Finnic Factions and Tribes

wilpuri · wilpuri

This thread is for discussion of the two Finnic factions of the mod: The People of Saaremaa (Estonian) and The Tavastians (Finnish) and any other issues regarding the surrounding Finnic tribes and their territories, settlements, units and buildings.

wilpuri · wilpuri

"Finland"

This is how I have divided Finland:

Here are the provinces and their populations, with the name of the province first and the name of the settlement in brackets:

Suomi (Turku): 40 000 <----- Controlled by Sweden in 1210
Satakunta (Kokemäki/Telja): 18 000
Kainuunmaa (Isonkyrö): 10 000
Karjala (Käkisalmi): 18 000
Savo (Sulkava): 6 000
Uusimaa (Linnamäki): 8 000
Vanaja (Rapola/Vanajanlinna): 16 000
Häme (Hollola): 11 000
Aunus/Vepsämaa (Aunus): 10 000
Bjarmia (Sortavala): 10 000

I might still change some of the settlements, if I come up with better options. Most of the names are modern place names, but they will have to do.

wilpuri · wilpuri

The Tavastian Tribe
(Hämäläiset in Finnish)

Here are just some ideas I've been playing around with, nothing carved in stone or anything.

Introduction

The Tavastians are a powerful and warlike tribe that inhabits the interior of Western Finland, with their heartlands in the Vanaja region. They are tribe unto their own, clearly separate from their neighbours, the Karelians and the Finns. Thus far the Tavastians have been left largely to their own devices and have been able to hunt and trade furs and other items they can acquire in the vast wilderness that they control, and organize seasonal raiding parties to inflict misery upon their neighbouring tribes. However, the Tavastians are finding that this might all change, as they are being harassed from all sides. The Karelians and the Novgorodians in the East are eager to extend their control westward, while the Finns to West have become largely Christian and are under the control of the Swedish kingdom, which in turn is eager to extend eastward. The Tavastians must unite their resources if they are to repel such serious threats to their homelands, their pagan faith and ultimately, their way of life.

Buildings

Trade Buildings

Trade Centre

Trade Centres were usually positioned close to water and trade routes for easy access. They were not always close to a settlement, in fact they were usually some distance from major settlements in fear of raiding parties, and acted as meeting places for merchants. At Trade Centres everything was for sale, from slaves to silverware, and they greatly increased the wealth of anyone in control of them.

Perhaps this could lead to – Large Trading Centre – To Regional Trading Centre?

Protected Trade Routes

Trade Routes were often protected by chains of fortifications along them, that would act as places of refuge during times of conflict. Located on hills with naturally formed obstacles, such as water and steep cliffs, these forts greatly improve the safety of the trade routes they are watching over, and thereby encourage more trade.

Perhaps this could lead to – Fortified trade routes etc?

Hunters’ Guild

Hunting is a useful way to pass time. It brings food on the table, it teaches skills necessary to survive in the wild and skills that are useful in warfare, but most important of all, it produces valuable items for trade. Such articles include furs of all kinds, walrus ivory, seal fat, and many other things. When these activities are organized, the profit is even greater.

Perhaps this could lead to – Great hunters guild – etc

Religious Buildings

Sacred Grove of Tapio

Tapio, with his female counter-part Mielikki, rule over the wilderness that stretches, limitless, all around the ancient Finn. They are present in the trees and the animals and the very granite foundations of these ancestral lands. Hunters and others alike are wise in making sacrifices to these mighty deities.

Increases trade (=better hunting luck, more furs?) Improves law and order and all that.

Sacred Grove of Ukko

Ukko is the so-called Over-God of the ancient Finnish deities, and he is the God of Weather and Thunder and the God of Fertility. He is worshipped and sacrifices are made for him to ensure better crops and to enhance productivity.

Sacred Grove of Turisas

As the War God of the Tavastians, Turisas could ensure victory in battle and would favour those who fought bravely without fear and who made the right sacrifices.

