Files from kingdoms

[sinople]

I was wondering if it was legal to use some textures from kingdoms and to put them in a mod for M2TW ?

Someone ask the question :

Customer (smackdekelloggs) - 18/10/2007 05.02 PM
Hi,

I would like to know if it's legal to take some parts of kingdoms (I
mean mainly models and textures) and use it in a mod for medieval 2
vanilla. Off coursse the mod will be shared and not for perssonal use only.
I was unable to find out a clear responce in the license file.
Thanks in advance

Response (Sébastien) - 25/10/2007 01.46 PM
Hi smackdekelloggs,

Thank you for contacting SEGA Europe.

This is not a problem if the mod is not for commercial use. A lot of
mods use parts of Medieval II.

Best regards,

Sébastien Bazillier
Product Support
SEGA Europe
www.sega.co.uk

But the answer is a bit confused (for me) , so is it allowed ?

[sinople]

so ?

[GrnEyedDvl]

Here is your answer:

This is not a problem if the mod is not for commercial use. A lot of
mods use parts of Medieval II.

As long as you arent selling the mod.

[Garnier]

To be clear:

Yes, you are allowed if you do not sell the mod (selling mods is illegal).

[LestaT]

I think it's on the understanding that those who use the mod already have Kingdoms installed.

It's still unethical (if not illegal) to take parts of Kingdoms to be distribute to those who don't own them.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Not as long as you arent using/distributing the .exe

[LestaT]

If distributing the .exe then it became illegal. No doubt.

[Taneda Santôka]

Originally Posted by LestaT

I think it's on the understanding that those who use the mod already have Kingdoms installed.
It's still unethical (if not illegal) to take parts of Kingdoms to be distribute to those who don't own them.

How is it more legal to distribute M2TW vanilla units to those who don't own them. You don't need M2TW to download the mods, wich feature some M2TW data, none can verify if you can make use of them. Then, maybe it's a problem to have this data usable with another exe then the one it was intended for.:hmmm:

[LestaT]

Well during RTW time as I understand it's illegal to upload an unmodded RTW (and BI files) for distribution.

[Candelarius]

I'd like to get a clear answer on this, too. The RetroMod and the Unit Addon Mod (for the RetroMod) both use a .bat file to copy Kingdoms' assets from the unpacked Kingdoms' folders into their respective mymod folders, saying that the reason for the .bat file is to avoid copyright infringement. Yet other popular mods, like Stainless Steel, do directly include Kingdoms' assets in their mymod folders (downloadable directly). So, what's the real answer? I agree the response posted above isn't very clear. I have a personal mod that adds about 90 Kingdoms' units (and other changes) that I'm sure others would like to play, but, I'm afraid to distribute with all the copyright sueing going on in America right now. Could SEGA give us a final word on this?

[Lusted]

Stainless Steel 5.1 uses Kingdoms.exe, so people would have Kingdoms anyway, so there are no problems in relation to that. The rest of it's a bit of a grey area, i'll try and get answer for you guys.

[Jack Lusted]

Right then, official response.

Distributing Kingdoms files in a mod is illegal unless you configure the installer to take the files from the players Kingdoms installation. Including whole factions/unit models and textures from Kingdoms in the mod itself which would allow people without Kingdoms access to them is not allowed by the EULA.

[The Border Reiver]

Therefore, is it incorrect then to create a mod in the same manner that "Retrofit" was created which creates a copy of the main mod folder and then points a .bat file at the new folder (as I have done)? This requires the cd in the drive to work.

I just want to ensure I am doing the right thing here. I would appreciate clarification, either here or by PM.

thanks chaps.

[Jack Lusted]

Therefore, is it incorrect then to create a mod in the same manner that "Retrofit" was created which creates a copy of the main mod folder and then points a .bat file at the new folder (as I have done)? This requires the cd in the drive to work.

I just want to ensure I am doing the right thing here. I would appreciate clarification, either here or by PM.

thanks chaps.

As long as your mod does not distribute Kingdoms files(eg faction symbols, unit models and textures in particular) for people without Kingdoms to play, it is fine. If it did contain Kingdoms files which could be used by people with just Medieval II: Total War then it would not be allowed.

[The Border Reiver]

Thankyou Jack Lusted I understand, mine will be fine then.

