Death Tolls of War

[Ravyn]

[ It should be noted that the numbers killed prior to the nineteenth century are unreliable and in most cases exagerated. ]

Wars
--------------------------
45,000,000–68,000,000 - World War II (1937–1945)
30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
33,000,000–36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
25,000,000–Manchu Conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)
15,000,000–66,000,000 - World War I (1914–1918)
17,000,000 - Timur Lenk's conquests (1370–1405)
10,000,000+ - Sino-Japanese War (1931–1942)
5,000,000–9,000,000 - Russian Civil War (1917–1921)
3,000,000–8,000,000 - Thirty Years War (1618–1648)
1,300,000–6,100,000 - Chinese Civil War (1928–1949) note that this figure excludes World War II casualties
300,000–3,100,000 before 1937
1,000,000–3,000,000 after World War II
3,500,000–6,000,000 - Napoleonic Wars (1804–1815)
3,800,000 - Second Congo War (1998–2004)
2,500,000–3,500,000 - Korean War (1950–1953)
2,300,000–3,100,000 - Vietnam War (entire war 1945–1975)
300,000–1,300,000 - First Indochina War (1945–1954)
100,000–300,000 - Vietnamese Civil War (1954–1960)
1,750,000–2,100,000 - American phase (1960–1973)
170,000 - Final phase (1973–1975)
175,000–1,150,000 - Secret War (1962–1975)
2,000,000–4,000,000 - French Wars of Religion (1562–1598)
300,000–3,000,000 - Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and Bangladesh Liberation War
1,500,000–2,000,000 - Afghanistan (1979–2001)
1,000,000–1,500,000 Soviet intervention (1979–1989)
300,000–2,000,000 - Mexican Revolution (1910–1920)
230,000–1,400,000 - Ethiopian Civil War (1974–1991)
1,000,000–1,200,000 - Seven Years' War (1756–1763)
1,000,000 - Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)
1,000,000 - Sudanese Civil War (1983–2002)
1,000,000 - Biafran War (1967–1970)
1,000,000 - Aztec conquests (1427–1519)
100,000–1,000,000 - Algerian War of Independence (1954–1962)
900,000–1,000,000 - Mozambique Civil War (1976–1993)
800,000 - Congo Civil War (1991–1997)
558,052 - American Civil War (1861–1865)
550,000 - Somalian Civil War (1988 - )
500,000 - Angolan Civil War (1975–2002)
500,000 - Ugandan Civil War (1979–1986)
400,000–1,000,000 - War of the Triple Alliance in Paraguay (1864–1870)
360,000–1,000,000 - Spanish Civil War (1936–1939)
300,000 - First Burundi Civil War (1972)
270,000–300,000 - Crimean War (1854–1856)
220,000 - Liberian Civil War (1989 - )
200,000–800,000 - Warlord era in China (1917–1928)
200,000 - Sierra Leone Civil War (1991–2000)
200,000 - Guatemaltec Civil War (1960–1996)
190,000 - Franco-Prussian War (1870–1871)
150,000 - North Yemen Civil War (1962–1970)
150,000 - Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905)
100,500 - Chaco War (1932–1935)
100,000 - Gulf War (1991)
30,000–100,000 - American led invasion and occupation of Iraq (2003 - )
75,000 - Ethiopia–Eritrea War (1998–2000)
75,000 - Second Boer War (1898–1902)
35,000 - Finnish Civil War (1918)
30,000 - Sino-Vietnamese War (1979)
13,000 - South Yemen Civil War (1986)
7,000 - Kosovo War (1996–1999) (disputed)
5,000 - Turkish invasion of Cyprus (1974)
3,000 - Northern Ireland conflict. 1969 - 1998
3,000 - Civil war in Côte d'Ivoire (2002 - )
2,000 - Football War (1969)
1,500 - Romanian Revolution (December 1989)
1,000 - Zapatista uprising in Chiapas (1994)
1,000 - Falklands War (1982)
537–3,000 - Operation Just Cause (Panama, 1989)




