my sister finally brought me the book and it has allot of good things in it. it even talks about Agim Ceku who lead the Croatian attack on the medak pocket and than on krajina and than went on to lead the KLA, in 1993 and 1995 (as most of you know) the Canadian officers wanted him indicted for war crimes. The book is called INAT images of Serbia and the Kosovo conflict. its written by Scott Taylor a former Canadian officer and now a military journalist in Canada. he spent the entire 1999 NATO bombing campaign in Serbia.
I suggest that only in the case of KFOR trying to disarm the Serbian KPS. That's the red line. And for the love of god, don't be so scared of KFOR/NATO, the bulk of their troops in Kosovo are poorly trained kids (18-25), and poorly trained kids with superweapons are still no match for vets with AKA's, and besides - this is not 1999. - NATO is overstreached and they don't need another war just as much as Russians don't wanna get mudstuck in the Balkans in terms of military presence. So what I'm saying is: we should avoid any escalation at all costs; but should the red line be crossed, we should react in the north. Just like we did in March 17th this year. The North of K. Mitrovica didn't fall on that day exactly because we fought back; wasted the Poles and the Ukranians and the French KFOR were not ready to die for KLA cause.
I'm not scared of NATO troops at Kosovo, they would be easely outnumbered and outweaponed by our forces in beginning, problem is that attack on NATO troops would automaticaly trigger full scale air and land attack on Serbia, and no mather how bussy they are all around the globe, they would still have enough power to retaliate, if not immediately than in couple of days. Now, I do agree on defence of northern Kosovo and that we should smuggle as much as weapon and men there to stop KLA terrorist crossing the Ibar, but that requires some serious level of confidentiality and organization which I doubt we are capable to achieve.
Albanians will surely try to exterminate the rest of the Serbs in Kosovo as soon as UNMIK forces left them without defence. say that again!
Well, it's useless to talk about confidentiality on an internet forum, the internet is exactly antipodal to that term, so let's leave that planing to professionals @agisilaos UNMIK Police in Serbian enclaves and in the north is actually a Serbian force - nominally subjected to the UNMIK HQ in Priština, but for all practical purposes independent of them; now the Eulex deal calls for all UNMIK institutions, Police included, to be dismembered - that's the catch, if that is to happen, Serbs will be left defenceless before the KLA (their new "army" in the making and their new police in the making), for the KFOR troops (with honorable exception of Greeks) have already shown that they are unwilling to defend them....
I'm afraid that professionals are even less confidential then us, I believe that CIA and BND know when are chief of staff farts, not to mention planing of cover up operations...
having them dismembered is not gonna help the peace process, but will be the start of a new circle of violence from the albanian side without anyone can be available to protect serb populations! things seem to get worse for you guys!
You can say that again, but now when USA is geting more and more involved in Iraq and Afghanistan everything is possible, we just need some guts and firm goverment, we have a lot to get and nothing to loose in this position.
indeed.
For 3 days now the negotiations are taking place in Kosovska Mitrovica between the Serbian KPS Police and Eulex Police chief about the future command structure of the KPS Police in the Serbian enclaves.... The general agreement has been made that the Serbian KPS will be taken out from the jurisdiction of the KPS in Priština (KPS in Priština is now, when UNMIK is gone, 100% Shqiptar Police) and that they will be under an overall authority of Eulex Police HQ in Priština..... KLA Shqiptar regime in Priština is furious, they see this as the "6 point plan" between Serbia and UN starting to be implemented; their western patrons are consoling them and persuading them that this will only be a "temporary solution"(!?!?!?!)
what will the next serbian move be?
Hard to say, since the policy of Republic of Serbia and that of the Serbian Assembly of Kosovo and Metohija (local politicians from Kosmet) are more and more becoming two different policies.... I am more than frustrated with the Serbian gov. moves as of this summer, signing the Eulex deal and all that, even though it's fair to say that kinda policy from BG was not at all inconvenient to the Russians, on the contrary - it was most probably closely coordinated with Moscow.... There is only one way that Serbian gov. can actually go from here, and this will probably mean silently and discretely pushing for a division of the province along the twisted (on the map) ethnic borders, while officially defending the national sovereignty over the entire province.... The real problem though will emerge soon, when their EU/NATO/US patrons push them to establish official ties with the KLA regime in Priština.... Some of the gov. officials are actually launching the "probes" for that kinda policy as we speak () As for the Serbian Assembly of K&M, they're the only party I can trust here, but they're pretty much dependent on the moves that official Belgrade makes, that is to say, they're one move behind all the time. Only thing we can say for sure is that they are determened to survive in the province no matter what.... They're no fools and they will not allow for their police force to be dismembered, but if the EU eventually pushes to disarm them by force, or if the KLA attacks, the Assembly will most probably gonna have to "put their light armour where their mouth is" - and with little or no support from Belgrade, and the so called "Army of Kosovo" (rearmed and "legalized" KLA vets) emerging, this would be a unequal fight indeed.... I'm generally the kind of person who goes by the maxim "help yourself so that God may help you", but it seems that from now on we're down to alot of praying to God to do all the work on our behalf ..... Only one thing I can say for sure: NATO will not be here forever, soon enough their satanist neo-liberal empire will crumble and they will be running home to "reestablish order" in North America - and that's when the Serbs and the Shqiptars are gonna have their final duel - I don't know what the official Serbian rules of engagement will be when that moment comes, but I know I sure as hell will not be taking any prisoners!