[Candelarius]

Thanks Jack Lusted, I really appreciate the fast feedback. I will not be releasing my mod then.

[sinople]

Ok, really thanks

[Candelarius]

The more I think about this new rule, the more pissed off it makes me. This seriously is a hindrance to the modding community. I don't think modders should be held responsible for potential illegal actions by the community. If a modder includes a Kingdoms file in his mod, and states the mod is only for Kingdoms, the modder isn't responsible if a non-Kingdoms owner takes it upon himself to acquire the file and place it in his non-Kingdoms game.

But, so what if he did. Nobody banned using BI UI interfaces in RTW mods. There are many mods out (including Lands to Conquer) that are including Kingdoms' UI interfaces in their mods...why is an interface texture allowed but a unit texture is not? Why is a texture allowed but not a model file?

I've been working on a mod that has about 100 new units for the Grand Campaign, all setup and ready to go. I've tested it ad nauseum and feel it is my best mod yet. But, sadly, I cannot release it unless I spend god knows how many hours writing a batch file and days testing it. I just don't have the time, energy, or even ability to create a complicated installation program that would copy the files from an unpacked Kingdoms (that alone is reason enough to appeal this) to the mymod folder.

I would like to ask CA to reconsider this ban on Kingdoms' files in GC mods. Indeed, my mod isn't even a GC mod, as it installs into a Kingdoms' style folder and uses the Kingdoms' exe.

[Dave Scarface]

Right then, official response.

Distributing Kingdoms files in a mod is illegal unless you configure the installer to take the files from the players Kingdoms installation. Including whole factions/unit models and textures from Kingdoms in the mod itself which would allow people without Kingdoms access to them is not allowed by the EULA.

When I started making my Kingdoms Grand Campaign Mod back in September I contacted Unspoken knight about releasing Kingdoms content. Here was his reply to me below:

Hi Dave,

I have had some feedback and it is good news! You can release Kingdoms mods using Kingdoms content as long as it isn't for commercial use. It is preferable if you can use a disclaimer along the following lines also:


BY INSTALLING THIS SOFTWARE YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS
This is an unofficial Mod for Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms. SEGA and the Creative Assembly do not endorse or support this Mod.
All right, title, interest and ownership rights in this Mod (excluding the original Creative Assembly software) belong to the author (as far as is legally possible).
The Author (and for the avoidance of doubt SEGA and The Creative Assembly) will not be held responsible for the risks connected with any loss (financial or otherwise), damage to property, lost data, console, computer or handheld device failure, errors and lost business or other information as a result of possession, use or malfunction of this Mod.
Click on the "I Accept" button at the bottom of this page to indicate your acceptance of these terms and to install the Mod.


Obviously you can replace references to 'the author' with something appropriate. I think it is best to ensure any mods that contain Kingdoms content are designed as Kingdoms mods (i.e. to use kingdoms.exe). Many thanks for your hard work and interest in both Kingdoms and my Retrofit Mod. I am sure the community will enjoy your mod immensely.

Regards,

Unspoken Knight


Lusted my mod will only work with the Kingdoms.exe and I have included a disclaimer as Unspoken Knight suggested. Are you now telling me that my mod is illegal? No one mentioned to me that only a certain kind of installer was permitted. Where does this leave me now that i have released my Kingdoms Grand Campaign Mod?

I made and released my mod with the best of intentions, after the months of hard work and the hundreds of hours Ive put into this mod are you telling me that what Ive done is not allowed? I cannot believe this!

[Candelarius]

I don't buy it Dave, either. I've never heard of this kind of modding unfriendly rule until now, and there are many, many mods, nearly all hosted on this website, that contain bundles of Kingdoms files. Nobody ever said we couldn't use BI files in RTW either.

But, I think you hit the nail on the head: Your mod uses the Kingdoms .exe. Therefore, your mod is a Kingdoms mod, and needs Kingdoms to work. So does my mod. I think it would be rediculous to say your mod is illegal because it contains Kingdoms files...when it is a Kingdoms mod. Of course it contains Kingdoms files, the entire mod is a Kingdoms file! I think this topic is just silly, by these rules no mod would be permissable, and I've never, ever heard of CA telling somebody to close up their mod shop because it contains files from the game.

I'm going with Unspoken Knights comments and not worrying about. If CA asks me to take my mod down, I will, but, until then this is nonsense.