Individual battles and sieges
--------------------------------
800,000–1,600,000 - Battle of Stalingrad (1942–1943)
670,000–1,500,000 - Siege of Leningrad (1941–1944)
700,000 - Battle of Moscow (1941–1942)
400,000–680,000 - Battle of Kiev (1941)
500,000 - Battle of Smolensk (1941)
370,000 - Battle of Voronezh (1942)
370,000 - Battle of Belarus (1941)
175,000–350,000 - Operation Bagration (1944)
230,000–350,000 - Battle of Kursk (1943)
300,000 - Battle of the Somme (1916)
270,000 - Second Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive (1942)
270,000 - Battle of West Ukraine (1944)
260,000 - Battle of Verdun (1916)
260,000 - Battle of the Caucasus (1942)
165,000–300,000 Battle of Chalons (451)
230,000 - Battle of Berlin (1945)
200,000 - Siege of Tenochtitlan (1520–1521)
190,000 - Battle of West Ukraine (1941)
180,000 - Battle of France (1940)
170,000 - Battle of the Lower Dnieper (1943)
170,000 - Battle of Königsberg (1945)
150,000 - Battle of Rostov (1941)
150,000 - Battle of Okinawa (1945)
150,000 - Battle of Passchendaele (1917)
132,000 - Battle of Normandy (1944)
130,000 - Battle of Gallipoli (1916)
130,000 - Battle of Budapest (1945)
125,000 - Third Battle of Nanking (1864)
125,000 - Battle of Lemberg (1914)
115,000 - Battle of the Frontiers (1914)
100,000 - Battle of Chernikov-Poltava (1943)
100,000 - Battle of Smolensk (1943)
90,000 - Battle of the Aisne (1917)
83,000 - Battle of the Baltic (1941)
80,000 - Battle of the Somme (1918)
80,000 - Battle of the Marne (1918)
74,000 - Battle of Polyarnoe-Karelia (1941)
72,000+ - Battle of Belgorod (1943)
70,000 - Second Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945)
70,000 - Second Battle of Anchialus (917)
69,000 - Battle of Leyte (1944)
66,000 - Battle of Donbass (1943)
56,000–66,000 - Battle of Cannae (216 BC)
65,000 - Battle of Lvov-Sandomir (1944)
64,000 - Battle of the Aisne (1918)
62,000 - Battle of Artois (1915)
61,000 - Battle of the Baltic (1944)
60,000 - Battle of Basra (1985–1988)
60,000 - Battle of Monte Cassino (1944)
60,000 - Battle of Arras (1917)
60,000 - First Battle of Ypres (1914)
60,000 - Battle of Champagne (1915)
40,000–56,000 - Tet Offensive (1968)
55,000 - Korsun Pocket (1944)
55,000 - Battle of Voronezh (1943)
50,000 - Meuse-Argonne offensive (1918)
50,000 - Eleventh Battle of the Isonzo (1917)
50,000 - Battle of Hsuchow (1927)
30,000–50,000 - Battle of Naissus (268)
45,000 - Fourth Battle of Kharkov (1943)
44,000 - Battle of the Crimea (1944)
42,000 - Battle of the Seelow Heights (1945)
40,000 - Battle of Imphal
38,000 - Battle of the Bulge (1944–1945)
37,000 - Battle of Tannenberg (1914)
36,500 - Battle of the Ebro (1938)
35,000 - Battle of Mukden (1905)
32,000 - Battle of Lepanto (1571)
31,000 - Battle of Thapsus (46 BC)
31,000 - Battle of Taierzhuang (1937)
30,000 - Battle of Saipan (1944)
30,000 - Battle of Konotop (1659)
30,000 - Battle of Marignan (1515)
30,000 - Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (9)
20,000–30,000 - Battle of Munda (45 BC)
29,000 - Battle of Iwo Jima (1945)
25,000 - Battle of Pydna (168 BC)
26,000 - Katyn Massacre (1940)
22,500 - Battle of Leipzig (1813)
20,000 - Battle of the Trebia (218 BC)
18,500 - Battle of Borodino (1812)
16,500 - Battle of Halhin Gol (1939)
15,000 - Battle of Lake Trasimene (217 BC)
14,000 - Battle of Waterloo (1815)
11,000 - Battle of Heraclea (180 BC)
11,000 - Siege of Petersburg, Virginia (1864–1865)
7,000–11,000 - Battle of Pharsalus (48 BC)
10,500 - Battle of Asculum (279 BC)
10,360 - Battle of Mons Graupius (83 or 84)
10,000 - Battle of the Metaurus (207 BC)
10,000 - Battle of Celaya (1913)
8,700 - Battle of Cynoscephalae (197 BC)
7,058 - Battle of Gettysburg (1863)
6,592 - Battle of Marathon (490 BC)
5,350+ - Battle of Suomussalmi (1939–1940)
5,000+ - Battle of Dara (530)
5,000+ - Battle of Dyrrhachium (1081)
4,808 - Battle of Antietam (1862)
4,360 - Battle of Chickamauga (1863)
4,329 - Battle of Isandlwana (1879)
4,175 - Battle of Leuthen (1757)
3,477 - Battle of Shiloh (1862)
3,205 - Second Battle of Bull Run (1862)
200–2,850 - Battle for Fallujah (November 8–November 14, 2004)
2,800 - Battle of Midway (1942)
2,400 - La Noche Triste (1520)
2,000+ - Battle of Manzikert (1071)
1,705 - Battle of Cold Harbor (June 1-3, 1864)
1,700 - Battle of Vicksburg (1863)
1,000+ - Battle of Dyrrhachium (48 BC)
868 - First Battle of Bull Run (July 21, 1861)
622 - Jamestown Massacre (1622)
567 - Battle of Rorke's Drift (1879)
495 - Battle of Monongahela (1755)
383 - Battle of the Alamo (1836)
366 - Battle of Bunker Hill (1775)
350 - Battle of Spion Kop (1900)
302 - Battle of Little Bighorn (1876)




