anyone beat mongols/timurids?

[bibbledy]

ANYONE? the only tactic i can see is a fortified all-crossbowmen army or something , i figure you could pump 20,000 bolts into their horde before it reached the gate.

[Cronis]

I found that stopping them at a fortress or citadel works VERY well. Placing archers around the walls in the final ring of defence to crispify their rams when the FINALLY make it to you. Cannon towers would also help alot. And plenty of good heavy infantry to halt them should they break through. I used 10 units of archers (I used peasant archers so better archers would probably require less) and they rest infantry and I fend them off at Kiev and then chased them down with and all cavalry army.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Cronis

I found that stopping them at a fortress or citadel works VERY well. Placing archers around the walls in the final ring of defence to crispify their rams when the FINALLY make it to you. Cannon towers would also help alot. And plenty of good heavy infantry to halt them should they break through. I used 10 units of archers (I used peasant archers so better archers would probably require less) and they rest infantry and I fend them off at Kiev and then chased them down with and all cavalry army.

Are you talking about the Mongols, Timurids or both? since I would of thought the Timurids would just blow your walls and towers to pieces?.

I'm also having a major error with the game crashing when the elephants appear on the battle map, I played a few battles with elephants and it was fine but then it just suddenly started crashing 5 minutes into the battles

[jabo0511]

You have to use the terrain to minimize their mobility. Fight on a bridge, forest or hill. Fight defensively and let them come to you. When you are deploying your army look for natural barriers to cover your flank. If your archers can you sharpen stakes use them and set up a trap.

One last thing you have to remember that you gonna need a LOT of troops. They are going to attack the same stack maybe 3-4 times in 1 turn. Also, sometimes quantity is better than quality.

[GVP]

I manage to beat them in the open with my Russian cavlary archers (the heavy Dvor not the light Kazaks). Fight fire with fire. You just have to remember to have at leats 2 units of your cavlary archers attacking one of theirs since they have veteran troops. You can also use foot archers, just watch out for their melee cavlary. Infantry isn't that good aginst mongols even spearmen since they mostly get cut to pieces by horse archers before even reaching their infantry or cavlary. Once you kill of their horse archers (that's the bulk of their army) attack their foot units. But beware even though they have bows they are still good at close quatres combat. You'll have to have a big army since they will have at lest one full stack army as reinforcments. They will aslo recive reinforcments form the east. The third wave will have rockets. These are deadly but very inaccurate and can't move when they're firing, so you have some time to move your troops.
P.S. Mongols don't usually attack fully garrisoned settlements even if garrisoned with low quality troops. So if you have one army traveling infornt of their armies and garrisoning cities and castles they pass, you might even "escort" out fo your lands and they'll wreack havok in your neighbors lands maybe even your enemies.

[AndersonVincent]

The way I was able to beat them as Byzantium on the first wave (the second wave did not attack me, neither did the Timurids), was not by winning every battle, as indeed I lost three out of four battles that I faced them in. I could not control where they attacked and whenever they went after an army of a city I realized that chances of victory were fanciful at best, but I would fight on the battlemap anyway, because fundamentally victory and defeat are not absolutes, strange as that may sound.

This was the first component of the strategy: gradually shave their numbers in the battles that they win as every soldier they lose is a blow in a way that a soldier that I lose is not as I can easily replace them.

The second component was to develop (expensive!) armies that could take the mongols on toe to toe and at least hold their own:

-the Mongols have heavy lancers, Khan's guard, and bodyguard cavalry that is devastating, and I will counter by building Kataphraktoi which is expensive but also quite high quality

-the Mongols have horse archers, I will build my own horse archers

-the infantry in these armies had a disproportionate amount of Varangian Guard Units, as I made sure that my units were the best of the best when I decided that the time was right for me to engage the Mongols head on.

I fought about 20 battles with the Mongols and I would say that of those only about 2 or 3 were decisive victories, but those where ones in which I used my armies that I had built up, and eventually I was able to damage them to the point where they didn't pose any serious threat to me, although they had other soldiers elsewhere.