OTHER

Smithy

Smithies in Late Iron Age Finland are skilled artisans, who often travel from settlement to settlement, providing their services. Black smiths may choose to stay in larger settlements, where there is a greater demand for their skills. A permanent smith’s workshop will mean that weapons can be produced, maintained and repaired more effectively.

could lead to – Blacksmith to Master Blacksmith?

Käräjät

The Käräjät are a place and time where the local leaders and chieftains would convene to discuss communal matters, and to decide upon them. The Käräjät are often held on hills and holy sites, because so each man is bound to the truth, for the gods and the spirits are listening and falsehoods would anger them. The Käräjät are a very important part of the tribal legal procedures and communal matters in general, and are attended by wisemen, village elders and chieftains.

Tavastian Unit Roster

I think all Tavast units should have all the forest-fighting and ambush bonuses. Perhaps all of the Baltic Pagan peoples should have this?

Tribesmen

Tribesmen often form the majority of ancient Finnish war parties and serve as highly mobile light infantry. Armed with with javelins and spears and wearing light leather armour and furs for protection with a round shield in one arm, they are a force to be reckoned with. Their mobility provides them with a certain tactical flexibility, that foes easily underestimate. As free men they join war parties in hope for plentiful booty, and are a force to be reckoned with when defending their homelands.

The Chieftain’s Chosen Men

These men are the very elite of the ancient Finnish warrior class. Often relatives and the most trusted men of the Chieftain, they are fiercely loyal and often veterans of many battles. Armed with highly decorated quality swords often imported from overseas and with ango-throwing spears, which were much akin to the Roman Pila in function, they are better armed than most with metal helmets, strong shields and thick leather tunics. Yet, as medium infantry, they possess the advantage of mobility over heavily armoured opponents, and can make or break a battle.

Swordsmen

In Late Iron Age Finland, Swords were as much a weapon as they were symbols of status and wealth. Swordsmen belong to the wealthy upper-class of society, and can also afford better armour than most, although not at the expense of mobility. With reliable round shields for protection, these men make an excellent addition to any army.

Tavastian Hunters

The Tavastians control extensive stretches of wilderness mostly to the north, but also to the south, which is used as hunting grounds. Hunting expeditions could cover vast distances and take many months, and were ideal in honing the skills of the bow and silent movement in the forest to its peak. Armed with hunting bows and short swords, the Tavastian Hunters were lightly armoured and carried a light shield. They are at their best in wearing down the enemy at a distance and at setting ambushes for intruding armies. However, as lightly armed infantry, they must make use of their mobility as prolonged close combat against better armed and well-protected opponents will prove costly.

Tavastian Warband

These men are veterans of previous wars and raiding parties, and have the invaluable advantage of experience. They are armed in a typical Tavastian fashion with a couple of throwing spears, a wooden shield and war axes. Their armour is slightly stronger than that of ordinary Tribal Warriors and their battle experience gives them sounder judgement and thus they are expected to have better morale and to be more reliable in battle. They are a most worthy addition to the host of the Tavastian chieftains.

Some Ideas for Mercenaries

Karelian Raiders

The Karelians, along with other Finnic and Baltic peoples, raided the western shore line of the Baltic Sea. The Karelian raiders are a useful offensive unit, armed with battle-axes and shields. Their main advantages are their speed and their armour-piercing axes.

All feedback is welcome :wink:

ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople · ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople

Will Estonians be under Finnish-Ugric peoples or Baltic peoples?

Herkus · Herkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople

Will Estonians be under Finnish-Ugric peoples or Baltic peoples?

Estonians will be under "Finnic" people.

Zikko · Zikko

anyone know how Harjavalta was back then??? im from there and i would like if u put unit from harjavalta

wilpuri · wilpuri

Here are some weapons excavated from Finland:

And some buildings, etc

"Yard":

House:

Miniature reconstruction of hillfort:

Wall of a hillfort:

**Atterdag** · **Atterdag**

Perhabs you should add Poorvo as a city in southern Finland?

Estonia

1) Ösel/Saaremaa
2) Reval
3) Narva
4) Pernau
5) Wolmar

Inimesekene · Inimesekene

Atterdag , it's more on like

well... based on

and customized for 6 regions

i didn't want to drw in any names for the provs and stuff... my vrsion features Sakala, Ugandi, Virumaa, Saaremaa (ösel), Rävala, and Läänemaa (from the 2-nd pic, with the smaller ones merged into them)

.Seal · .Seal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inimesekene

Atterdag , it's more on like

well... based on

and customized for 6 regions

i didn't want to drw in any names for the provs and stuff... my vrsion features Sakala, Ugandi, Virumaa, Saaremaa (ösel), Rävala, and Läänemaa (from the 2-nd pic, with the smaller ones merged into them)

LIES! Well I dont know

(just ignore me)

**Atterdag** · **Atterdag**

Herkus is 5 provinces enough for Estonia?

Herkus · Herkus

there will be 6 for sure(hmm maybe 7)

**Atterdag** · **Atterdag**

If you got it sorted out then nevermind. It just so happens that I've come in possesion of a new map.

Inimesekene · Inimesekene

yes atterdag the islands are a separate province on my map too :\

Lithy · Lithy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inimesekene

yes atterdag the islands are a separate province on my map too :\

lol Iny ! At last you managed to register

now lets make big contribution to this forum!

Barbarian Warlord · Barbarian Warlord

i am finn, and i have to tell you something: in region map "Linnanmäki" is funfair in Helsinki

wilpuri · wilpuri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbarian Warlord

i am finn, and i have to tell you something: in region map "Linnanmäki" is funfair in Helsinki

Yes it is, while Linnamäki is a hillfort.

Fulmen · Fulmen

Perhaps you should have a look at these pages:

http://www.kaltio.fi/index.php?81

http://onet.tehonetti.fi/suomalaisuudenliitto/onet/vanhatsivut/kuningaskunta.htm

http://onet.tehonetti.fi/suomalaisuudenliitto/onet/vanhatsivut/Suomen-historia.htm

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/christy/32/frnjtre.html

Finland and Kvenland were powerful and organized kingdoms with it's own literature and also Finland was the basic kingdom in all of the Nordic countries (excluding Iceland, I suppose). All those false talks that the Finns of the time were just barbaric tribes is Swedophiled ******** that was taught to the people after Sweden got the grip of Finland in order to get the Finns to obey.

Please read those pages through carefully before you say anything against me.

Oh and by the way, Barbarian Warlord, the Karelian Isthmus, Ladoga Karelia, Border Karelia, Salla's and Kuusamo's eastern parts, Petsamo, Kalastajasaarento, Jäniskoski and the outer islands of the Gulf of Finland ARE FINNISH. They however are currently being occupied by Russian scum with our Finlandized crap politicians doing nothing about it.

The Treaty of Paris in 1947 was a forced treaty with Finland having no choice but to except the terms and thus is not viable. Besides that, it is also in direct contradiction with the Truce of Moscow in 1944. The present Stalinistic borders of 1947 are ILLEGAL and the borders of the Treaty of Tarto in 1920 are the only rightful current borders of Finland. You might want to put that into your signature, thanks.

wilpuri	March 23, 2006, 07:31 AM / Finnic Factions and Tribes	#1
Death to America! Posts: 8,738 Total Awards: 1	This thread is for discussion of the two Finnic factions of the mod: The People of Saaremaa (Estonian) and The Tavastians (Finnish) and any other issues regarding the surrounding Finnic tribes and their territories, settlements, units and buildings. Finns to the rescue!

wilpuri	March 23, 2006, 11:04 AM	#2
Death to America! Posts: 8,738 Total Awards: 1	"Finland" This is how I have divided Finland: Here are the provinces and their populations, with the name of the province first and the name of the settlement in brackets: Suomi (Turku): 40 000 <----- Controlled by Sweden in 1210 Satakunta (Kokemäki/Telja): 18 000 Kainuunmaa (Isonkyrö): 10 000 Karjala (Käkisalmi): 18 000 Savo (Sulkava): 6 000 Uusimaa (Linnamäki): 8 000 Vanaja (Rapola/Vanajanlinna): 16 000 Häme (Hollola): 11 000 Aunus/Vepsämaa (Aunus): 10 000 Bjarmia (Sortavala): 10 000 I might still change some of the settlements, if I come up with better options. Most of the names are modern place names, but they will have to do. Finns to the rescue! Last edited by wilpuri; April 03, 2006 at 10:19 AM.

wilpuri	March 23, 2006, 12:49 PM	#3
Death to America! Posts: 8,738 Total Awards: 1	The Tavastian Tribe (Hämäläiset in Finnish) Here are just some ideas I've been playing around with, nothing carved in stone or anything. Introduction The Tavastians are a powerful and warlike tribe that inhabits the interior of Western Finland, with their heartlands in the Vanaja region. They are tribe unto their own, clearly separate from their neighbours, the Karelians and the Finns. Thus far the Tavastians have been left largely to their own devices and have been able to hunt and trade furs and other items they can acquire in the vast wilderness that they control, and organize seasonal raiding parties to inflict misery upon their neighbouring tribes. However, the Tavastians are finding that this might all change, as they are being harassed from all sides. The Karelians and the Novgorodians in the East are eager to extend their control westward, while the Finns to West have become largely Christian and are under the control of the Swedish kingdom, which in turn is eager to extend eastward. The Tavastians must unite their resources if they are to repel such serious threats to their homelands, their pagan faith and ultimately, their way of life. Buildings Trade Buildings Trade Centre Trade Centres were usually positioned close to water and trade routes for easy access. They were not always close to a settlement, in fact they were usually some distance from major settlements in fear of raiding parties, and acted as meeting places for merchants. At Trade Centres everything was for sale, from slaves to silverware, and they greatly increased the wealth of anyone in control of them. Perhaps this could lead to – Large Trading Centre – To Regional Trading Centre? Protected Trade Routes Trade Routes were often protected by chains of fortifications along them, that would act as places of refuge during times of conflict. Located on hills with naturally formed obstacles, such as water and steep cliffs, these forts greatly improve the safety of the trade routes they are watching over, and thereby encourage more trade. Perhaps this could lead to – Fortified trade routes etc? Hunters’ Guild Hunting is a useful way to pass time. It brings food on the table, it teaches skills necessary to survive in the wild and skills that are useful in warfare, but most important of all, it produces valuable items for trade. Such articles include furs of all kinds, walrus ivory, seal fat, and many other things. When these activities are organized, the profit is even greater. Perhaps this could lead to – Great hunters guild – etc Religious Buildings Sacred Grove of Tapio Tapio, with his female counter-part Mielikki, rule over the wilderness that stretches, limitless, all around the ancient Finn. They are present in the trees and the animals and the very granite foundations of these ancestral lands. Hunters and others alike are wise in making sacrifices to these mighty deities. Increases trade (=better hunting luck, more furs?) Improves law and order and all that. Sacred Grove of Ukko Ukko is the so-called Over-God of the ancient Finnish deities, and he is the God of Weather and Thunder and the God of Fertility. He is worshipped and sacrifices are made for him to ensure better crops and to enhance productivity. Sacred Grove of Turisas As the War God of the Tavastians, Turisas could ensure victory in battle and