Viking Invasion II Released

[Aradan]

Medium/Medium I'd say, at least that's what the core of balancing was done on. Factions like Wales, that are tagged as Very Hard, are indeed *hard* so maybe they require Easy for the first go you have with them.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Originally Posted by Aradan

Hehe, and we thought nobody would ever notice... Well spotted!

sorry guy theres no mistaking those models, they're awsome!

and i love that mod, and Arthurian TW as well. so this will make a welcome addition to my collection.

so is there still a problem with the sheild walls then?

cos that could seriously upset me, as i like the battles to be as authentic as possible and we all know the saxons loved their sheild walls

[MasterOfNone]

The shield wall was quite present among other cultures but the Saxons do have it more abundantly in the mod iirc...

There's no problem with it.

[Keyser Soze]

nice mod and interesting era . i only try it, so can´t say much about. now i have three notices. music is bad hearing, and no voices of characters. nice, large map but i must offen seek there what i seeking for, but nevermind. and last, maybe more factions. ireland was never unified, so here can be two clans, also Frankish east empire on france - not necessary, to england maybe East England or Kent, to scotland Picts, and it´s for BI, yes? so you can used appearing faction (west, east roman rebels) for Jarl of Orkney or Jarl of Hladir.
... olnly my ideas :hmmm:.
but nice work.

[MasterOfNone]

Thx for your kind words, visitor.

1. The music is from the original and is much liked for reasons of nostalgia - not sure what you mean by bad hearing.

2. Voices - prebattle speeches? Those were dropped as they would perhaps only have sounded right for one of the three cultures.

3. More factions - the aim was to recreate the original game, not add in more factions; indeed, doing so would not have seen this released anytime soon.

There are still a couple of mods in development that may have the time and manpower to see through a mod similar to this one but with a few mroe factions and perhaps a bit more to the map - hopefully one of them will be able to complete their work and I am sure this will appeal to Viking Invasion II players in the future.

[MasterOfNone]

IMPORTANT: For those with version 1.0 a patch (1.1) has been added which removes a loophole in the coding which can create and end-turn ctd under certain - thankfully rare - circumstances.

Download it here: http://www.topnotchmods.net/downloads/VI2_1_1_patch.rar (less than 2 megs). Please visit the page from which you downloaded the mod (see opening post) if you require instructions.

Thanks to jimkatalanos for drawing our attention to this.

Game-save compatibility is not guaranteed.

[Keyser Soze]

about music, maybe i must enforce sound . voices, if we choose any character he tells yes, in yours order and so on...

[Turumba]

Aye, Viking Invasion was fun! Now this!
I will install and play tomorrow for sure!
What can one say?! What ur guys doing this year is absolutly awesome! Keep this teamwork of the Modderelite going on- ur guys making a lot of people very happy!

Thanks!

Did i forgot something?:hmmm:

Oh, yes! Forward!

[Skandinav]

What I first wrote pretty much sums up my impression but upon request I will try to give some detailed feedback now that I´ve seen much more of it.