Genocide and Democide
--------------------------------

2,000,000–100,000,000 - Destruction of Native Americans (after 1492) The long-term decimation, sometimes by government policy and sometimes not, of the Natives of South and North America by Europeans is estimated to be one of the largest and longest in history. The numbers are controversial.
6,000,000–60,000,000 - African and Atlantic slave trade (16th - 19th century)
3,500,000–60,000,000 - Great Purge (Soviet Union, 1930s) (Probably 26,000,000)
250,000–20,000,000 - Cultural Revolution (China, 1966 - 1976 most estimates are around 1 to 2 million)
11,000,000–19,000,000 - Slave trade in Islamic World over 1200 years (7th - 19th century)
5,000,000–12,000,000 - Nazi internments and Holocaust in Europe
6,000,000 - Jews
2,600,000–4,000,000 Soviet POWs
1,000,000+ - Political prisoners
250,000–1,000,000 Roma
70,000–275,000 Handicapped
10,000–220,000 Homosexuals
5,000,000–10,000,000 - Congo Free State, (1877 - 1908)
1,000,000–3,000,000 Armenian Massacres (1895-1923) Heavily Disputed. Most cited number is 1.5 million. The Turkish government denies the genocide and accuses the Armenians of killing Turks instead
30,000–300,000 - Hamidian (First Armenian) Massacre (1895-1896)
6,000–30,000 - 1909
600,000–2,000,000 - Second Armenian Massacre (1915-1918)
250,000–500,0000 - (1919-1923)
1,700,000 - Pol Pot's communalisation program (Cambodia, 1976-1979)
500,000–1,500,000 - Degars killed in Vietnam, (Vietnam,1975 - present)
800,000–1,000,000 - Partition of India and Pakistan, (1947-1948)
250,000–1,000,000 - Massacre of alleged communists, (Indonesia, 1965-1966)
800,000 - Genocide in Rwanda (Rwanda, 1994)
300,000 - Idi Amin's dictatorship (Uganda, 1971-1979)
220,000 - Massacre of the Helvetii (58 BC)
260,000 - Greeks killed in Asia Minor (Turkey, 1912 - 1923)
182,000 - Al-Anfal Campaign (Iraq, 1986-1989)
40,000–100,000 - Herero massacre, (Namibia, 1904-1908)
30,000 - Dictatorship of François "Papa Doc" Duvalier, (Haiti, 1964 - 1971)
10,000–30,000 Argentina's Dirty War, (Argentina, 1976 - 1983)
18,000 - Duke_of_Alba (Spanish Netherlands, 1567-1573)
15,000–18,000 - Dictatorship of Fidel Castro, (Cuba, 1959 - present)
3,000 - Augusto Pinochet's dictatorship (Chile, 1973 - 1990)