Remember--

1. Shave their numbers in battles even when you are going to lose

2. Build armies consisting of the best of the best and don't be afraid to go toe to toe

3. You are going to lose many, many battles to the Mongols and do not expect to win them all, win the ones that you need to win, and don't be afraid to go after a smaller force away from their main army, as hitting back at their lesser armies is a good way to gain an advantage.

[snuggans]

as england i have about 4 generals, 5 english knights and the rest Hospitaller Knights charge them.

its a huge cavalry nuclear bomb!

[BastileBreakdown]

The Mongols come around the 13th century, correct?

When do the Timurids come?

[Sher Khan]

Play defensive. Let them come to you, but if you must fight, either make it a siege or stand your stack in a nice easily defended area like a bridge or mountainous region. I usually avoid bridges since their Horse archers can easily shoot across at your troops, causing more damage than should be expected in a bridge-defense.

What you need are fully garrisoned cities to make the Mongols think twice before attacking. You should also vacate the Holy Land from Antioch southwards - the Mongols seem to gravitate towards these cities if they come through the south.

Next, you need crack armies. Not expensive, mind you, but carefully selected troops. Usually 4-5 foot archers, a good general, and tons of crack spearmen. If you wish, afford some heavier troops, but your spearmen and archers will carry the day in these battles.

Set up camp in the mountainous regions north of Antioch and Edessa and do your best to single out Mongol armies - do not engage an army that is close enough to another Mongol army. One by one, if done correctly, the Mongols will engage your army on their turn, but if you can minimize casualties by taking uphill positions with good spear defense while you shower massed archer fire at their densest areas (horses make excellent targets for arrows) you'll find that you can completely demolish 3-5 Mongol stacks before you finally retreat (or fight to your glorious death if you wish. A spearmen-archer army is cheap enough to mass produce). Do this enough times while allowing the Mongols to march through your lands to Antioch and lands southwards, then you'll find that the Mongols are no more invincible than any other faction.

[Tangu]

The first time I saw the Mongols I knew I wouldn't be able to beat them (10 stacks with 10 star generals >.<). So I decided to ally with them by offering them my holy land settlements. Once they settled down I realised their army size were dwindling and other factions also started to crusade/jihad the lands I had given them. It seemed to slow them down, then the Timurids came once Europe was able subdue the Mongols

[Big War Bird]

The mongols are in fact very easy to defeat if you are the right faction. In fact is is quite possibe to destroy all of the cavalry in a mongol army with just one unit and not take a single casualty to that unit. Any unit that can place stakes can wipe out the mongol cavalry.

In a seige place your stake weilding archers directly behind a gate and place the stakes. Allow a battering ram to take down your gate. The mongol cav will rush the gate and impale themselves on the stakes. Only a small percentage will get through and those can be easily handled by even average spearmen. And since the mongol infantry is nothing special when it comes to hand to hand a half stack garrison of spearmen and archers can whip a mongol army in any seige.

Playing on VH, fighting a full mongol stack lead by an eight star general with 961 men, my 776 men of 4 units of militia spears, 3 armored swords, one militia cav 2 peasant archers 2 retinue archers and one longbow and no general inflicted 851 casualties and took 232. Only the armored swordsmen and 2 spear militia had to engage in hand 2 hand.

[badapple]

To beat the mongols you need calvary, calvary, and finally more calvary.

[SPARTAN VI]

I see them, but it doesn't look like they'll make it to the Italian Peninsula:

[Emperor of Europe]

In my ongoing game as the French kingdom of Jerusalem, I hoped to destroy the Mongols at my castle walls, but they simply refuse to attack them. Instead they just wander back and forth. Not much of a threat really ...

This is with a vanilla game and the latest patch.

rgds/EoE

[SPARTAN VI]

Originally Posted by Emperor of Europe

In my ongoing game as the French kingdom of Jerusalem, I hoped to destroy the Mongols at my castle walls, but they simply refuse to attack them. Instead they just wander back and forth. Not much of a threat really ...

This is with a vanilla game and the latest patch.

rgds/EoE

I noticed the same. They wander aimlessly in Turkish territory. To date, they only took out one settlement. I'd hate to be around if or when they finally wake up.

