Hardcoded limits

[Seleukos]

(This thread is a duplicate of Simetrical's thread here, incorporating research by many individuals. The threads will be maintained in duplicate, with all changes in one being made to the other as well.)

This thread is devoted to discovering the hard-coded limits for various moddable text-file things. For instance, the game doesn't accept unit sizes of greater than 60, or an HP value of more than 15, or more than 500 units. This information is critical to would-be modders who may want to, for instance, double all units' HP—this would lead to elephants being completely screwed over, since their HP would be effectively half of the entered value.

The format of the entries will be as follows:

Stat: Min [number], max [number]. [How we know the min limit], [how we know the max limit].

If you have a stat to contribute, or have a better or more specific source for the limit than is stated, please post! For instance, I can't remember where I saw any of the dev statements that I cite, or where someone posted evidence for any other limits. Specific cites help!

If you plan to do testing, obviously some things are more important than others. Things like attack, charge, and range values are critical, whereas the max rank spacing is pretty unimportant. Still, everything helps to make this a better document.

descr_model_battle.txt
Overall model number: Min ?, max 255. Experimentation.

descr_rebel_factions.txt
Units per event: Min 1?, max 20 for non-regional events at least. Experimentation. Extras cause error message with -show_err but possibly no other ill effects.

descr_sm_factions.txt
Faction limit: Min ?, max 21. Experimentation. Note that the maximum must include, for unexpanded RTW, one rebel faction, four Roman factions (including a Senate and the Roman alliance), six barbarian factions, four Greek factions, three Eastern factions, two Carthaginian factions, and an Egyptian faction, as far as faction-culture correspondence goes. In BI the culture restrictions and Roman alliance/Senate limitations are lifted, but there still must presumably be a rebel faction. Fewer factions than 21 are possible.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt
ExcludedAncillaries: Min 0, max 3. Default usage, experimentation. Extras cause CTD.
Effects: Min 0, max 8. Assumption, experimentation. Extras make it impossible to gain ancillary through a trigger and cause erratic effects if an existing ancillary is transferred.

export_descr_buildings.txt
Hidden resources: Min 1?, max 63 or 64 (not sure which). Extras cause a CTD, not including rome causes a CTD (I think), not including italy prevents Marian reforms (I think). Experimentation, experimentation. But see here for a way to overcome the limitation.
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Experimentation. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation. Extras CTD.
Upgrades per building level: Min 0, max 8. Default usage, logic based on previous. Levels can only be upgraded to levels listed after them on the "levels" line.
Units recruitable in a given city, not counting agents: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation. Extras CTD.

export_descr_character_trait.txt
Levels per trait: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation.
Points required for a threshold: Min 1, max ≥ 600. Assumption, experimentation.
Points assignable per trigger: Min 0, max ≥ 100. Assumption, experimentation.
Antitraits: Min 0, max 10 (1.2)/20? (1.6). Default usage, experimentation/experimentation.
Affects lines per trigger: Min 1, Max 11. Assumption, experimentation

export_descr_unit.txt
Overall unit number: Min ?, max 500. JeromeGrasdyke. Extras CTD?
Units per faction: Min ?, max 100. Experimentation. Extras don't appear for custom battles, but otherwise function normally.
Units buildable per city: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation. Extras CTD.
Men per non-general unit: Min 6, max 60. Experimentation. Extras CTD?
Men per general unit: Min ?, max 31. Experimentation. Extras ignored, even if they come from another source (Influence, personal security, or faction leader/heir status).
Extras per unit: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation.
Collision mass: Min ?, max ≥ 100. Default usage.
Number of officers: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Number of mount effects: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Mount bonus: ?
Number of attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Number of formations: Min 1, max 2. Text file description.
HP: Min ?, max 15. Dev. Extra considered 15.
Attack factor: Min 1 (missile), max 63. Experimentation, user interface. Zero results in no missile attack. Extra considered 63.
Charge bonus: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Missile range: Min 20 (at least for javelins), max special. Experimentation, experimentation. Every projectile has an effective maximum range as well, indirectly determined by the velocity and angle ranges specified in descr_projectile_new.txt; increasing this file's range sufficiently will require you to increase the velocity and/or angle range in that file for the change to work properly. Later versions of RTW give an error message if the velocity doesn't allow the stated range. More range than is possible will be effectively reduced to the maximum possible for the velocity.
Missile ammo: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation (and guess). Note that ammunition is determined per man, not per unit, and it apparently counts even men who don't actually use the ammo, such as drivers of chariots (experimentation). Ammunition use is tracked per unit (I'm pretty sure), not per man, so if only half of your unit is firing at their target, they'll effectively have twice the ammo.
Undocumented kill rate variable: ?
Number of weapon attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Armor factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Defensive skill factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Shield factor: Min 0, max 31. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 31.
Stat_heat: ?
Terrain modifiers: ?
Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.
Charge distance: ?
Fire delay: ?
Turns to build: Min 0, max 244. Experimentation, experimentation. Extra ignored.

map_regions.txt
Resources per province: Min 0?, max 9? Assumption, experimentation. Extras ignored?

