End the Hatred - homophobia

[the Black Prince]

for all the love and tolerance of the christian message, for all the talk of multiculturalism and acceptance from both left and right wing groups... hatred still exists on many forms, on many grounds...

with all the european vs arab and christian vs muslim its easy to forget the sort of damage that white anglo/saxon christians are happy to deal out to there own... to people who are also white, christian, church going...

to people who's only difference is that they are gay.

there is clearly somethnig seriously wrong with the group and individual mentality of certain parts of our society when it is seen as ok to go rounfd beating people up for whatever reason, seen as ok to go round inciting and encouraging violence against groups of people who's only crime is being different to you.

today, a good friend of mine, an australian lad, was beaten up by a group of kids wielding cricket bats in melbourne... i can't imagine what kind of thought process you must possess to smash sdomeone around the face with a cricket bat, someone you don;t really know and hardly talk to, someone who has done nothing to you

and you know what makes it worse?
the lad was only 14.

end the hatred - now

[Ummon]

People are always looking for an occasion to feel "normal" which implies that they are better than those who are "not normal".

Of course this is nonsense, and violence towards homosexuals is wrong.

You look very shocked. I of course wish to express my hope that your friend will recover soon.

[JP226]

end the hatred... ok, but do you need to convey the message with a swipe against christians? No need to be a bigot when you post.

here i was even nice enough to redo your post:

there is clearly somethnig seriously wrong with the group and individual mentality of certain parts of our society when it is seen as ok to go around beating people up for whatever reason, seen as ok to go round inciting and encouraging violence against groups of people who's only crime is being different than you.

today, a good friend of mine, an australian, was beaten up by a group of kids wielding baseball bats in melbourne... i can't imagine what kind of thought process you must possess to smash sdomeone around the face with a bat, someone you don;t really know and hardly talk to, someone who has done nothing to you

and you know what makes it worse?
the kid was only 14.

end the hatred - now

I got across the same message without being an *** towards christians

[Ummon]

It is not a christian attitude in truth, it's ubiquitous.

Although he was beaten because he is homosexual apparently, and this information should be kept in mind.

[Gubbins]

Originally Posted by Ummon

It is not a christian attitude in truth, it's ubiquitous.

Although he was beaten because he is homosexual apparently, and this information should be kept in mind.

The Bible disagrees with you!

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death"

[Atheist Peace]

Yes homophobia should stop, and it is mostly a christian thing once you look past teenagers. Christians, or at least the relgious right, at least in the US seem obsessed with opressing gays for no reason but because they decided that the bible says they should. This topic isnt about that really though. It is horrible what happened to your friend tpb, i hope he recovers as well.

Homophobia is just a way for ignorant people to cope with what they dont understand and what they are afraid of. I hear this crap all the time at school and what is even stupider is that a couple of ignorant :wub:s were saying i was gay because i supported kerry, they think that is an insult and the way they associate things like that is just stupid. Just because someone is gay does not mean they aren't human and they shouldnt have the same rights. It is sort of understandable with kids because they arent expected to be very mature but this gay marriage stuff, come on. It is ridiculous to say that they shouldnt get married and it is just the same as taking away someone's rights because of race. "Seperate but equal"...yup let's give 'em civil unions.

sorry if parts of that dont make sense im like exhausted

[Drexxus Maximus]

Originally Posted by Atheist Peace

Yes homophobia should stop, and it is mostly a christian thing once you look past teenagers. Christians, or at least the relgious right, at least in the US seem obsessed with opressing gays for no reason but because they decided that the bible says they should. This topic isnt about that really though. It is horrible what happened to your friend tpb, i hope he recovers as well.

Homophobia is just a way for ignorant people to cope with what they dont understand and what they are afraid of. I hear this crap all the time at school and what is even stupider is that a couple of ignorant :wub:s were saying i was gay because i supported kerry, they think that is an insult and the way they associate things like that is just stupid. Just because someone is gay does not mean they aren't human and they shouldnt have the same rights. It is sort of understandable with kids because they arent expected to be very mature but this gay marriage stuff, come on. It is ridiculous to say that they shouldnt get married and it is just the same as taking away someone's rights because of race. "Seperate but equal"...yup let's give 'em civil unions.

sorry if parts of that dont make sense im like exhausted

Made sense to me, and I totally agree with ya.

When is this world gonna just grow the hell up? Let people live their lives ANY way they want as long as no one is hurt by it. And dont give me this "But think of the children" BS either. You're either born gay or you're not, it's not going to effect them whatsoever.

[the Black Prince]

sorry, my haste in posting neglected details... today is sunday... he was passing a church, the boys had just come out from service and were going to play cricket before lunch form what i understand...

can you blame me for blaming christians? lets face it, the only people who have ever had a go at me for being gay is the christian union on campus, the islamic society and jewish association have no problems with us... and us with them... hell, last years president was a jew...
but its the christians who cause us the problems...


btw gubbins what has the old testament got to do with christians? the rules in levitcus were the rules to keep yuorself frtee from defilement so you could enter the inner temple and the kingdom of heaven.
christians need to do neither... upon christs death, the veil in the temple was split. christians need only follow his commandments

and jesus preached a ministry of love, not hatred.
the only people jesus ever condemed were, ironically enough, those who condemmed others, strange how the christians fail to note that part of the bible.

