Sivas, since that will stop Georgia from expanding too far west. If it is the latter, possibly something similar to what jurcek suggested, a settlement in that region between Ankara/Konya and the coastal cities. One that comes to mind is Eskisehir, also known as Dorylaeum. It does seem to have been an important strategic location. If the Turks could hold it, then they'd have a base close to Nicaea, enabling them to threaten the entire Byzantine western Anatolia. But if the Byzantines could hold it, they'd have a base dangerously close to the Rum Seljuk capital at Konya, enabling them to threaten or even conquer central Anatolia.
The city was fortified by Byzantine Emperor Manuel Komnenos during his Myriokephalon campaign in 1176. It was also the sight of battles during the First and Second Crusades. Isparta, and Laodicaea, are two other possibilities.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWY
Well, the only faction we could add for that time would be the zirids, but they were not really a faction anymore.
Yes, you're right.
Looking at the sources for Tunisia, we have Zirid rule until 1057, at which point much of the region is overrun by the Banu Hilal emirates. This situation continues until the Normans capture much of it between 1134 and 1160. But in 1160 the Almohads (Moors) capture it, and hold it until 1229, when the Hafsid dynasty establishes the first major power centred in the region since the Zirids nearly 200 years earlier.
So it's true, there was a power vacuum and chaos in the region at exactly the time our game is set. I guess it (the history) is just a shame from the gameplay point of view. If I was working for CA, my inclination would be to 'bend' the history a little bit and have a merged Zirid/Hafsid faction. :laughter:
To be fair though, I'm glad the mod is alive and well and will be happy to see it released, whatever form it takes :)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Did you mean one of the existing rebel-held cities, or to create an entirely new region? If it is the former, I'd say give them Sivas, since that will stop Georgia from expanding too far west. If it is the latter, possibly something similar to what jurcek suggested, a settlement in that region between Ankara/Konya and the coastal cities. One that comes to mind is Eskisehir, also known as Dorylaeum. It does seem to have been an important strategic location. If the Turks could hold it, then they'd have a base close to Nicaea, enabling them to threaten the entire Byzantine western Anatolia. But if the Byzantines could hold it, they'd have a base dangerously close to the Rum Seljuk capital at Konya, enabling them to threaten or even conquer central Anatolia.
The city was fortified by Byzantine Emperor Manuel Komnenos during his Myriokephalon campaign in 1176. It was also the sight of battles during the First and Second Crusades. Isparta, and Laodicaea, are two other possibilities.
But Sivas was held by the Danishmends, and Dorylaeum, Isparta and Laodicaea were all Byzantine or ruined at the time. Although of course technically the Danishmend leader Melik Gazi conquered Ankara in 1127, and Mesud didn't recapture it until 1143 so we are already taking a bit of a liberty with historical accuracy in that region.
Aksaray and Gangra would be the best candidates for additional cities held by the Seljuks in 1132.
Perhaps one alternative would be to have a scripted AI sequence which sees the AI Seljuks progressively acquire Kayseri, Sivas and Malatya from rebels at the appropriate intervals, simulating the collapse of the Danishmends and their incorporation into Rum. Although that would require them to survive a determined human player for more than a few turns, and doesn't necessarily help them fare better against the AI.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
They are doing OK in my current Egypt campaign, which is now over 100 turns in. As you can see, the AI Turks have taken over their historical territories, and have even captured Attaleia from the Byzantines. I haven't interacted with Anatolia at all during my campaign, although to be fair I did slaughter the Byzantines by sacking Dyrrhachion, Thessalonica, Constantinople, Nicaea, Smyrna and exterminating their population, as well as capturing Crete.
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...02218646_o.jpg
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
It's easy to forget when playing Medieval 2 Total War that until 1072, the nearby island of Sicily was under Arab rule and Palermo was in Arab hands. Syracuse was Arab until 1086 (a fact conveniently ignored by CA when they released M2TW - even though the game is set in 1080, they incorrectly gave Syracuse to the Normans).
In my Egypt campaign, much of my effort has gone into capturing the provinces to the west, in Libya, Tunisia and then recapturing Sicily for the Fatimid caliph. I captured Sicily fairly early in my campaign, but then lost it again to a Norman Sicily invasion and due to a combined Abbassid and Zengid invasion of Syria, plus a rebellion in Mecca, it was quite some time before I was in a position to raise an army and transport them all the way west to recapture the island. But eventually I defeated the combined armies of the Normans and the Venetians and recaptured Palermo once more. This time I decided to take no chances, and I have stationed a full army in the city. I've also made peace with the westerners, although I do not trust them. But for the time being, the island is securely mine. I am now thinking, with the west secured, to turn to the east once more and liberate Iraq.