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200. Experimentation.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. JeromeGrasdyke. Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).

Models
Number of faces/polys: Min ?, max 20,000 (for campaign-map models).

[Julius_Caesar]

Seleukos, I have a few ammendments

Originally Posted by Seleucos I Nicator

descr_model_battle.txt
Overall model number: Min ?, max 255.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt
ExcludedAncillaries: Min 0, max 3. Default usage. Extras cause CTD.

export_descr_buildings.txt
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 5. Extras ignored.

export_descr_character_trait.txt
Levels per trait: Min 1, max 9. Assumption.
Points required for a threshold: Min 1, max ≥ 600.
Points assignable per trigger: Min 0, max ≥ 100.

export_descr_unit.txt
Overall unit number: Min ?, max 500. Extras CTD?
Units per faction: Min ?, max 100. Extras don't appear for custom battles, but otherwise function normally.
Units buildable per city: Min 0, max 32. Default usage. Extras CTD.
Men per unit: Min 6, max 60. Extras CTD?
Extras per unit: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?.
[B]Collision mass: /B] Min ?, max ≥ 100. Default usage.
Number of officers: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Number of mount effects: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Mount bonus: ?
Number of attributes: Min 0, max none?
Number of formations: Min 1, max 2. Text file description.
HP: Min ?, max 15. Dev. Extra considered 15.
Attack factor: Min 1 (missile), max 63. Zero results in no missile attack. Extra considered 63.
Charge bonus: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Missile range: Min 20 (at least for javelins), max special. Every projectile seems to have a maximum range, perhaps based on velocity or something of the sort. If the range is set to a higher value than the projectile's max, the projectile won't reach that far.
Missile ammo: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?.
Undocumented kill rate variable: ?
Number of weapon attributes: Min 0, max none?
Armor factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Defensive skill factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Shield factor: Min 0, max 31. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 31.
Stat_heat: ?
Terrain modifiers: ?
Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.
Charge distance: ?
Fire delay: ?
Turns to build: Min 0, max 244. Extra ignored.

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).

Models
Number of faces/polys: Min ?, max 20,000 (for campaign-map models).

Thanks goes to Simetrical. This would be extremely usefull for modders here. Also, we can help finish the list.

Here

Overall model number: Min ?, max 255.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt
ExcludedAncillaries: Min 0, max 3. Default usage. Extras cause CTD.

export_descr_buildings.txt
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 5. Extras ignored.

export_descr_character_trait.txt
Levels per trait: Min 1, max 9. Assumption.
Points required for a threshold: Min 1, max ≥ 600.
Points assignable per trigger: Min 0, max ≥ 100.

export_descr_unit.txt
Overall unit number: Min ?, max 500. Extras CTD?
Units per faction: Min ?, max 100. Extras don't appear for custom battles, but otherwise function normally.
Units buildable per city: Min 0, max 32. Default usage. Extras CTD.
Men per unit: Min 6, max 60. Extras CTD?
Extras per unit: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?.
[B]Collision mass: /B] Min ?, max ≥ 100. Default usage.
Number of officers: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Number of mount effects: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Mount bonus: ?
Number of attributes: Min 0, max none?
Number of formations: Min 1, max 2. Text file description.
HP: Min ?, max 15. Dev. Extra considered 15.
Attack factor: Min 1 (missile), max 63. Zero results in no missile attack. Extra considered 63.
Charge bonus: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.

Missile range: Min 20 (at least for javelins), max special. Every projectile seems to have a maximum range, perhaps based on velocity or something of the sort. If the range is set to a higher value than the projectile's max, the projectile won't reach that far. - The projectile value can only be increased in the descr_projectiles, file, increase the velocity there then you increse tht value (the max range) and it will then fire further.

Missile ammo: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. - Not sure but I think 24 is the max Seleukos.

