Viking Invasion II Released

[Aradan]

The "bow/javelin" icon is tied to their EDU class/pri wpn attributes, which have been set in a specific way for realism and AI-helping reasons. To sum it up, these guys will not throw their javelins and charge, they'll first try to empty their hands, and then engage in melee.

[Legio]

Originally Posted by Aradan

Hmm, you think I went a bit over the top with the difficulty? "Hard" factions, btw, like Wessex are supposed to be played at Easy, the first time you try them, to get an idea of what's going on.

I'm open to feedback and suggestions, while I'm on the balance.

No, it is a nice challenge.
Just like FATW World of Men and your other mods.
The mod is perfect as far as I am concerned.

[Jingle_Bombs]

Some more pics from my increasingly tough Welsh campaign:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My Welsh territories as they stand.

Although I've been invaded by the Mericans on more than one occasion. Both our factions seem to be exchanging raids upon each other for the moment. I can't afford a large army capable of meeting the Saxons on the field, and they're too busy expanding elsewhere to send any massive armies my way. At least for now... I've a feeling that their economy is hurting, as I've been busy destroying their ports and traders in my raids. As I said before, though, having a good number of ships on hand is essential to be able to conduct efficient raids. I've been playing this for hours today, and I didn't even realise! My campaign has reached that point where I'm getting increasingly desperate, as Mercia starts attacking more frequently. I meant to play Stainless Steel today at some point, but once again Viking Invasion has sucked me in with its uniqueness, and now all I'm left with is a feeling that I ought to go and make the dinner I should have eaten two hours ago .

Oh, and here's my mean king Rhodri:

Originally Posted by Aradan

I'm open to feedback and suggestions, while I'm on the balance.

If that's the case there are a couple of things. Perhaps archers should get a bit of a boost for their missile damage. At the minute my merceneries and Longbowmen alike can't kill more than about 10 saxon spearmen at range before they're in close combat.

Also, the Welsh Longspears:


perhaps they ought to have shield wall instead of schiltrom. At the moment, schiltrom isn't used often (at least, not by me) and it dosen't seem to confer any serious bonus. Shield wall, or 'spear wall', if you will, would perhaps be better, as the defense bonus it confers could represent the almost phalanx like defense the long spears give. Also, if these guys had shield wall, they'd fight a little more like pikemen, not to mention they'd advance towards the enemy with their spears lowered.

Just a thought, anyway. The game wouldn't exactly be 'unplayable' if these changes weren't made. Thanks again for all the hard work

[Aradan]

The schiltrom is there more for flavour than for gameplay. Not that it's not useful when you want to block the way for enemy cavalry, but it's immobility is an issue. We've discussed this internally and decided we'd go for it, because the formation was widely used (invented?) by Picts. I feel shield wall wouldn't go well with guys that hold 2-handed spears tbh. Plus the AI doesn't use SW well + we wanna keep it as a Saxon/Viking flavour feature.

Missiles: If the majority agrees with you, I'll give them a +1 universally. Archer's weren't *that* effective against armoured or well-shielded enemies at the time I believe, it's mainly an infantry era.

Looks like you're having fun!

[Jingle_Bombs]

Sounds like a fair enough decision. I've pondered this myself, as Arthurian's longspear units use the shieldwall ability, and it looks quite impressive. I have to admit, it'd look weird on the interface seeing as they don't actually have shields at all.

I'm enjoying this alot .....and I wan't to get that sig banner for the welsh

[DaVinci]

Missiles: If the majority agrees with you, I'll give them a +1 universally. Archer's weren't *that* effective against armoured or well-shielded enemies at the time I believe, it's mainly an infantry era.

Aradan, i agree only if the archers and slingers will be reduced in the unit number. You are completely right that this timeframe hadn't a lot long-range units in armies. Now they have 30, and normal infantry ca. 40-45. I would say long-range units shall get max 20 men and then just one point more missile attack, but i eventually would slightly make them less accurate, perhaps except for the Welsh ones, and if there are any elite archers in the roster as well, oh, and i think, the Danish Viking archer should better as well compared to the usual other archers, Vikings were quite skilled with the bow (and with javelin).
Oh, and i would exchange the model of the merc archer with the saxon archer model. As for the merc replenishment, i would reduce it.

[DragonsWarrior]

amazing mod this is hope there will be some updates for this mod great game

[Dom9127]

I don't think archers are ineffective, I think that they are a little too effective. Whilst fighting Dane's I have been getting 70+ kills with a single unit of archers, but perhaps the proto-longbow men should have a slightly higher attack.

[Orgath]

I think the archers are fine the way they are as far as effectiveness goes.