Alternatively though, I could take an Arab army north and strike at Rome... it's not far from Palermo! I have a strong fleet, and the thought of unseating those Crusader dogs in their Catholic homeland is appealing. The cry 'Allahu akbar' shall replace the sound of church bells in Rome. La ilaha illla-lah, Muhammadur rasulla lah!
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...37134737_o.jpg
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
In my campaigns, it really depends: sometimes Rûm gets ripe out quite fast and some other times, they get pretty well.
@bigdaddy1204, if you go further North, I'm sure you'll get a lot of "Crusader dogs friends" up there :tongue:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
Syracuse was Arab until 1086 (a fact conveniently ignored by CA when they released M2TW - even though the game is set in 1080, they incorrectly gave Syracuse to the Normans).
Actually we do not know that for sure, in 1038, the Byzantine general George Maniakes conquered the city and half the island, sending the relics of St. Lucy to Constantinople.
The conquest of 1086 might have just been a Norman taking of an independent settlement since there was no known Emir since 1044, a lot of the christian cities in the island already rebelled long before the Normans came...which is one of the main reason they came in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
The cry 'Allahu akbar' shall replace the sound of church bells in Rome. La ilaha illla-lah, Muhammadur rasulla lah!
Yeah, calm down there buddy.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
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Originally Posted by
Lifthrasir
@bigdaddy1204, if you go further North, I'm sure you'll get a lot of "Crusader dogs friends" up there :tongue:
Yes lol, I have written a very fun AAR post about it in the 'post your empires' thread, which can be seen here with lots of pictures :)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14736696
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marius Marich
Actually we do not know that for sure...The conquest of 1086 might have just been a Norman taking of an independent settlement since there was no known Emir since 1044, a lot of the christian cities in the island already rebelled long before the Normans came...which is one of the main reason they came in the first place.
Wow, interesting. I didn't know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marius Marich
Yeah, calm down there buddy.
:laughter:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marius Marich
Yeah, calm down there buddy.
Let's call a crusade upon him :pope: :towar:
:laughter:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lifthrasir
Let's call a crusade upon him :pope: :towar:
:laughter:
I will convert you! Lol, do you remember Age of Empires...? :)
In that game, there was a priest unit, and you could convert enemy units to join your faction. They would change colour, and turn against their former comrades.
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...vert-enemy.png
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Oh yes, these priests gave me some hard time
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigdaddy1204
The cry 'Allahu akbar' shall replace the sound of church bells in Rome. La ilaha illla-lah, Muhammadur rasulla lah!
rofl how to turn med2 into a jihad simulator 101
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dekhatres
rofl how to turn med2 into a jihad simulator 101
Lol. Yup!
Of course, the real scholars of Islam are a bit uncomfortable with the word in the way I've used it, as political jihad is not universally accepted as the correct way of the term. It also has another meaning, which many people say is the primary one, in which it means 'the inner struggle with our own emotions', where we seek to master negative emotions such as anger or pride and instead change them into positive emotions of peace, mercy, respect, kindness and goodness.
This position is supported by the Hadith (sayings) of the Prophet Muhammad, who said that the 'inner jihad' to become a better, more honest and truthful person is the greater jihad. It's a shame that newspapers in mainstream media never bother to report that. But it's known by Muslims. :)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lifthrasir
Oh yes, these priests gave me some hard time
Army of monks gg
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lifthrasir
Actually, I do like playing Scots :tongue:
As mentioned before, there's no plan to delete any faction for now. Removing Scots is not a good idea for the gameplay. That would leave England alone on their island. None of the other factions would be able to give them trouble when controlled by the AI (as the AI is not able to manage a real naval invasion).
Everytime i play any other faction other than the English, Scotland takes over The British Isles. Absolute blasphemy smh tbh fam
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
How about simply put all Turkish factions together to have one strong faction? Then "Turks aren't a bit weak anymore".
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
I just lost a campaign because of Turkish rebels!
In my latest Byzantines campaign, I completely screwed up the campaign. Although I wiped out the Turks after 5 turns, I was then immediately sieged in Iconium by a large rebel Turkish stack. Embarrassingly, I tried to attack them but lost the battle and my general and his whole army was killed. I reloaded and tried again, and the game crashed to desktop. I tried again a third time, and I still lost. Finally, on the fourth attempt I managed to defeat them after waiting some turns and bringing up reinforcement horse archers and infantry from Constantinople.