First of all the aesthetics; I am amazed by the pretty new city-walls aswell as the many pretty units; especially beautiful are the viking thegns/bodyguards, huskarls and jomsvikings ( of which the latter looks very neat in their tortoise formation but regrettably of the same reason have no battle/rally horn when posing as the captain´s unit ) but I´m not sure about what the light infantry vikingr are wearing, it certainly doesn´t look like ( nor should it be ) chain-mail, but it doesn´t really come off as fur or leather either, at least IMHO, and I find the bulky shoulder-guards a bit cartoonish. And why no beserkers for the danes, I think I remember the same was the case in the original, but why not correct this historical error of CA´s in the sequel even though historical accuracy is not your goal ( I think ) ? But then again it would be feasible to suggest that the norwegians had cavalry aswell and it might be a good course if it is kept as it is for some variety between the two viking factions.
The music and interface, and all that which this encompasses, of the mod are perfect ( although an option for minimal UI would be great ), the nostalgia is surpassingly good, and the mod has the spirit of the original but with a new feel at the same time due to all the new additions of which the RP-friendly ancillary titles, provincial information structures, unit-autoresolve balance and ZoR are ones I enjoy immensively.
I also love the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle of course. And all included text, whatsoever.
Concerning game-play the possibility for raids are awesome with much money gained from plundering/destroying churches and such ( could yield more if I must be nit-picky though, as it would be great if it could really pay off as opposed to holding settlements, which as it is it cannot and one has to find some balance between both raiding and holding ) and as far as I can see some fortunate script helps the AI to build it all up again for ones future exploitation.
I also find both the overall balance and difficulty to be almost perfect, even at M/M ( especially in regards to diplomacy and AI aggression, city squalor levels, faction balances - although with one exception which I shall soon return to - and unit stats - archers could have a more realistic range though but that may overpower them in the largely infantry-based war theater - but also much else, all of which often seems to be achieved by a clever approach rather than heavy scripting ).
Everything is also smooth on the tactical map and there are often a few routs and rallies in a single battle adding the swinging fortunes of war to the credibility of the game´s atmosphere ( also furthered by the fact that cavalry is scarce, making retreat a viable option for the AI and the losing side in a battle rarely annihilated, and realistically so ).
Furthermore I have only praise for the strategic map and serious consideration must be done before any expansion, depending on the faction though.
Speaking of which I believe there is an imbalance ( minor, about 6-800 shillings at all times ) in the economy of the danes and having tried out all the other factions, some 20-30 turns to get a feel, I have only been confirmed in this suspicion. Now, before you dismiss me as merely incompetent I must say that I´m an experienced Total War player and have tried to utilize at least a handful of strategies in quite a few restarts but to no avail.
I know it helps the AI to start with an army ( although the faction-customized campaign script should render this unnecessary ) and I´m accustomed from other mods to begin with one with an upkeep beyond my income and I´m used to the choice of either going straight to war or disbanding it ( or something in between ) but with the danes here it seem nearly futile whichever choice I make.
You are left with so little money compared to all the other factions ( except the welsh and west saxons ) that you cannot even maintain a few cheap units in a garrison-requiring settlement besides your FM ( so that you could at least defend it from small stacks ) even with relatively developed settlements.
I have tried to disband most units and ships and build up the infra-structure with only FM´s in my cities but still I´m haunted by red numbers. I have tried to invade a lot of settlements with all the units the danes start with, but even with four or so settlements, which can hardly be defended or even held from the local populace, plus a boat or two sailing around the isles raiding with cheap two-unit crews, the numbers are nearly always red or struggling at either side of 0. Although with ones army and fleet completely disbanded and two FM´s in three settlements ( the capital can do without garrison ) and a few income-generating structures I get positive numbers on the end-turn report but always below 1000 shillings a turn, which would be fair enough if that is I had men left to protect my settlements, which of course with time cannot be maintained by so small a garrison without rebelling until it has been held much longer ( newly acquired christian settlements, that is ). Hording your populations and making the isles awash in vikings is the manner in which I had the most luck, but money kept being a problem.
I tried Norway because I thought it might be intentional that the viking factions required some special approach but was surprised to find the massive norwegian fleet, army and island empire making about 700 or more per turn from turn 1 without the need to disband even a single unit of peasants ( the same goes for nearly all the other factions, invade a settlement or two, build a few structures and you´ll have a good regular income almost from the start and sometimes this isn´t even necessary although then viking attacks are a nuisance instead ) and to contrast this the danes have a few hundred income if one restrains their power to three semi-advanced settlements ( one of which represents their homeland in its entirety ), two FM´s and four cheap, undermanned units and perhaps a FM plundering some churches from a snekke.
I´m not saying the danes are impossible to play - it is possible with the right take on it ( but you are extremely poor for a very, very long time ) - only that everyone else is richer and that much of the campaign is reduced to a defensive operation ( which was not particularly the role the danes played historically at all ), keeping saxon hosts from your walls with a few veterans and it is often very ironic reading about the great battles taking place between the danes and natives in the Chronicle whilst your battered remains are besieged and terribly indebted.
Anyway, I´m sorry if this explanation has become unnecessarily lengthy I guess the point has come across.

All in all, what I consider the imbalanced danish economy aside your mod seems very complete ( instant classic ) and while my enthusiasm for the period, if not clouding my judgement, then at least has a say in it, I find VI2 to be RTW mod of the year.

