Casse General Mod - EB Team Test Request

[Kull]

The EB Team has been discussing the Casse General, and it looks like we've identified three major problems with their statistics. Taken together, these result in a unit that is one of the most fragile and useless in all of EB. We may post the full set of findings later, but to sum up:

1) Absence of secondary armor is probably the leading cause of chariot fragility.
2) Amount of javelin ammo seems needlessly low.
3) Secondary weapon was statted as a sword, yet the evidence suggests that only the chariot itself can *be* the weapon.

Accordingly, we would like for any Casse Players out there to replace the existing Casse General EDU entry with this one (for now we'll ignore the recruitable chariot, since the goal here is to test out the new stats and get your feedback):

;18
type             celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards
dictionary       celtic_chariot_cidainh      ; Cidainh
category         cavalry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_charioteer, 10, 5, 1
mount            celtic heavy chariot
mount_effect     elephant -5, camel -1
attributes       sea_faring, general_unit, hide_forest, frighten_foot, command
formation        7, 9, 15, 15, 2, square
stat_health      1, 2
stat_pri         5, 0, javelin, 57.8, 14, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    thrown
stat_sec         5, 40, no, 0, 0, melee, other, blunt, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr    area, launching
stat_pri_armour  7, 6, 3, metal
stat_sec_armour  10, 12, flesh
stat_heat        3
stat_ground      0, 0, -5, -2
stat_mental      15, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 60
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1349, 0, 10, 98, 1349
ownership        britons, slave

To make the switch, find \EB\Data\export_descr_unit.txt and do a search for ";18". That will take you to the existing chariot entry. Simply replace it with the text posted above. This alteration is save game compatible!!

[shylence]

strange its been up for over a month and no one replied.

Well I love the Casse and Im struggling to hold onto Gains i have made in Gaul I always Thought that Casse Generals were useless and was really annoyed that all they were useful for was to lure armys into chasing them.

once after i lost a Battle and only had my faction leader left and 6 chariots and ran around till the time ran out and had won a close victory hahaha

So this will make the Chariots a Good skirmisher unit. great!

[shylence]

I have found the New changes a vast improvement While the chariots are still weak They have now found a role on the battlefield with me. I would presume that since these are the generals men they would be quite battle hardened and that since they are on a chariot they would have been able to have more "ammo" then other skirmishers

[WCrusader]

Hi, i have been experimenting with the casse general's also i added your "fix" and even added 3 hp instead of 2 but they are still very weak they die easily... and the other prob is that they smash the soldiers to the ground but 99% of them are still alive so their charge becomes also very weak because instead of killing them they are sending them to the ground.
One thing i noticed is the Pontic chariots are extremely good vs cavalry while the Casse chariots are weak even against cavalry... there maybe something to explore here.

WCrusader

[eggthief]

well the pontic chariots got spikes on em, i know that it is just a skin but they probably had those in reality as well and those are probably the reason why they are so good against cavalry.

[Jesu_follower]

HI! well im a new casse player, and frankly the general sux! In all my other factions i use my general as a decisive unit, i put them in the thick of the battle. With the casse general, I am scared to use them, they die too too too easily, their attack sux, they run out of ammo in a blink of an eye, they are really really hard to organize, and their armor is really low no matter how many uprades the unit gets. All im saying is, plz plz plz make them a formidable unit like the rest of the generals. plz

[Foot]

Originally Posted by Jesu_follower

HI! well im a new casse player, and frankly the general sux! In all my other factions i use my general as a decisive unit, i put them in the thick of the battle. With the casse general, I am scared to use them, they die too too too easily, their attack sux, they run out of ammo in a blink of an eye, they are really really hard to organize, and their armor is really low no matter how many uprades the unit gets. All im saying is, plz plz plz make them a formidable unit like the rest of the generals. plz

Uh, no.

If you are going to charge them into the thick of a battle they are going to die.

Don't charge them into a unit of light infantry
Do charge them through a unit of heavy infantry followed close behind by a unit of your own light infantry
Do use them against enemy cavalry
Don't put them anywhere near enemy skirmishers.
Do run them behind the enemy line to scare their troops.
Don't ever get caught in melee with them

We are not going to change their stats because you like to play them differently from how they are supposed to be played.

Foot

[Jesu_follower]

well fine...even though they still and probably will always suck, goodbye casse hello decent units

[Callicles]

I'm surprised that so many people seem to install this of all mods and are then dismayed when they have to play historically.

[svramj]

hmmm....ok......Chariot itself is the weapon.....

[Henri]

Hmmm well into my first outing as Casse and I rather like the chariots...

They're anachronistic and rather fragile but great fun and seem very effective against the real bugbears of my forces : they cut through heavy cav and help break those drugged-up naked fanatics...

In fact the General zipping along the back of the enemies battle line during melee can cause a cascading route and ensuring massacre...

Big thumbs up to the EB team for creating new and interesting ways to fight in RTW...

[svramj]

increase sec armor......and put scythe instead of sword as sec weapon....it'll make them more realistic and fearsome devices.....

[Watchman]

The only chariots ever to have "scythes" were AFAIK the Persian and Eastern Hellenic specialist scythed chariots, whose battlefield performance tended to be kinda uneven by what I've read of it. The Celts' were light "battle taxis" and shock vehicles.

[Leão magno]

Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but, if the chariots are to be used against cavalry as Foot suggests should not it install fear in cavalry units too? And since they are the generals unit shouldn not their mental be impetuos and something more than trainned?

[Foot]

Originally Posted by svramj

it'll make them more realistic

Don't say this unless you have evidence to back it up.

Foot

[Watchman]

Originally Posted by Leão magno

Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but, if the chariots are to be used against cavalry as Foot suggests should not it install fear in cavalry units too? And since they are the generals unit shouldn not their mental be impetuos and something more than trainned?

I've read that in at least one instance Roman cavalry horses were spooked by the noise and unfamiliar shape of Celtic chariots, so a case could probably be made for the former. I sincerely doubt if the effect was anything close to what, say, elephants cause in the skittish grazers though...

As for the latter, probably not. We're talking about the top warlords of a hero-warrior culture with a serious machismo thing going here. If anything the top dudes were probably among the most eager to engage, fortified by their confidence in their war gear and own ability and driven by societal pressures to excel in battle and set an example.

Then again, they may also have been at the "nothing more to prove" level too.

[Leão magno]

Agreed, since they were so prone and so top in their culture, they should be better in mental stats, I believe