[Shawkhan]

...I think that there is a death penalty in some muslim countries for homosexual acts. I seem to remember a recent case in Egypt where the perpetrators were sentenced to death.
...This is not a personal problem with me. I figure the more gays, the more women left over for me.
...On a more serious note, I think that many men feel an unconscious affinity for gays, and in a strong reaction/repugnance to these feelings, feel a need to take some similarly strong action in denial of these feelings. As the saying goes, 'denial is not only a river in Egypt', in order to bring my brief discussion full circle.

[LegionnaireX]

I guess sometimes I could be considered homophobic. I don't have a problem with people being gay, its just the behavior that comes with it that I think is weird, which it is. But I certainly would never go beating gay people up because of my beliefs.

Yes homophobia should stop, and it is mostly a christian thing once you look past teenagers. Christians, or at least the relgious right, at least in the US seem obsessed with opressing gays for no reason but because they decided that the bible says they should. This topic isnt about that really though. It is horrible what happened to your friend tpb, i hope he recovers as well.

From a religious standpoint people do not agree with gay marriage, not gay people. Marraige is a term describing the holy union of a man and a women, not a man and a man. Now from a legal perspective gay couples do not have the same rights as married couples including hospital visitations and stuff relating to that. I believe that gay couples should be given a legal status, but it shouldn't be called marriage nor take place in a church.

[SonofSparta]

Yes although nearly every man will deny it ,there is a large majority of the male population who at some point "can" have sexual feeling's for other men, your certainly right shawkhan ,in saying that this add's to the Existing homophobia , although in the Media and popular television culture being "Gay" is almost Chic ,the reality is very different ,there is still alot of rampant Bigotry toward's gay people where i live in Ireland ,the term Gay as athiest peace say's above is used as an insult in everyday language.

[VandalCarthage]

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death"

The Bible is only partially representative of Christian beliefs. It's major sections were included because their particular advocates were powerful at the time of major new additions. THAT's why there are a good many contradictions - it's authors were of varying philosophies and ethics.

sorry, my haste in posting neglected details... today is sunday... he was passing a church, the boys had just come out from service and were going to play cricket before lunch form what i understand...

You don't have to be a bigot to logically reason out that it's largely a misguided christian/jewish/islamic ethic that opposes homosexuals. Not necessarilly white, but how many atheists or Buddhists go out for the blood of homosexuals? A good many groups of Judeo-Christians are generous and loving towards these folks, but another possibly smaller, just louder group of them is horribly opposed. One cannot refer to 'Christians' as a whole or united group, they never have been - and rightfully so. Back in the Byzantine Empire, sects of christians fought each other just as rabidly as the might fight the so called 'infidel.' Mid-western Judeo-Christians probably have a greater tendancy towards anti-homosexual feelings because they've enjoyed a more conservative upbringing, while more liberal east-coast judeo-christians are the opposite (I'm ethnically Jewish from the east-coast, and my family is mystified that anyone cares enough to even have a strong opinion either way). This is a horrible generalization, and hardly a rule, but the fact is, the majority of anti-homosexual movements are of a judeo-christian ethic. There could be two reasons for this:

1) Judeo-Christians are predisposed to dislike homosexuals. Possible, but I don't think so.
2) There are more judeo-christians, by orders of ten, then any other group in America or Australia, or places where you aren't legally required to dislike gays and subdue your wife. I believe this to be the case.

Perhaps one out of ten people in every denomination is anti-gay. That means that in Western countries judeo-christians would form the majority of the group.

It's not bigoted, it's just a logical application of statistics

[Carousel]

end the hatred... ok, but do you need to convey the message with a swipe against christians? No need to be a bigot when you post.

Well, I was/am a christian. I cant really figure it out to be honest. I follow the teachings of Jesus, but I quite frankly cant stomach the catholic church (which I was raised as) and their complete intolerance of designated (dare I say 'targeted'?) social groups, including homosexuals.

So by definition I'm a christian, but perhaps that will conjur false ideas of me in peoples heads. However, I did have hopes that a more liberal pope would have been elected but alas thats a different conversation.

Anyway, treat other people the way you want to be treated. Thats how I live my life.

The attack on that kid is despicable, regardless of where and when.

[Honeohvovohaestse]

Originally Posted by VandalCarthage

The Bible is only partially representative of Christian beliefs. It's major sections were included because their particular advocates were powerful at the time of major new additions. THAT's why there are a good many contradictions - it's authors were of varying philosophies and ethics.