[Eschaton]

On VH/VH full stacks of French mounted longbowmen & lancers seem to do the trick. A bit expensive, but those steppe savages need to understand they're no match for the pure power of western knights !

Alternatively, a more traditional army will do ok, as long as you equip it with about four good artillery units ( basilisks ). The AI will be forced to engage you up close then.

All this is for the one turn/year condition tho, so keep that in mind.

[jimbob]

I managed to beat them with the Turks. To begin with the Turkish armies are equipped with pretty good horse archers, but they're nothing compared to the heavy mongolian horse archers, so I found the best tactic was to do something completely different to what they're doing.

Once you've expanded a bit, you've got to develop a couple of citadels so you can produce siphai lancers and ottoman infantry. Recruit as many dismounted siphai lancers as you can, bolstered up with saracen militia, and lots of ottoman infantry too. You need a few siphai lancers as well, but not too many.

To fight, you've got to keep all your units in a big box. 4 spear units in the front, with 2 more guarding each flank, and then a huge mass of ottomans in the middle. Put the spears on guard, and disable skirmish on the ottomans. Its best to fight defensively, but even on the attack, if you keep your block of troops solid, with the spears on the outside and the archers in the middle, you can walk right up to their lines, and devastate them with flaming arrows. You need a few siphai lancers to deal with any artillery units the enemy have, and they're useful for charging any foot archers or cantabrian circles the enemy have.

Fighting against the mongolian elephants is similar, except you pretty much have to fight on the defence, and you need to field artillery to route the elephants. I've found bombards ballistas and catapults to be the best, firing flaming ammo. The larger pieces of artillery need multiple buildings to make, and slow your armies down, so its far more practical to have cheap disposable equipment being built near your front line, rather than having to haul expensive cannons half way across the map. The bombards have a longer range than the elephant artillery, and catapults and ballistas are fairly fast firing and are accurate against elephants. I'd imagine ribaults would be perfect, if only the turks had them.

[Hoffman]

I was fighting as the Spanish, took the Holy Land on the first crusade and had 2 Citadels and 3 Cities by the time the Mongolians invaded. After the invasion my Crusader Armies fell rather rapidly to their onslaught and soon I only held the Citadel at Acre, whose Garrison slaughtered 4 Mongolian Stacks before the Timurids invaded... At this time, though I had perfected my Citadel Defenses.

Trebuchets, Sword and Buckler Men, and Pavise Crossbowmen.

As the Tiger Tanks, err I mean Artillery Elephants approached the walls the Trebuchets flung rotting carcasses and flaming balls at them, panicking them almost instantly and sending the entire Timurid army into retreat as they were trampled by their own Elephants. A few Feudal/Mailed knights finished them off.

In open battle, Spearmen holding a front line with Pavise Crossbowmen behind/infront with heavy infantry on the flanks and a Battalion of Cannon annihilate Mongolian/Timurid armies with relative ease, don't forget a couple units of Heavy Cav, Chivalric Knights at full charge make mincemeat of Mongol Heavy Lancers.

[Hadrian]

Originally Posted by Hoffman

In open battle, Spearmen holding a front line with Pavise Crossbowmen behind/infront with heavy infantry on the flanks and a Battalion of Cannon annihilate Mongolian/Timurid armies with relative ease, don't forget a couple units of Heavy Cav, Chivalric Knights at full charge make mincemeat of Mongol Heavy Lancers.

Hey Hoff, what you just described sounds very similar to one of our SPQR Roman Legion formations! So, after 1400 years, roughly the same formation with slightly different troop placement (switching the Heavy Inf. with the flank Spears) is still effective. Good tactics never die, they're just adapted to the new battlefield and take on different forms....

[Fenris_ek]

Yup, exactly the battle formation used by me. Voulgier - front blocks, armoured spearmen second line, then crossbows, flanks protected by dismounted knights. Cavalry in the rear to waste them when the time is right



PS. Oh, yes... mercenary turkopoles fled, after screening my army during deployment, and then taking serious beating on the flanks. Someone had to swallow those arrows...