[Keyser Soze]

[quote=visitor;3733387]about music, maybe i must enforce sound . voices, if we choose any character he tells yes, in yours order and so on...[/quote

i find patch and the voices are o.k. now.

[Aradan]

Skandinav, thanks for the detailed feedback! We'll wait for feedback from other players and then probably release a patch to address any issues.

visitor: Not sure what the patch has got to do with the voices, but great that everything works well now.

[MasterOfNone]

Skandinav,

Thank you for your kind words and feedback - it was not overly lengthy at all. I wish all were the same!

I am glad you have enjoyed so much of it. As to your points...

1. Yes, it was put forward that the Vikings be divided into two factions so I decided that some difference should exist. Berserkers for the Norwegians and Danish Horsemen (other culture's stables) and Leidangr (ports) for the Danes. Yes, historical accuracy was not the main focus - though we hope to have improved a little upon VI itself in that regard.

2. The Vikingr were always a problem unit to get right - Halie improved them greatly in terms of model and shape and texture (which I, admittedly, messed around with a bit too) but they are not quite right perhaps but much better than they were...something for a patch one day perhaps. It is supposed to be fur

3. Not sure what you mean by minimal UI - that is set in preferences.txt I believe and assume it works if changed (never used it).

4. The Danes - this is certainly something in which we are interested. As we get more feedback we can tell where changes need to be made. As you must understand, no mod can really be tested in-house to the extent it can in public.

5. Viking Invasion is not only free of "heavy scripting", it is free of all background/event scripting. The only script is the one that triggers as the game starts which is more or less a continuation of the campaign file - it merely tweaks some starting conditions, in a rather clever way, to make the campaign more of a challenge for the faction the player chooses to play.

I am glad - Danish economy aside - it hit all the right buttons for you. The Provincial Information buildings, Anglo-Saxon Chronicle etc. were all little flavours, in addition to the graphical ones, which were undertaken in order to immerse the player more deeply into Viking-Age Britain.

I am glad you have pointed out so many of the features which are to your liking as well as overall balance issues...this is good to hear.

Again, thanks for some great feedback.

RTW Mod of the Year? An Instant Classic? We hope so!

[DaVinci]

Have just read Skandinav's report ... very good reflection indeed

Also, i took just a look into the camp script and for a first little salvation for the Danes as human player, one could just reduce the cs penalties a bit for the Danish human player ... this won't help for long, but for the first approach.

I agree completely with Skandinav's background info, that the Danes should not be, also as human player, an ongoing economy test of skills in this area, rather one should be able to get on a few of the historical goals at the start to getting the immersive feeling of a Danish Viking ... and then it should stagnate a bit and the challenge must stay hard, to hinder the player to steamroll the isle(s) ... but, i think (after a short look only in the cs) that is anyway provided even by the cs and by the other code design, that i know already through my participation during the development (while i didn't know the cs, which were provided in the (last) days by Aradan, as i went absent from the final run to the release. Nonetheless the cs is great done, should be refined though a bit, imo.).

Just my first 2 cents ... only as reflection wothout having played the camp yet.

[Halvar von Flake]

A dream is becoming true...

...hopefully...I'm not sure if it works with the Gold Edition which combines RTW and BI...

...can anybody tell me...?

+rep

[Aradan]

It works with any BI version patched to 1.6. Not all Gold Editions are patched to 1.6 though (God knows how many "installation problems" we had with this in fatw), so make sure your BI is 1.6 before installing.

[Halvar von Flake]

Yes, it works! Awesome!

[Halie Satanus]

but I´m not sure about what the light infantry vikingr are wearing, it certainly doesn´t look like ( nor should it be ) chain-mail, but it doesn´t really come off as fur or leather either, at least IMHO, and I find the bulky shoulder-guards a bit cartoonish.

If you have a reference pic..

[magpie]

Great work and all the best with your new Viking release MoN, Great to see this period brought back. regards magpie.

[Jingle_Bombs]

A completed Vikings/Saxons mod?

I think I might need to go and cry with joy.... all those amazing factions... I just can't make the choice... Might have to go with the welsh... dunno why.


edit: one minute left on the download! I'm shaking with anticipation.... This should be pretty awsome. Some very experienced modders are behind this, so I expect something pretty amazing

[MasterOfNone]

Ah, the Welsh..yes. I have something to say about them later