Individual massacres, air raids, and concentration camps
---------------------------------------------------------------


1,100,000 - Auschwitz concentration camp
700,000–1,000,000 - Treblinka extermination camp
500,000–900,000 - 1938 Huang He flood, caused by sabotage in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1938)
250,000–800,000 - Sack of Baghdad by Hulagu Khan (1258)
50,000–350,000 - Rape of Nanking (1937)
260,000 Sobibór extermination camp
66,000–237,062 - Hiroshima Bombing (Japan, 1945)
39,000–108,000 - Nagasaki Bombing (Japan, 1945)
100,000 - Manila Massacre (Manila, Philippines, 1945)
60,000–100,000 - Sack of Jerusalem, First Crusade (1099)
70,000 - Sack of Merv by Genghis Khan (1221)
70,000 - St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (France, 1572)
30,000–40,000 - massacred in Novgorod by Ivan the Terible
30,000 - Babi Yar Yom Kippur Jewish Massacre (Kiev, Ukraine, 1941)
10,000–30,000 228 Incident, (Taiwan, 1947)
25,000–60,000 Bombing of Dresden in World War II, (Germany,1945)
25,000 - Sack of Magdeburg (Thirty Years War, Germany, 1631)
20,000 - Sack of Baghdad by Timur (1401)
20,000 - Massacre of Praga (Poland, 1794)
14,000 - Haitians massacred by Rafael Leónidas Trujillo's government. (Dominican Republic, 1937)
12,000 - La matanza (El Salvador, 1931)
10,000 - sack of Béziers (Albigensian Crusade, France, 1209)
5,000–12,000 - Massacre of Indians and Arabs in Zanzibar (Zanzibar, 1964)
7,000 - massacre in Thessalonika by Theodosius I (Byzantine Empire, 390)
7,000 - Zulus killed at the death of Nandi, mother of Shaka (1827)
5,000–7,000 - Halabja poison gas attack (Halabjah, Iraq, 1988)
328–5,500 - Sabra and Shatila Massacre (Lebanon, 1982)
1,645 - Guernica (1937)
379–1,000 - Jallianwala Bagh Massacre (Amritsar, India, 1919)
900 - El Mozote Massacre (El Salvador, 1981)
347–504 - My Lai Massacre (Vietnam, 1968)
360 - Wyoming Valley Massacre (Pennsylvania, United States, 1778)
320 - Bloody Assizes (England, 1685)
300 - Weenen Massacre (Natal, South Africa, 1838)
300 - Wounded Knee Massacre (South Dakota, United States, 1890)
100–300 - Waterloo Creek Massacre (Australia, 1838)
268 - Plan de Sánchez massacre (Guatemala, 1982)
91–200 - Kristallnacht (Germany, 1938)
150 - Sand Creek Massacre (Colorado, United States, 1864)
120 - Mountain Meadows Massacre (Utah, United States, 1857)
113 - Waxhaw Massacre (South Carolina, United States, 1780)
78 - Massacre of Glencoe (1692)
67 - Hebron 1929 Massacre (Palestine, 1929)
45–60 Acteal massacre (Mexico, 1997)

[therussian]

Wow, Most of those are WAY off.