You don't have to be a bigot to logically reason out that it's largely a misguided christian/jewish/islamic ethic that opposes homosexuals. Not necessarilly white, but how many atheists or Buddhists go out for the blood of homosexuals? A good many groups of Judeo-Christians are generous and loving towards these folks, but another possibly smaller, just louder group of them is horribly opposed. One cannot refer to 'Christians' as a whole or united group, they never have been - and rightfully so. Back in the Byzantine Empire, sects of christians fought each other just as rabidly as the might fight the so called 'infidel.' Mid-western Judeo-Christians probably have a greater tendancy towards anti-homosexual feelings because they've enjoyed a more conservative upbringing, while more liberal east-coast judeo-christians are the opposite (I'm ethnically Jewish from the east-coast, and my family is mystified that anyone cares enough to even have a strong opinion either way). This is a horrible generalization, and hardly a rule, but the fact is, the majority of anti-homosexual movements are of a judeo-christian ethic. There could be two reasons for this:

1) Judeo-Christians are predisposed to dislike homosexuals. Possible, but I don't think so.
2) There are more judeo-christians, by orders of ten, then any other group in America or Australia, or places where you aren't legally required to dislike gays and subdue your wife. I believe this to be the case.

Perhaps one out of ten people in every denomination is anti-gay. That means that in Western countries judeo-christians would form the majority of the group.

It's not bigoted, it's just a logical application of statistics

Sounds like apologetics......

"From a religious standpoint people do not agree with gay marriage, not gay people. Marraige is a term describing the holy union of a man and a women, not a man and a man. Now from a legal perspective gay couples do not have the same rights as married couples including hospital visitations and stuff relating to that. I believe that gay couples should be given a legal status, but it shouldn't be called marriage nor take place in a church"

Excuse me, according to YOUR religious beliefs. The churches should decide that, and marriage, yea it's called marriage in places and by people who do accept it. My dictionary does not have the definition you're looking for.

[Lord Tomyris]

Originally Posted by Shawkhan

...On a more serious note, I think that many men feel an unconscious affinity for gays, and in a strong reaction/repugnance to these feelings, feel a need to take some similarly strong action in denial of these feelings. As the saying goes, 'denial is not only a river in Egypt', in order to bring my brief discussion full circle.

Using this logic you could say the same about paedophiles and those who hate them (and most people do). But yes, homophobia is not a good thing in today's society.

[Honeohvovohaestse]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomyris

Using this logic you could say the same about paedophiles and those who hate them (and most people do). But yes, homophobia is not a good thing in today's society.

FAulty arguement as that damages a child.

[GodNeptune]

I think that Christianity is largely responsible for the extreme homophobia that exists in the western world today. I remember a few years ago when this gay college kid was murdered and some Christian groups held an anti-gay rally near where his funeral was taking place. They held signs that said despicable things like "he is in hell" and "got what he deserved". It seems to me that many Christians have this conception of homosexuality as being the ultimate sin and believe that AIDS is god's wrath against homosexuals. The last time that I ever went to church I remember hearing this lecture about how god depises gays and that he created AIDS to punish them.

[danzig]

Originally Posted by GodNeptune

I think that Christianity is largely responsible for the extreme homophobia that exists in the western world today. I remember a few years ago when this gay college kid was murdered and some Christian groups held an anti-gay rally near where his funeral was taking place. They held signs that said despicable things like "he is in hell" and "got what he deserved". It seems to me that many Christians have this conception of homosexuality as being the ultimate sin and believe that AIDS is god's wrath against homosexuals. The last time that I ever went to church I remember hearing this lecture about how god depises gays and that he created AIDS to punish them.

That is just an element of radical, stupid christians not the religion as a whole. Hell look at the idiotic 'preacher' running around protesting the funerals of dead soliders from Iraq. It is no more an indication of all christians then a suicide bomber is of Islam. You are going to have radicals, extremist, idiots and ignorant people in every group from religions to animal rights to enviromentalist and unfortunately since they are so far to the extreme they generally get more exposure from the shock of their actions. We just seem to be a screwed up bunch of creatures, a radical extremist element would form from a group of circus clowns if they all got together.

To end hatred of homosexuality you'd have to end hatred of everything. For every group, for every belief, for every idea there will be a counter group who's purpose is to hate it and attack it. Crazy humans.

[Lord Rahl]

Well, it's about damn time I say something so I will.

I'm fine with homosexuals. They are human and as long as they don't force their ways on me. I have very few gay friends and tBP is one of them but there is one thing that I can't stand about them:

The world for the most part has accepted gays as normal people. The problem is that gays just want more and more. First they wanted to be known, then accepted, and now they want to be lifted high and have their lifestyles praised.

I'm fine with gays but once they want me to praise their way of life I say, "No."

[Honeohvovohaestse]

Originally Posted by Lord Rahl

Well, it's about damn time I say something so I will.

I'm fine with homosexuals. They are human and as long as they don't force their ways on me. I have very few gay friends and tBP is one of them but there is one thing that I can't stand about them:

The world for the most part has accepted gays as normal people. The problem is that gays just want more and more. First they wanted to be known, then accepted, and now they want to be lifted high and have their lifestyles praised.

I'm fine with gays but once they want me to praise their way of life I say, "No."

I've never seen any such praising, I'd just like that my personal life be left alone. You don't want me in your bedroom, I don't want you in mine. :original: