Which of these Roman Victories is your favorite?

[qnzkid711]

Battle of Zama
The Battle of Zama was the final showdown between the Roman saviour Publius Cornelius Scipio and the fallen Hannibal. This important battle brought the Second Punic War to an end and completely destroyed Carthagenian power and put the put the African city at the mercy of Rome. The victory earned Scipio the cognomen "Africanus".

Battle of Magnesia
The battle between Scipio Africanus and his brother versus Antiochus III. The mobility of the legion and the lack of control Antiochus had over his army, by a foolish and overlong cavalry chase only to be routed at the Roman camp, secured the Roman victory and completely devastated the then dying Seleucid Empire. One of the many major enemies of Rome at the time.

Siege(Battle) of Alesia
This is the very popular siege where Caesar destroyed most of the remaining opposition in Gaul under Vercingetorix. The army within the city already was larger than Caesars but outside the city a relief army was there that numbered 100,000. Caesar's army numbered 60,000. The devastating defeat caused by confusion and panic within the Gallic forces brought Caesar's conquest of Gaul to an end

Battle of Ilipa
A would be decisive battle between Scipio Africanus and Mago Barca. Scipio broke away from the usual formation of the army. Sending his heavy infantry to the flanks creating "wing" like formation with some of his cavalry, his weaker spanish forces were placed in the center moving slower than the heavy infantry on the flanks. When the they touched the Lybian fitghters in the center of Magos army did not come to the aid of the flanks for fear of retalliation from the Spanish troops. Forced in the middle they were trampled by the routing Elaphants. However the battle came to a halt when a storm began.

Battle of Vercellae
This Roman victory ended Germanic aggression in Italy and sent Cimbri and Teutonic tribes, whom had crossed the Alps into Italy, back into Germany. The victory came under the hand of Gaius Marius. Thus also avenging past defeats.

Battle of Chaeronea
The beaten Mithradic general, Archalus, made a giant comeback and mustered a massive army numbering nearly 100,000 with 10,000 cavalry and 96 chariots to defeat his nemesis Sulla, who had merely 15,000 infantry and 15,000 cavalry. Sulla was horribly outnumbered but he came up with a combination of both an ambush and a full frontal attack which created chaos for the Mithridatic army. However even this could not do too much damage to the massive Mithradic force. Sulla then went up and down the lines, diverting cohorts and commands to all areas of the action to constantly hold the line. He then took control of the right wing and routed the enemy while his other generals did similary to the left. Afterwards it was a slaughter. Only 10,000 survived and Sulla claimed he lost a mere 15 or so. Which is impossible to actually believe. However it gives you a clue as to how big this victory was.

Battle of Watling Street
The Battle that crushed Bouddica's rebellion in Britannia. The Romans, being very much outnumbered, picked a good narrow location where they could not be outflanked. Dio claimed that the Briton army numbered around 300,000. But this is most probably unlikely. As the Briton army came to the Romans they were forced into a narrow pass which then they became one big packed mass. The Romans then began raining down pila on the Britons. They were easy targets since they were so close and so badly armored. They were then cut down by a Roman army in wedge formation. As they saw their friends fall they began to run. However being that their families and caravans were right behind them, they were severely hampered and easily cut down in their retreat.

[qnzkid711]

You know you guys can give reasosn as to why you like that battle above the rest...

[Eric]

I like the battle of Zama not quite sure why

[h4ns]

Vercallae
roman military discipline triumphs over the 'brute force' of a barbarian horde :]

[Taron Quintus]

Alesia. It demonstrated the flexibility, discipline, and sheer power of the legions when properly lead and organized. The scale of the engineering, logistics and ferocity of the Gauls were all overcome in the perfection of Roman military tradition.
Simply a spectaular victory.

[Attila The Hun]

zama is the best posted there since they captured the entire cartheginian empire after that...

[hannibal89]

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[qnzkid711]

sorry this messed up please someone delete these.

[qnzkid711]

sorry this messed up

[qnzkid711]

(letting Hasdrubal escape, missing grand opportunity to attack carthage when it was one day away)

Hasdubral was still had some military support his way. if Scipio went after him he risked an ambush. There were still two strong military forces to the north.