[Turumba]

I agree with Da Vinci and Dom. Archers are just useful as a tactical variant. When the Infantry is in melee, they could run behind the battleline and shot in back of the enemy. Or using flamming arrow at the right time. Just dont shoot into the front- from back or side they are very effectiv. Fear, not the destruction of arrows, will give them sense and thats quite good. I still wonder why the welsh get Longbows, even a proto, thought they where used first time in 12.century. But i m not familiar with the Longbow history and its absolutly ok.

difficulty: I think, its ok too. Everyone can set his own difficulty in the beginn of the campaign- there for its developed. Noone has to start a vh/vh campaign while playing the first time a new mod. I play Marauder, even i remember and respected the strenght of danish Infantry in Medieval. I just played the westsaxons so far, but the only problem i got are the danes and this is, in my opinion, the great plus of the mod! One cant beat the full stack, so one have to find new ways to victory- what a challenge! Making them splitt their armys, anoying them, shoot ur arrow empty and run away without shame (25 dead Huscarls are good Huscarlsremember they cant build or retrain their elites in England in the beginn), catch the small armys, if they capture a city go to their other city... at least go ahead with defeats. Again, what a challenge! I love it!

I started a new campaign because of the dont sally bug. I was hoping that i could document it a bit beter. But the situation was different and i was not able to besiege a danecity till they have to sally... Ketil and his 3/4 Stack besieged London the second time, so i let them and besieged their city northeast of London. Ketil lifted siege and came after me... so i had to attack or beeing crushed between 2 Danearmys. Ketil besieged me then and i decided after the second turn to sally out... my whole army was in there, also the danes had no city to retreat in England at this moment...and i thought now or never. It was a long, hard and exciting fight, i lost 3/4 of my army, but Ketil lost his live in the last minute of battle, then they fleed and die all, hopfully, but maybe they had an ally... :hmmm: I will see.

And if someone hears of that cruel lie, spread by the untrusty danes, that i, the common King of England, would slaughter my own people, when recapture a city, then scream out loud: "Lie, lie!". Because u know ur King is loving u!

At least, noone except me has noticed the dont sally-bug? :hmmm: I can offer savegame, if its wanted?

Edit to dont sally-bug: I just checked the savegame and noticed that the danes dont repair the woodwalls. Maybe thats the reason, that they dont come out, when sallying.

[Aradan]

If I remember correctly, the non-sally issue existed in vanilla as well, it's not specific to this mod. The AI gets confused because of a mismatch in strength calculations of battle-map and strat-map. Strat-map-wise, they decide to attack, battle-map-wise they decide not to, so you have that issue.

Great that you're finding the game challenging, that's what we hoped for!

[DaVinci]

I still wonder why the welsh get Longbows, even a proto, thought they where used first time in 12.century. But i m not familiar with the Longbow history and its absolutly ok.

So-called longbows aren't an invention of the 12th c.
The late era famous Welsh and still later English Longbowmen became only that famous due to the Battle of Agincourt.
"Longbows" even existed already in other (for example asian) cultures in the antique.

[Turumba]

Oh, what a pity, when ever a mod flys up to sky, he bounced at the vanilla sky. I´m a bit confused of this, so let me ask: Comes the mismatch because of the strenght calculation, just like a grey-zone between sally out and dont fight at all? Or comes the mismatch of the holes in Wall and the ai try automaticly to defend? Dont want to steal ur time, but i want to know... after this i let u in your pit again...

@ Da Vinci: Seems to be an interesting theme. So, it seems i have to make a difference (just like always since studying, nothing is simple if u look closer) between a Longbow with wide range generely and the special projectils used in the Battle of Agincourt... thanks.

[MasterOfNone]

We'd be interested in any feedback on the historical battles as to their difficulty specifically...Lindisfarne should be as hard as possible without being impossible. The Battle of Deorham should be challenging.

[DaVinci]

between a Longbow with wide range generely and the special projectils used in the Battle of Agincourt... thanks.

... the Agincourt projectiles have been found and investigated: They weren't exceptional better, especially they weren't able to crash the knights plate armour really (only crossbows were, if shot from a fitting range). The winner was in fact: The mass recruitment (the english weren't able to afford a proper heavy army) of those archers, and the skill of them, that they fired arrow by arrow into the crowd of the attacking superior french army ... horses felt, and the heavy knights sticked quite immobile in the wet mud of the battlefield were then easy targets for the light english infantry who searched for the gaps in their armour ... a slaughter of the french nobility and the ones who survived this were captured and then executed later ... so to say a tactical victory only, everything else is a myth.

[Halie Satanus]

Off topic I know, but as Longbows are being discussed.

YouTube Video

[kingtaso]

Well, about historical battles, I haven't tried to do Deorham yet, but i have won Lindisfarne every time I do it. Maybe put less peasants.

How do I do to use the sig for winning Lindisfarne, I want to put it on my profile

[Aradan]

When playing Lindisfarne, do both the Danish units attack you? because if I run my entire army near the church, the danish general does not attack and the Vikingr break after a while and flee.


You must go to My Account->Edit Signature and add the image's url there with the proper image tags.

[DaVinci]

More offtopic: (but just to make an end of the english longbow myth)

Halie, nice movies, but changes not the british myth or rather lie of Agincourt and the famous present longbowmen.
Even the troop numbers were in fact in a ratio of 3:2 for France and not, what the british history maintained pretty long time 4:1 for the French

It was actually and only a clever managed strategical and tactical victory of Heinrich plus a very bad battle management by the french army leaders. In any other case, Agincourt wouldn't have happened that way.

[kingtaso]

Nope, the general stans there like a dumbass watching his soldiers get killed