would favour those who fought bravely without fear and who made the right sacrifices. OTHER Smithy Smithies in Late Iron Age Finland are skilled artisans, who often travel from settlement to settlement, providing their services. Black smiths may choose to stay in larger settlements, where there is a greater demand for their skills. A permanent smith’s workshop will mean that weapons can be produced, maintained and repaired more effectively. could lead to – Blacksmith to Master Blacksmith? Käräjät The Käräjät are a place and time where the local leaders and chieftains would convene to discuss communal matters, and to decide upon them. The Käräjät are often held on hills and holy sites, because so each man is bound to the truth, for the gods and the spirits are listening and falsehoods would anger them. The Käräjät are a very important part of the tribal legal procedures and communal matters in general, and are attended by wisemen, village elders and chieftains. Tavastian Unit Roster I think all Tavast units should have all the forest-fighting and ambush bonuses. Perhaps all of the Baltic Pagan peoples should have this? Tribesmen Tribesmen often form the majority of ancient Finnish war parties and serve as highly mobile light infantry. Armed with with javelins and spears and wearing light leather armour and furs for protection with a round shield in one arm, they are a force to be reckoned with. Their mobility provides them with a certain tactical flexibility, that foes easily underestimate. As free men they join war parties in hope for plentiful booty, and are a force to be reckoned with when defending their homelands. The Chieftain’s Chosen Men These men are the very elite of the ancient Finnish warrior class. Often relatives and the most trusted men of the Chieftain, they are fiercely loyal and often veterans of many battles. Armed with highly decorated quality swords often imported from overseas and with ango-throwing spears, which were much akin to the Roman Pila in function, they are better armed than most with metal helmets, strong shields and thick leather tunics. Yet, as medium infantry, they possess the advantage of mobility over heavily armoured opponents, and can make or break a battle. Swordsmen In Late Iron Age Finland, Swords were as much a weapon as they were symbols of status and wealth. Swordsmen belong to the wealthy upper-class of society, and can also afford better armour than most, although not at the expense of mobility. With reliable round shields for protection, these men make an excellent addition to any army. Tavastian Hunters The Tavastians control extensive stretches of wilderness mostly to the north, but also to the south, which is used as hunting grounds. Hunting expeditions could cover vast distances and take many months, and were ideal in honing the skills of the bow and silent movement in the forest to its peak. Armed with hunting bows and short swords, the Tavastian Hunters were lightly armoured and carried a light shield. They are at their best in wearing down the enemy at a distance and at setting ambushes for intruding armies. However, as lightly armed infantry, they must make use of their mobility as prolonged close combat against better armed and well-protected opponents will prove costly. Tavastian Warband These men are veterans of previous wars and raiding parties, and have the invaluable advantage of experience. They are armed in a typical Tavastian fashion with a couple of throwing spears, a wooden shield and war axes. Their armour is slightly stronger than that of ordinary Tribal Warriors and their battle experience gives them sounder judgement and thus they are expected to have better morale and to be more reliable in battle. They are a most worthy addition to the host of the Tavastian chieftains. Some Ideas for Mercenaries Karelian Raiders The Karelians, along with other Finnic and Baltic peoples, raided the western shore line of the Baltic Sea. The Karelian raiders are a useful offensive unit, armed with battle-axes and shields. Their main advantages are their speed and their armour-piercing axes. All feedback is welcome :wink: Finns to the rescue! Last edited by wilpuri; April 05, 2006 at 08:36 AM.

ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople	March 25, 2006, 09:42 AM	#4
Drummer and Fifer Posts: 124	Will Estonians be under Finnish-Ugric peoples or Baltic peoples?

Zikko	March 27, 2006, 08:17 AM	#6
Drummer and Fifer Posts: 167	anyone know how Harjavalta was back then??? im from there and i would like if u put unit from harjavalta

wilpuri	March 29, 2006, 09:30 AM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#7
Death to America! Posts: 8,738 Total Awards: 1	Here are some weapons excavated from Finland: And some buildings, etc "Yard": House: Miniature reconstruction of hillfort: Wall of a hillfort: Finns to the rescue!

Atterdag	March 31, 2006, 12:35 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#8
Kumonosu-jō Artifex Posts: 5,817 Total Awards: 4	Perhabs you should add Poorvo as a city in southern Finland? Estonia 1) Ösel/Saaremaa 2) Reval 3) Narva 4) Pernau 5) Wolmar Granted Lettre de Marque by King Henry V - Spurs given by imb39 SicilianVespers : Timothy Leary : Garnier : Adar : Konstantin Alexander : thrashing_mad Сканија је Данска Strategos : Former Chief Librarian : Opifex of TWC Last edited by Atterdag; March 31, 2006 at 01:25 PM.

Inimesekene	March 31, 2006, 04:49 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#9
Light Infantryman Posts: 6	Atterdag , it's more on like well... based on and customized for 6 regions i didn't want to drw in any names for the provs and stuff... my vrsion features Sakala, Ugandi, Virumaa, Saaremaa (ösel), Rävala, and Läänemaa (from the 2-nd pic, with the smaller ones merged into them) Last edited by Inimesekene; March 31, 2006 at 04:56 PM.

Atterdag	April 05, 2006, 04:01 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#11
Kumonosu-jō Artifex Posts: 5,817 Total Awards: 4	Herkus is 5 provinces enough for Estonia? Granted Lettre de Marque by King Henry V - Spurs given by imb39 SicilianVespers : Timothy Leary : Garnier : Adar : Konstantin Alexander : thrashing_mad Сканија је Данска Strategos : Former Chief Librarian : Opifex of TWC

Herkus	April 05, 2006, 04:10 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#12
Drum Major Posts: 542	there will be 6 for sure(hmm maybe 7)

Atterdag	April 05, 2006, 04:43 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#13
Kumonosu-jō Artifex Posts: 5,817 Total Awards: 4	If you got it sorted out then nevermind. It just so happens that I've come in possesion of a new map. Granted Lettre de Marque by King Henry V - Spurs given by imb39 SicilianVespers : Timothy Leary : Garnier : Adar : Konstantin Alexander : thrashing_mad Сканија је Данска Strategos : Former Chief Librarian : Opifex of TWC

Inimesekene	April 06, 2006, 10:33 AM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#14
Light Infantryman Posts: 6	yes atterdag the islands are a separate province on my map too :\

Barbarian Warlord	October 08, 2006, 07:12 AM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#16
Light Infantryman Posts: 2	i am finn, and i have to tell you something: in region map "Linnanmäki" is funfair in Helsinki Some day Petsamo, Porkkala, Suursaaret and other Karelia are finnish! Last edited by Barbarian Warlord; October 08, 2006 at 07:52 AM.

Fulmen	March 01, 2007, 06:56 PM / Re: Finnic Factions and Tribes	#18
Light Infantryman Posts: 2	Perhaps you should have a look at these pages: http://www.kaltio.fi/index.php?81 http://onet.tehonetti.fi/suomalaisuudenliitto/onet/vanhatsivut/kuningaskunta.htm http://onet.tehonetti.fi/suomalaisuudenliitto/onet/vanhatsivut/Suomen-historia.htm http://victorian.fortunecity.com/christy/32/frnjtre.html Finland and Kvenland were powerful and organized kingdoms with it's own literature and also Finland was the basic kingdom in all of the Nordic countries (excluding Iceland, I suppose). All those false talks that the Finns of the time were just barbaric tribes is Swedophiled ******** that was taught to the people after Sweden got the grip of Finland in order to get the Finns to obey. Please read those pages through carefully before you say anything against me. Oh and by the way, Barbarian Warlord, the Karelian Isthmus, Ladoga Karelia, Border Karelia, Salla's and Kuusamo's eastern parts, Petsamo, Kalastajasaarento, Jäniskoski and the outer islands of the Gulf of Finland ARE FINNISH. They however are currently being occupied by Russian scum with our Finlandized crap politicians doing nothing about it. The Treaty of Paris in 1947 was a forced treaty with Finland having no choice but to except the terms and thus is not viable. Besides that, it is also in direct contradiction with the Truce of Moscow in 1944. The present Stalinistic borders of 1947 are ILLEGAL and the borders of the Treaty of Tarto in 1920 are the only rightful current borders of Finland. You might want to put that into your signature, thanks. Last edited by Fulmen; March 01, 2007 at 07:15 PM.

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