He believed Carthage should not be destroyed as "worthy enemies will prevent Rome from growing soft"

Scipio did not make that speech

(letting Hasdrubal escape, missing grand opportunity to attack carthage when it was one day away)

Are you jocking? Do you know the sheer size of Carthage then? He had merely 40,000 men and a few boats. Carthage prooved trouble for Rome even after it handed all its military equipment to Rome. It was never his intention to capture that city. Mere draw Hannibal out of Italy. Same with Hannibal. He had no intention of capturng Rome. Just to weaken it. He however failed to see just how far Rome went in war. For Carthage it was damage and end it. For Rome it was do or die. If Scipio wanted to siege Carthage it would have been a major undertaking and he already had many political enemies in Rome ready to take him right out of Carthage. One of them being Cato(at the time he had served under Scipio in Sicily and had ratted him out when Scipio was relaxing in some Greek baths saying he is ignoring his army and just playing in Greek customs). People also wanted to be in his position. If he showed any weakness his political enemies would use it against him.

He wasnt the best roman general, Theodore Ayrault Dodge in his novel makes that clear, Marcellus, Fabius and Nero outranked him in skill. The decisive battle of the war was at Metaurus River not at Zama, by Zama the fate of the carthaginians had been sealed.

So one strategical manuevering of some cohorts and all the sudden your a better general? Lets look at the facts.
At Ilipa(Cama was not an all special battle, strategically it was so-so, but Scipio clearly outwitted Hannibal on that one) Scipio completely reorganized his army two, Mid battle. He was able to execise complete control of his men the likes of which no other, except Hannibal, could not. His manuevering in that battle, imo, is proof of his genius. Had it not been for the sudden storm we would be talking about Ilipa as the Cannae of Carthage considering that by the Hasdubrals army was in copmplete route.Not only this but Scipio trained his legions himself and they would become the closest thing to a professional legion at the time. So much so that when they became too old to fight the people of Rome became scared. Righfully so since his legions would not have made some of he horrible mistakes made by the legions during the Third Punic War. The Battle of Baecula was proof of Scipios determination. He was willing to fight in an area that he lacked any advantages and put up with high casualties. But once again the discipline he had placed on his legions were so good that much of the Carthagenian army began running before the battle even closed in.

Politically however, Scipio was weak. But he was seen as a soldier and leader. Not as a politician.

This dodge guy seems to be some heavy hanniphile to me.

ANYWAY, this is a discussion about those battles not Scipio.
Hannibal89, if you want to continue this just email me at qnzkid711@aol.com(Yea I know its horrible but my dad wont take it away and I never really use it except for mail)

[hannibal89]

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[qnzkid711]

Now qnzkid i have lost all reason to be kind. Insulting Dodge who i respect very much for his great books on Hannibal, Alexander, Napoleon, and the US civil war, is like insulting me.
You know what, i'm not even gonna bother retaliating to such a stupid insult by calling you and goldsworthy scipiophiles...

It wasnt an insult to him....It was just the fact that he really likes Hannibal and seems to be picking his side. I wouldnt take him as an unbiased source. This isnt some comparison contest. Im sorry if it offended you.....


Anyway here are Goldworthies accounts of Baecula....

....Hasdubral camped on high gound, his read protected by a river , and his flanks by a rocky hillock. At the top of the slope he positioned his strong guard.....In a very strong position, one which no general would relish attacking

anyway this topic should go back to its orginal one(whatever that was). repsond to this on my email. I will go on it now if you want to chat...

[hannibal89]

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[{nF}remix]

man the gauls really had alesia, tehy were just too dumb...if they perfectly flanked ceasers army..., then Vercintegorix would be martchin on rome.

[hannibal89]

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[qnzkid711]

The Gauls seem to be great warriors....when they fight Caesar. But when its time to defend themselves against the Germans they rush to Caesars aid. Ditto with the Germans. Except for the Caesars aid part.


Anway I don't like writing a lot simply because my wrist tends to become a problem for me pretty quickly. It soon becomes tense after long typing and its why i rarely post things that big or take part in long arguements.

[hannibal89]

Anway I don't like writing a lot simply because my wrist tends to become a problem for me pretty quickly. It soon becomes tense after long typing and its why i rarely post things that big or take part in long arguements.

Strange thing to say for someone with >1000 posts :whistle

Hannibal89

[qnzkid711]

Not really when you consider many of my most of my posts have not exactly been the deep ones.

[hannibal89]

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[qnzkid711]

I don't think ABH posts unless the name Alex is involved.