For example: 18,500 - Battle of Borodino (1812) Way too little. Try 80,000 for each side

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

I wouldn't say they're way off, they're just very very broad estimates of the actual numbers killed. I am in full agreement with your Civil War battles totals, they seem spot on, however the ACW is beleived to have resulted in 620,000 killed or died of disease, not 558,000.

Also, for WWI battles I think you may have just gone with one day figures for battles that in reality lasted many months, most obvious among them were the Somme and Verdun. The Somme may be close to the truth, as I beleive around 700,000 casualties were suffered on all sides (not killed, just casualties)...so 300,000 dead may in fact be correct, but Verdun is far larger, with over 1 million casualties, so I'd wager more along the lines of 450,000 dead at Verdun.

Jeez, humans really like to kill each other, don't they... :sad

[Ravyn]

Originally posted by therussian91@May 26 2005, 01:04 PM
Wow, Most of those are WAY off.

For example: 18,500 - Battle of Borodino (1812) Way too little. Try 80,000 for each side

Yes, I noticed that after I posted it myself. But 80,000 is way over estimated. Napoleon Bonaparte arrived with more than 133,000 men versus the Russian army under General Kutusov with 120,000 men. The more accurate losses is 44,000 for the Russians and 33,000 for the French.

[conon394]

Ravyn

I think your number for the Mongol Conquests and the Lushan rebellion are perhaps over-inflated.

When you look at the range of population estimates for the world at roughly that time,
you are suggesting something like 20% of the words population was killed.

Same really goes for the Lushan Rebellion in 1000 AD the estimates I can find put China population between 50-80 Million. Your numbers would suggest something like half the population of the country was wiped out.

[Sidus Preclarum]

Originally posted by therussian91@May 26 2005, 01:04 PM
Wow, Most of those are WAY off.

For example: 18,500 - Battle of Borodino (1812) Way too little. Try 80,000 for each side

casualties, or fatalities ?

[Hamelkart]

Jesus Christ! First seven battles are fought between Germans and Russians if I'm correct!

[Sidus Preclarum]

err, first *nine*, and 14 ouf of the first 20 .

[Damage_Inc]

Yeah just amazing how many of those were fought between Germany and Russia.

[Perkele]

It's hard to say about casualties in the pre-20th century wars, I think one should include diseases as it were the armies that spread em.

[Ravyn]

Originally posted by conon394@May 26 2005, 02:16 PM
Ravyn

I think your number for the Mongol Conquests and the Lushan rebellion are perhaps over-inflated.

When you look at the range of population estimates for the world at roughly that time,
you are suggesting something like 20% of the words population was killed.

Same really goes for the Lushan Rebellion in 1000 AD the estimates I can find put China population between 50-80 Million. Your numbers would suggest something like half the population of the country was wiped out.

Read the first paragraph of my post. Before the 19th century the estimates are sometimes wrong. But if you ask me, the estimates are somewhat logical. Genghis Khan began his conquest in 1190ish AD... Khublai Khan was around the 1550ish. That's about 300 years of constant skirmishes between the Mongols neighbors, naive tribes, rebels and any other violent faction they've encountered. And of course, disease. The Mongols were brutal when it came to fighting against them. They've exterminated whole towns, villages and cities. The estimate seems logical to me.