Hey Vojvoda. I dont blame Serbia for feeling isolated. As far as Russia goes, we really aren't the best ally to have, but then again there wasn't much we could do short of fighting NATO in Kosovo. We Love you Serbs and all, but Kosovo isnt worth nuclear war with NATO. It is a ing crime what happened in Kosovo, it hurts me as an Orthodox Christian to see all those monasteries destroyed and pillaged. Hopefully the soon the next generation of Serbians can see the global situation more in their favor to take back Kosovo. It hurts me more that we are more or less powerless to stop it.
Well, at least you're the best allie available - but, seriously, I consider our two nations to be as one (not only by the Slavic line but also historically, the early post-Tartar Russia was partially governed by the model of medieval Serbia, "Крмчија & Законоправило": early laws of the medieval Serbia - were deeply incorporated into first Russian post-Tartar statehood) Brotherly love and historical links aside, we both have a few important common interest - South Stream to flow, money to roll, NATO to get as weak as possible and out of your vicinity and out of our lands. I agree that the WW3 was not to be risked back in 1999. as much as it shouldn't be risked now - but we expect you to play it smart this time, get even stronger, avoid another red October and eventually to prevail against NATO. That, along with lots of cash from the pipeline deal , will be guarantee enough for us to retrieve Kosovo. Provided that we ourselves in Serbia can show some common sense in voting and politics and economy, and that we can resist the NATO long enough for them to get busted in Asia, then pack up and leave Serbia.... And then we can move on to colonize the Solar System together and eventually to fight some allien-Napoleon together - preferebly on Pluto, I hear they have a Russian style winter there all year long!
i wonder how russians feel with other slavic nations besides serbia. for instance bulgaria.
Well the relations have been pretty much the same with Bulgaria. However the bulgarian elite in the XIXth century chose an austrian aristocrat for bulgarian king. This has linked the country to the German sphere for most of the time. And then there has been a bust of friendship in communism but I don't believe the bulgarians ever saw themselves the same people like the russians. I mean there has been some cultural distance for most of the time. But still as an orthodox nation the russians feel at home, and the bulgarians in Russia. You would have a point asking how do the catholic czechs feel about the russians and vice versa. I am interested in this too.
@agisialaos: Russians views on other Slavs are simply dangerous to other Slavic nation's culture. Russia has long tradition of russification, and used it slavic heritage as a pretext of all slavic nation's conquest. Idea of 'Pan-slavic Empire' was used for Russia's imperial goals. Of course, in such imperium Russia would have leading role ;/ For denying of such policy, Poles have been called 'Traitors of Slavs' by Russia several times
Welcome to the group Phunkracy . I back to differ with your views: 1st on pan-Slavism: starting from the 19th cent. - the spearhead of pan-Slavism was not the Orthodox Russian Empire, but rather the Western Slavic nations and their liberation movements. When you look at the most eminent political figures of the movement: Košćuško (PL), Masarik (CZ), Muha (CZ), Garašanin (SRB), Pašić&Karađorđević (SRB/YUG) - you will find that their view on the whole idea was starting from the ideas of the French revolution and her "prophets" (main ideal was "European individualism" - as opposed to the "Russian colectivism") - you will also find that most of the prominent pan-Slavists were active Freemasons (with exception of their Serb Brothers, not exactly big fans of Russian Empire that always has favored Hospitalers). We can safely say that the "Freemason branch" of pan-Slavism is actually dominant and much more succesfull in history than the "Russian branch" (liberated PL, founded TCH and YUG). Practically, the "western" elites bogarted (God I love this new phrase I've learnt ) the movement from the Russians (incorporated West Slavic elites into their ranks) and used it to "westernize" the Western and Southern Slavs - that is to imbed the ideas of the French revolution and Freemason movement into their respective national-liberaton and national-expantionist movements. And this exactly the reason many Russians dislike the whole idea even today, when they could actually exploit it to their benefit..... 2nd on Russian imperialism: No doubt that Russia always was an empire, and as such was always prone to excerting political and military influence on smaller nations, but this influence was not so much about cultural but rather about ideological assimilation. Not even in Soviet times were the Poles or the Czeks or Slovaks pressured to adopt Cyrilic alphabet or Orthodox religion..... On the other hand, western imperialism of both Euro-Atlantic and Germanic branch has cultural assimilation (various degrees of it in various historical circumstances and various cases) as one of it's basic tenants. Just look at the pan-Slavic Yugoslavia and latinization of Serbian language within it, or latinization of Romanian language in 19th cent. - how about the Unionist Orthodoxy in Greece, Romania and Ukraine (no such thing as a Chatolic Church branch loyal to Moscow Patriarchy, as far as I know) - and how about contemporary negation of the nation-state as the basic foundation of the EU and promotion of the "Europe of regions" instead?