Undocumented kill rate variable: ?
Number of weapon attributes: Min 0, max none?
Armor factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Defensive skill factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Shield factor: Min 0, max 31. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 31.
Stat_heat: ?
Terrain modifiers: ?
Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.
Charge distance: ?
Fire delay: ?
Turns to build: Min 0, max 244. Extra ignored.

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).

Models
Number of faces/polys: Min ?, max 20,000 (for campaign-map models).

[Seleukos]

Thank you. These points have been added to opening post.

[Epistolary Richard]

Originally Posted by Seleucos I Nicator

Thanks goes to Simetrical. This would be extremely usefull for modders here. Also, we can help finish the list.

This is just the list from the Org Hardcoded Limits thread, isn't it? I know Simetrical did a lot of work maintaining that list, but you might just want to clarify that the limits were discovered by the experimentation of many members of the community.

[Sinuhet]

It is a very useful list of limitations, in my opinion. And it is very good, that this thread (originally from org web, as now we already know) has been revived in this place of TWC.

I have also one sad remark to export_descr_buildings.txt, maybe trivial.

building hinterland_mines
mines requires factions { barbarian, ct_carthage, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, } and resource silver or resource gold
capability { mine_resource 4 }
etc …………………………..

The only good functional resources to mine are gold and silver. You can add other resources or building minimal level conditions only with capability of trade bonus, but not with stable (i.e independent on an amount of trade) income via mine resource (CTDs).

[Bruticus the Steadfast]

I am sure this will be very helpfull to the members here. Thanks.

[Simetrical]

Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard

This is just the list from the Org Hardcoded Limits thread, isn't it? I know Simetrical did a lot of work maintaining that list, but you might just want to clarify that the limits were discovered by the experimentation of many members of the community.

I was going to mention that. Post updated.

-Simetrical

Originally Posted by Julius_Caesar

The projectile value can only be increased in the descr_projectiles, file, increase the velocity there then you increse tht value (the max range) and it will then fire further.

You're correct, I must not have known that when I originally made the list. Fixed.

Originally Posted by Julius_Caesar

Not sure but I think 24 is the max Seleukos.

I have successfully given units far in excess of 24 arrows.

-Simetrical

[Julius_Caesar]

Originally Posted by Simetrical

You're correct, I must not have known that when I originally made the list. Fixed.


I have successfully given units far in excess of 24 arrows.

-Simetrical

How many have you given, I think I gave 74 to some horsearchers without a CTD, but thanks for correction me Simetrical.

Julius

[Simetrical]

I gave 200 without a CTD, but I don't know if they were actually all used or if it defaulted to a lower number.

-Simetrical

[Sebastiaan]

I would lie to add the following knowledge to Collision mass: it only aplies on infantry versus infantry, not infantry versus cavalry

[Seleukos]

I beleive I have found the minimum size limit for a map. This being W 107, H 116.

[Atheist Peace]

Seleucos, that cant be right, as ive been making the map for Scotland TW ive had a map sized 71x71 when i first cut down the map and it worked fine.

[Simetrical]

Originally Posted by Seleucos I Nicator

I beleive I have found the minimum size limit for a map. This being W 107, H 116.

That seems very unlikely. Those numbers hold no significance whatsoever in binary. Are you sure you didn't just do something wrong?

-Simetrical

[Seleukos]

Originally Posted by Simetrical

That seems very unlikely. Those numbers hold no significance whatsoever in binary. Are you sure you didn't just do something wrong?

-Simetrical

Probably, they dont seem to have any significance in binary. I think I made a mistake somewhere.

[Zuwxiv]

If we know most of the limits, would it technically be possible to find that reference in the coding and remove it? (search through the coding for references to that number? If its a nice round number like 300 its probably coded in, but a number like 128 might be physical limitation.) I know that it would be very hard, but would it at all be possible if the hard coding was cracked?

Obviously I'm not a programmer, so I really don't know how stupid my question was.

[Simetrical]

If the hardcoding was cracked, it would be possible to remove any of the limits in principle. How hard, I have no idea, but I'm guessing there's some reason that CA isn't lifting some of those limits a bit. I mean, I doubt they're just trying to spite us.

-Simetrical

[alex1as]

Originally Posted by Seleucos I Nicator

Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.

So what is max morale value?

[Seleukos]

Originally Posted by alex1as

So what is max morale value?

We dont know.

[alex1as]

Is there any limeit for minning, farming and trade income (I mean bonus like in port or trader)?

[Simetrical]

None is known.

-Simetrical