[Marcus Scaurus]

Originally posted by Ravyn@May 26 2005, 11:27 AM
[ It should be noted that the numbers killed prior to the nineteenth century are unreliable and in most cases exagerated. ]

Wars
--------------------------
45,000,000–68,000,000 - World War II (1937–1945)
30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
33,000,000–36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
25,000,000–Manchu Conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)
15,000,000–66,000,000 - World War I (1914–1918)
17,000,000 - Timur Lenk's conquests (1370–1405)
10,000,000+ - Sino-Japanese War (1931–1942)
5,000,000–9,000,000 - Russian Civil War (1917–1921)
3,000,000–8,000,000 - Thirty Years War (1618–1648)
1,300,000–6,100,000 - Chinese Civil War (1928–1949) note that this figure excludes World War II casualties
300,000–3,100,000 before 1937
1,000,000–3,000,000 after World War II
3,500,000–6,000,000 - Napoleonic Wars (1804–1815)
3,800,000 - Second Congo War (1998–2004)
2,500,000–3,500,000 - Korean War (1950–1953)
2,300,000–3,100,000 - Vietnam War (entire war 1945–1975)
300,000–1,300,000 - First Indochina War (1945–1954)
100,000–300,000 - Vietnamese Civil War (1954–1960)
1,750,000–2,100,000 - American phase (1960–1973)
170,000 - Final phase (1973–1975)
175,000–1,150,000 - Secret War (1962–1975)
2,000,000–4,000,000 - French Wars of Religion (1562–1598)
300,000–3,000,000 - Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and Bangladesh Liberation War
1,500,000–2,000,000 - Afghanistan (1979–2001)
1,000,000–1,500,000 Soviet intervention (1979–1989)
300,000–2,000,000 - Mexican Revolution (1910–1920)
230,000–1,400,000 - Ethiopian Civil War (1974–1991)
1,000,000–1,200,000 - Seven Years' War (1756–1763)
1,000,000 - Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)
1,000,000 - Sudanese Civil War (1983–2002)
1,000,000 - Biafran War (1967–1970)
1,000,000 - Aztec conquests (1427–1519)
100,000–1,000,000 - Algerian War of Independence (1954–1962)
900,000–1,000,000 - Mozambique Civil War (1976–1993)
800,000 - Congo Civil War (1991–1997)
558,052 - American Civil War (1861–1865)
550,000 - Somalian Civil War (1988 - )
500,000 - Angolan Civil War (1975–2002)
500,000 - Ugandan Civil War (1979–1986)
400,000–1,000,000 - War of the Triple Alliance in Paraguay (1864–1870)
360,000–1,000,000 - Spanish Civil War (1936–1939)
300,000 - First Burundi Civil War (1972)
270,000–300,000 - Crimean War (1854–1856)
220,000 - Liberian Civil War (1989 - )
200,000–800,000 - Warlord era in China (1917–1928)
200,000 - Sierra Leone Civil War (1991–2000)
200,000 - Guatemaltec Civil War (1960–1996)
190,000 - Franco-Prussian War (1870–1871)
150,000 - North Yemen Civil War (1962–1970)
150,000 - Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905)
100,500 - Chaco War (1932–1935)
100,000 - Gulf War (1991)
30,000–100,000 - American led invasion and occupation of Iraq (2003 - )
75,000 - Ethiopia–Eritrea War (1998–2000)
75,000 - Second Boer War (1898–1902)
35,000 - Finnish Civil War (1918)
30,000 - Sino-Vietnamese War (1979)
13,000 - South Yemen Civil War (1986)
7,000 - Kosovo War (1996–1999) (disputed)
5,000 - Turkish invasion of Cyprus (1974)
3,000 - Northern Ireland conflict. 1969 - 1998
3,000 - Civil war in Côte d'Ivoire (2002 - )
2,000 - Football War (1969)
1,500 - Romanian Revolution (December 1989)
1,000 - Zapatista uprising in Chiapas (1994)
1,000 - Falklands War (1982)
537–3,000 - Operation Just Cause (Panama, 1989)

I disagree with this list. It's way too short.

