Agnostics

Haha! He said puzzled

Welcome mate!

Hey mah bi peeps.

~*screams "I come to Invade!"*~

I'm a Pantheist. Do I fit in? I am and have always been on the edge of Pandeism & Naturalistic Pantheism.

I believe that everything is part of the universe; How could you deny it? Everything thing that happens just happens; Faith & Destiny are irrelevant. I can and do accept multiple outlooks on how everything is to be; even if I do not always agree. In doing this I acknowledge that the delineation of existence is being explored fore when you explore you are further comprehending yourself.

As sentient lifeforms, I believe that we are of a higher uniqueness but not greater equivalent of everything in the Universe... as everything dependents on something else.

To cut this short without rambling, I will quote something from Wikipedia on the Minbari, a Fiction Race from Babylon 5.

The Minbari have a belief that the universe itself is sentient, and that the universe has the ability to break itself into many pieces and invests itself in every form of life. Consequently, every being is a projection of a part of the universal soul. They believe that the universe uses the perspective of individual sentient beings in a process of self-examination and a search for meaning.

I think I have made a subject fit for discussion.

Hiya Artetius

About pantheism, If you claim you have knowledge of the entire universe I'd have to say that I doubt you do. If you claim to have knowledge with regard to pantheism's 'correctness' then I think you're not being agnostic about it. If you don't know whether or not a pantheistic perspective is correct or not, you accept that you cannot know but still you like it then I think your belief qualifies as agnostic.

A true Pantheist doesn't believe that his view are the ultimate belief. I can openly accept the beliefs of anyone, even though I may not agree with them.
You can't believe in anything if you are not willing to defend it. With my outlook I can always try to relate to other beliefs.. either on a philosophical stage or the reliance that I am the same species as the opposing believer & because of that neither of us can be right.

Hi there and welcome, I'm not sure I see how pantheism as a belief allows you to see other perspectives, or that pantheism relates to the universal soul in any way. Pantheists are worshipers/believers of multiple divinities correct? You can be agnostic and hold favor for a particular system of thought. It's the ultimate truth we all seek through our agnosticism, it simply allows us to accept our limitations of the human capacity for intelligence.

Sounds to me like you fit right in

Hi. I'm new here. Let me introduce myself.
I, like you, am not sure whether there is no god, or if there is god. I, like you, am superior to all those theists and non-theists in the sense that we all have the intelligence not to choose.

So, like umm, do you guys wanna hang out?

Basically I believe you can only ever be right within the constraints of a model and no model is ever right. I've heard this called "model agnosticism".

Directed to Armatus. Pantheism doesn't exactly allow you to accept multiple divinities, it is really dependent on your form of Pantheism. My Pantheism is a mixture of both Pandeism & Naturalistic Pantheism with a dash of Cosmotheism.

My entire belief system was brought on in my late 20's when I started to research old religions & beliefs. I thought to myself that Christianity and Islam (I was Episcopal at the time) couldn't possibly be correct since there are religions much older than them with parallel similarities.

Welcome Manoflooks,

and thank you for clarification Artetius.

what typical questions do you hear as agnostics on the street?

I hear mainly that I don't believe in God.

Well, with regard to my stance on theism I'd rather say that I'm atheist. I find that more people misunderstand agnosticism than atheism. Some people will think that I believe there is a god but I'm just not sure, which isn't true at all. The problem with calling myself an atheist is similar, although I don't believe in any god (weak atheism) people will assume that I believe that god does not exist (strong atheism). So given the choice of being mistaken for a theist or smaller chance of being mistaken for a strong atheist I pick strong atheist. I also resent being called a fence sitter when in actual fact my stance is contrary to both the theist and the strong atheist. This is why if asked I will admit to being an atheist before explaining that I'm an agnostic.

I totally understand what you are saying there. The truth of being an agnostic is that there is no truth unless known. I posted this article in the philosophers group as well. The first half 'commit it then to the flames' provides a perfect mental glimpse into the mind which of all people understand best as agnostics.

HUME: commit it then to the flames
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62349

Being an agnostic seems to incite people to try to convert you more, as they think we will change our minds easily, on the fence.

@ Manoflooks and little do they know...

@ Haas that 'may' be incredibly blasphemous or not, but I have no further comment...

Haas, that's a strong athiest joke. Being an agnostic it seems ignorant to me. Are you really an agnostic?

It is funny that there is so much confusion over what is an agnostic, yet those who believe one way or the other think we are the source of the confusion.... Not.

I'm watching Bill Maher's 'Religulous' and although it doesn't really tell me anything new or change any thoughts, in a way it's a breath of fresh air. Even though he's a little too crude for some people at least he's trying to civilly (civilally in that there's no violence involved) engage the people and the believe systems so many important atheists don't want to be bothered with. He really is agnostic like the rest of us. But an atheist with it comes to the anthropomorphic God. Basically in that sense everyone in this group could be considered atheists no differently than an early Christian could be considered such for denying Imperial Divinity.

There's much more to say on this for sure, but I do want to revisit the "joke" while it very well may be BS, that doesn't change the fact that with any falsities the Bible has been a solid force of moral reasoning and guidance for people who have suffered over the ages. While it is attractive to collectively judge our most ancient forms of cosmic explanation into something damaging to the human physique we also miss all the good that has come from it when we judge it so.

We need to take rational and objective looks at religious beliefs, until we do there will always be a war of ideology because the fanatical absolutism feeds off of the negativity that is produced in opposition whether justified or not.

I would certainly recommend watching his movie. It may be rough sailing for die hard believers or moral prudes, but many of the scenes do turn out to be priceless in comic value. I think a "true believer" should have no real trouble watching this as the majority of the people interviewed are just seriously irrational judgmental absolutists. There were a few scenes I thought he went a little hard on some of the interviewees, but they will survive and if not then simply their faith really wasn't that strong if it can be tussled up by little old Bill lol... One of my favorite scenes was with the Vatican Priest. If you watch any part definitely that is a great one