The Collision of Mighty Empires

[Zenith Darksea]

First off, exciting thread title, no?

Now, to my point. I have noticed, while playing Vanilla RTW, Rome: Total Realism (am I allowed to name other mods?) and even (though to a lesser extent) with Mundus Magnus 2, that the interaction between various factions really wasn't satisfying. For instance, if I'm Rome, I want to be faced with Gauls raiding into the heart of Italy or Hannibal leading a mighty army against my cities; I don't just want to see the Carthaginians blockade one of my ports with a single bireme. That latter is just not exciting, or particularly enjoyable, and just ends up with me annihilating their empire and then feeling guilty about it because it was so easy, like kicking a dog or something. The only time when I haven't really had this problem was on Mundus Magnus when playing as Armenia (everyone wants a piece of you then!). But this problem seems to be intensified when the Senate is removed and Rome becomes one faction (I do agree with this change, incidentally), as there is no artificial impetus for conquest. I found in Rome: Total Realism that other nations were perfectly happy to conquer each other, but none ever really came after me. So, has Europa Barbarorum done anything to make the campaign game (as well as the battles) more interesting in this respect? Can we expect more interaction between empires, perhaps more complex diplomacy and, dare I say it, more war?

[Khelvan]

This is primarily controlled through the campaign difficulty setting, to be frank. If you have it on "medium" you won't see a lot of AI factions attacking you very strongly - if you have it on "very hard" you will.

There isn't much we can do to direct the AI to conquest, though we try to give it help.

[mike^_^]

will the scripts be utilized to prevent the AI and rebels from going bankrupt? this is especially important for the rebels, which is why I assume they will be, but I haven't seen this talked about before

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, even on very hard I've found the AI can be a little lacklustre at times. And there are far too many bandits in very hard.

[Faenaris]

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

Well, even on very hard I've found the AI can be a little lacklustre at times. And there are far too many bandits in very hard.

Also, the AI has an artificial economy bonus on Very Hard. I want to be able to starve them to death once in a while. Just try playing SPQR on VH campaign mode ... They just keep comming!

[Zenith Darksea]

Will diplomacy be deepened in any way? Obviously there are massive hardcode constraints, but I've noticed people making nice little additions like the Client Kingdoms mod. Will we see any interesting innovations like this (or not, as the case may be) in Europa Barbarorum?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Things are probably going to be a little different in our latest build since unit recruitment has changed up a lot, but we haven't gotten decades in on testing this newest build yet. But I'll say that even on Medium/Medium on this newest build that it's not been easy for me to do anything. There have been some AI changes recently too that make things a *ton* more realistic and difficult in my opinion, but they are really simple things (but ones that I have no idea if other mods are doing). When I played before this most recent build I would always find it easy to expand by taking a few rebel provinces first, and then get strong enough to take on some factions. But now it's much more difficult to even get out of the starting gates. I can't answer for what differences are like after a few decades yet though, but there's hope!

[Zenith Darksea]

Thanks for your answers guys. While I'm sure you've heard this a million times already, Europa Barbarorum is the mod to which I'm most looking forward (you just have the edge over Ran no Jidai, but only because of the VAST amount of work that you've put into this).

[Lesten]

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

...ends up with me annihilating their empire and then feeling guilty about it because it was so easy, like kicking a dog or something.

What kind of dog? Some can be really big and nasty. ... right, carry on.

[~Corsair#01~]

I found that if you play on VH/VH and alter the unit costs in export_descr_unit.txt so your troops and mercenaries (but not the AI's) are 3 times as expensive to build and maintain, the game can become quite challenging indeed. This is pretty much the easiest way to make things difficult for yourself, and works with every mod under the sun.

I'm playing a vanilla Spain campaign atm, and I'm fighting a seesaw war in France VS Britain and Gaul. There's been several occassions where one amazing victory in a battle was the only thing that kept my country from extermination. There's nothing I can do about the battle AI, alas.

[crownsteler]

I found that if you play on VH/VH and alter the unit costs in export_descr_unit.txt so your troops and mercenaries (but not the AI's) are 3 times as expensive to build and maintain, the game can become quite challenging indeed. This is pretty much the easiest way to make things difficult for yourself, and works with every mod under the sun.

Only using low or medium tax has pretty much the same effect, but safes you from having to go through al the text files

[SomeJedi]

I think your problem has to do with the load/save bug. The AI becomes passive, regardless of the difficulty setting, and the game thereafter becomes a cake walk.

I think the closest thing to a perfect game will be a 1.5 compatable EB. Or, if other patches come out that help the game, that mixed with EB.

[Sinuhet]

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

Will diplomacy be deepened in any way? Obviously there are massive hardcode constraints, but I've noticed people making nice little additions like the Client Kingdoms mod. Will we see any interesting innovations like this (or not, as the case may be) in Europa Barbarorum?

Ave Zenith Darksea!

I am not sure, if it is the solution you are seeking for, but I have made something in the above-mentioned sense for the SPQR 4.6. I called it Scripted diplomacy.

The main purpose was to create some substitution for the removed diplomats (their behaviour is sometimes, as it is known, really annoying - massive bribing, instability of dealed agreements etc.). But this solution is going further. Via of Show me scripting it is feasible to define the trends for mutual behaviour of factions in various situations of foreign policy, and what is maybe still more important - if you define good a balance of power for the respective factions (I implemented this via some changes in EDU.txt and EDB.txt files and called this Balanced factions survival part of my mod) this behaviour is also relatively more stable then in vanilla with diplomats.

These were pros. As for the cons of this solution: 1. some inconvenience for the user and dependence on the active clicking on the Show me button - but these things dont matter too much, in my opinion, 2. and more serious, this solution is extremely time consuming to implement (it is not about some special techniques of scripting - they are simple, but about the complexity of all combinations of mutual factions relations in various situations and contexts of global "world foreign policy"). If you give to this still a fact that this is highly map-dependent (or more precisely speaking, script files in campaign folder dependent) and from this reason relatively highly rigid as for the eventual future changes and, of course, between different mods mutually incompatible, one must really thoroughly think about, if it is of worth to implement for his mod.

I dont know if it will be the way for the EB team. But as for me, I am happy I have finished it. It is nice, good functioning, extending possibilities of the SPQR, but after I will still finish the part for the Human Player, I dont want to see something similar for long time on my working table.

Anyway, I would be glad, if it will be used as much as possible, so you can try it and before the EB will be completed to enjoy the SPQR mod. It is worth of it, believe me, I have been also sticking on the other mod (RTR 6.0 as Carthagian) before I have tried SPQR 4.0. Now the RTW = SPQR for me, but it is maybe only my personal preference.

Bye to all Sinuhet

[Leão magno]

Great diplomacy adds... I agree the game is too easy and tends to get easier after loading a game, I have found the AI to be strong against you only in the beginning, but after a victory or two... well you know, you became a unstopable juggernaut! I would like to have client states, vassals, alieds and more since this kind of diference in treatment was part of Romans power! But I know how hard coded it is so I can only hope tha CA guys are watching and became with some implementation. ih ih ih Say about dream hun!