[Bovril]

There simply aren't figures or decent estimates for most wars, which is why the list is a bit scant. Even for the ones on there the civilian casualties will be wild guesses. Even in the current war in Iraq no one has the faintest idea how many civilians have been killed, with estimates differing by several orders of magnitude.

[Trax]

Originally posted by therussian91@May 26 2005, 09:04 PM
Wow, Most of those are WAY off.

For example: 18,500 - Battle of Borodino (1812) Way too little. Try 80,000 for each side

This may be the correct number of the killed. Not including the wounded, captured and missing.

For example the 7000 killed is correct for Gettysburg although the combined casualties were over 40 thousand.

[Ravyn]

Originally posted by 00RedBaron@May 27 2005, 06:21 AM

I disagree with this list. It's way too short.

Nooo!! really? lol The list shows most of the documented and studied battles. I'm sure if we were to list all the battles in history... we would be here till the next millenium. If you would like to add to the list or correct mistakes, be my guest.

[Ravyn]

Originally posted by Bovril@May 27 2005, 06:37 AM
There simply aren't figures or decent estimates for most wars, which is why the list is a bit scant. Even for the ones on there the civilian casualties will be wild guesses. Even in the current war in Iraq no one has the faintest idea how many civilians have been killed, with estimates differing by several orders of magnitude.

They sound about right to me if you count all the things that could cause death from war. I'm 100% sure the person who wrote these figures included some estimates like deaths from disease, starvation, innocent bystanders and then the people who are wounded and die later.

[xenoturkey]

I find that the note beside the Armenian Genocide saying "heavily disputed" to be a bit much.

In 1985, the UN subcommission on human rights voted 14-1 of the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

In 1987, the European Parliament declared the Turkish massacres in WWI to be a crime of genocide.

Since then, nearly every country on the planet has issued an official statement on the historical fact of the genocide.

The majority of scholars in the world outside of turkey all agree that the event happened.

There is a mountain of eyewitness accounts (foreign and turkish), accounts from survivors, dispatches within the ottoman government, and a mountain of other evidence that could fill a warehouse.

The only government that debates the validity of the event is Turkey itself, who obviously has a vested self interest in denial of the events.

Where is the debate? I know this topic has been brought up before, I just think it is an insult to not publicly recognize the atrocities of the Ottoman Turks.

[therussian]

Ah, my brother. Welcome. But try not arguing about this with Mehmed II. I've learned that it is useless to try.

[xenoturkey]

Originally posted by therussian91@May 27 2005, 06:57 PM
Ah, my brother. Welcome. But try not arguing about this with Mehmed II. I've learned that it is useless to try.

Thanks for the welcome.

I have no intention of arguing with Mehmed, I was asserting what is considered fact in the international community. I actually have 7 books on the armenian genocide sitting around my desk area right now (and more on many other esoteric subjects that may prove useful on this forum someday!) :grin

-xenoturkey

[Ravyn]

Originally posted by xenoturkey@May 27 2005, 06:10 PM
I find that the note beside the Armenian Genocide saying "heavily disputed" to be a bit much.

In 1985, the UN subcommission on human rights voted 14-1 of the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

In 1987, the European Parliament declared the Turkish massacres in WWI to be a crime of genocide.

Since then, nearly every country on the planet has issued an official statement on the historical fact of the genocide.

The majority of scholars in the world outside of turkey all agree that the event happened.

There is a mountain of eyewitness accounts (foreign and turkish), accounts from survivors, dispatches within the ottoman government, and a mountain of other evidence that could fill a warehouse.

The only government that debates the validity of the event is Turkey itself, who obviously has a vested self interest in denial of the events.

Where is the debate? I know this topic has been brought up before, I just think it is an insult to not publicly recognize the atrocities of the Ottoman Turks.

It happened alot man.. to alot of innocent people.