Thx, Dragun I support Serbia, it had suffered too much, hovewer I see no exit from current situation of independent Kosovo :/ It has gone too far. 1. Don't know about the Muha and fellow Balkan slavic freedom fighters, but Kosciusko fought for independent Polish Commonwealth rather than Panslavic Empire or else form of Panslavic state. The point is, that Commonwealth was multicultural, but never used it's mostly slavic heritage and population to it's advantage or as official policy, just as Russia did in 19th century on non-Russian lands, such as Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus and Poland. Yes, western Slav's elites were fascinated by this idea, but were they under Russian rule? I'm sure that except Russophiles, none of them meant a Slavic Empire under Russian rule. About the freemasons: they were very popular as soon as in XVIIIth century. In that century, 'Pan-Slavic' policy of Russian Empire did not exist. Instead, Russia used "unification of all Russian Lands' policies, which meant simply incorporation of Ruthenian parts of Commonwealth, and making Poland a vassal. When Russians gained control over Belarus, Ukraine etc, they changed course of their policies toward "Panslavism". Nowadays Russia, as a multicultural state, can not accept and support such idea. Racist tendencies in Russia are way to powerful to strenghten them with such policy, also Federation offers wide autonomy and priviliges in cost of independence. 2. Not always- from the end of XVIth century It's influence was both in terms of religion and culture. Orthodox religion was forced in lands of Commonwealth, and so was russification, not ot mention Russian colonisation (Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Baltic states). Intensity of russification differed depending on the resistance of the annexed nations, but Russian colonisation was the most dangerous for nation's identity factor. It was just like in Kosovo, but on smaller scale I don't deny Western Imperialism. Whole Eastern Germany was Slavic one day, and remains of our presence is still visible (see Berlin, Stettin, etc- all slavic names ). However, I would rather be under German rule than Russian- Germanisation wasn't so intense, and the way Germans governed parts of Poland was way better.
Any kind of support is most appreciated As for the situation, you're right, it went pretty far, still, it went even further during the Turkish slavery, but it eventually "came back" - so not to worry, all in it's right time.... I was referring to Košćuško as a Freemason first of all, the guy even fought in American revolution if I'm not mistaking. Indeed, in his time, pan-Slavism just appeared in Russia for the first time as a political idea - Russia toyed with it cuz she saw it as convenient counterbalance to the Polish liberation movement.... As for later 19th cent. - I put emphasis on Muha, a brilliant individual indeed - as an ideologist of a sort - an artist and a grey eminence in Czech politics, via his Freemason ties. The main amplitude of "Freemasonic pan-Slavism" can be detected in his series of paintings - "The Slav Epic" and his own written elaboration of that series. He saw the spiritual potential of the Slavic masses to enrich the western culture of Calvinistic industrialism and back in turn to reap the benefits of industrialization for their own individual emancipation - sort of a idealist/mystic/modernist approach. Try Googling out a great documentary about him made by "History channel" - I forgot the title though . In Freemasonic Yugoslavia, a similar ideal was communicated trough the work of Ivan Meštrović - a Dalmatian sculptor sponsored by the king. Monumental statues and temples were built in antic style - depicting the Serbian heroic-myths and honoring Serb WW1 effort. It was supposed to be a sublimation of the Serbian mythos and it's elevation to a "higher" artistic level, so that the new "Yugoslav nation" could accept it as their own colective myth. Back to the subject of Kosovo/Serbia. It was exactly the establishment of pan-Slavic "South-Slavia" that caused the whole "Kosovo issue" as we know it today. If it weren't for SHS/Yugoslavia in 1918. - communism as introduced and practiced by Joseph Bross in 1945. (with elements of Austrian policy of reducing Serbia in her 1803 borders included in it) would never take root in Serbia. Hence there would never be established an "Authonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija" in the first place. Geographic term "Kosovo" was actually reffering only to Kosovo Field and it's immediate surroundings - it was actually Hitler (!) who first introduced the "borders of Kosovo" as we know it today, by merging the entire regions of Kosovo, Metohija, Nerodimlje, Šar Planina and southern part of Raška and including them into the Greater Albania. Bross then just took that new born entity and awarded it to "loyal Albanians" - the ones who were smart enough to switch sides from Nazism to Communism in due time. And the state of pan-Slavic ideal today can best be viewed in Kosovo, of all places. When the French KFOR kidnapped the Serb protesters in Kosovska Mitrovica on 17th of March this year and thus provoked a Serbian uprising, they weren't the ones to fight the actual battle. They've conveniently sent their "NATO partners" - Ukrainians and Poles - to take the hit. The result: Slavs fighting Slavs - one dead Ukrainian, one Pole turned to a vegetable, a dozen of them injured; one dead Serb - hundreds of injured Serb civilians So much about pan-Slavism today. Needless to further explain why I preffer Russia to Euro-Atlantis...