I wasted so much time trying to defeat this rebel stack, and when I'd finally done it my army was almost annihilated. I then decided to move them west, towards Smyrna region, where another rebel stack was devastating the countryside. This took several more turns, as they kept moving. Along the way, I was ambushed by a third rebel stack, which I defeated on autoresolve, but then found my forces too weak to defeat the remaining rebels. I then had to wait several more turns until I could scrape together enough troops to defeat them.
By this time, to make matters even worse the Sicilians promptly laid siege to Dyrrhachium in the far west, so I decided I'd have to transfer my army west instead of going east to resume the conquest of Anatolia. I marched to Thessalonica, at which point the Sicilians bizarrely stopped the siege. I took the opportunity to propose peace, and they accepted. But by the time I finally managed to march my troops all the way back into Anatolia, Sivas and Caesarea had fallen to the Georgians!
At this point I realised how much I had totally screwed up the campaign and decided to give up and start again. What a mess! I've rarely ever had such constant trouble from rebels. While I'm at it, I forgot to mention that every turn for four consecutive turns, a rebel army spawned near Sinop and laid siege to the town. Their repeated attacks wore down the defenders. No sooner would I defeat one rebel attack, only for them to immediately spawn yet another wave of attacks and lay siege again. This continued until eventually the defenders were overwhelmed, in the fourth battle of Sinop and I lost the town. Although I immediately dispatched a large army and retook the town, it delayed my main army getting into central Anatolia even longer and was another factor in my decision to give up.
That's probably the first campaign I've ever lost because of Rebels! :laughter:
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Well I would hardly call that losing the campaign. When I read the first sentence I thought the Turkish rebels captured Constantinople or killed your entire family tree or something :laughter:. Personally I really like the aggressive rebel behaviour and strong garrisons in SSHIP, they almost feel like a real faction instead of a minor inconvenience like they were in SS. As you said in the OP, Rum Seljuks are too weak, playing as ERE you could wipe them out at the beginning if you wanted to. That's why I left them alone in my campaigns. I let them capture Sivas and Kayseri, just to make things more challenging.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jurcek1987
Those two names were just off the top of my head and Dorylaion was later rebuilt by Manuel. Currently there's a big gap between western Anatolia and Konya and Ankara so adding one of those two cities would make sense imo.
It just occurred to me that there are no castles anywhere in western and central Anatolia. In fact, the only castles are at Caesarea and Sis, both of which are at the eastern end of Anatolia. I reckon we need a castle in the western part of Anatolia. The Byzzies definitely need a starting castle in Anatolia. I would suggest the northwest area of anatolia - the region known as Neokastra was extensively fortified by John II and Manuel I Komnenos and many castles were built in that area, eventually leading to a theme being created there in the 12th century. If we don't want to add any new regions, might I suggest turning Nicaea into a castle? It's in the right location and the area was a strongpoint of Byzantine military colonies, garrisons, fortresses, castles and training camps. That area resisted Andronikos I in 1182 and it was the basis of the later Empire of Nicaea.
Alternatively if we are looking to create a new region, then I might suggest Adramyttion, the capital of the Neokastra theme? It was located where the modern town of Edremit is located, in the northwest Aegean coast of Anatolia, to the north of Smyrna.
What do you think?
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
I don't understand that cartoon. The saint or whatever it was changed one of the girls' shirt to red and why did the other one attack her?
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
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Originally Posted by
k/t
I don't understand that cartoon. The saint or whatever it was changed one of the girls' shirt to red and why did the other one attack her?
Uhm... Think you've posted in the wrong thread? :P
Still, even worse, I think I know what you're talking about, this one right?
It's from the game Age of Empires. One unit is the Monk, who can convert enemy units to your side. When doing so, he would chant 'Wololo'. Converting a unit within a group of enemies, tend to mean that unit would get attacked by it's former allies.
And really, if you don't know Age of Empires, you might want to look into it. Really cool RTS. There was a HD edition of AoE2 (best game in the series) released not long ago, and there's a new expansion pack being released for that in like a week or so.
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Really?! A new expansion for AOE2 is being released? Where?!
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Yes bigdaddy and the 5 th november will release a new age expansion( i guess is age of african,with berebers,mali empire and new units)
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larkin
Well the only reason Rum wasn't annihilated by the ERE was because the ERE was too busy fighting itself.
And the Turks were too busy fighting Crusaders (and later Mongols) :doh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larkin
They were very rarely able to get everything and everyone working together in the manner you do as the player. Rum historically didn't expand for a very long period of time, it took them hundreds of years before they even reached the Black Sea.
They didn't expand for a long time of period because of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol..._and_conquests
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Re: Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!
Plus internal conflicts so common to Seljuks princes at that time :whistling
But on the other hand, they played quite an important role during the Crusades and reached a high level of culture.