Seriously....

[Heinz Guderian]

I would never have supported such a bill.

[Harry Lime]

How is a babe (as the expression is commonly known) not a babe unless she shows at the very least her clavicles? It's sad but true, that in the not so enlightened 21st Century, Florence Nightingale is no longer considered pin-up material.

[Viking Prince]

I will admit that my post was one of the spammy deletions to the thread. If it in some way caused the closure of the thread, I apologize.

If PW is truly serious about having this as a proposal -- perhaps a quiet pm to the Curator can be useful to reopen the thread. Perhaps the Curator can then advise the good citizens to behave and treat the topic in a serious manner.

To be honest though -- I cannot believe that this was a serious proposal. Please cite one instance in the USA regarding PG-13 content where the clavicle is an issue. For that manner, cite one issue where such exposure is an issue for any publication, media resource, etc. in the USA or even in the developed world.

[Mímirswell]

He's not serious; he is just unwilling to concede that he was using satire to protest the ToS. Whether satirical posts have an actual purpose should be the discussion here. I think they have some merit when done as a separate thread provided the satire doesn't devolve into silliness (which it threatened to do so in this case) and instead of the prothalamos, perhaps the Curia Main or Symposium. This would make the satire more obvious and those places are better venues for generalized discussion.

[Каие]

No, Mim, it'd still be labelled spam and deleted.

[Desperado †]

PW's sincerity is irrelevant - it is unjustifiable to delete a thread or post as spam on the basis that it is not serious, as this cannot be legitimately proven. Somethings sincerity is a matter of opinion and it's degree of sincerity cannot be proven, and most importantly it is not a violation of the ToS or Constitution.

I understand that such posts could be annoying to those who doubt their sincerity, but anyone may post and debate a proposal that is within the rules in the Prothalamos, and at the end of the day ignoring such posts is easily doable.

[Soulghast]

I'd just like to briefly explain my position.

PW was clearly not serious with his proposal, even though he doesn't want to admit it. Certain past proposals, and the fact that he currently has this album up should be enough to convince anyone.

Now, while I generally don't mind some not entirely serious proposals, PW's proposal was ill-natured and came off more as a troll directed towards the moderation branch, if anything. While I initially decided to delete some posts, post a general warning and not close the thread, after thinking it over and consulting certain persons, I decided to close it.

If people want to have a discussion on the newest ToS changes, they are more than welcome to do so, either in the Curia main or in the QS. But proposing ToS amendments just for the sake of being trollish will not be tolerated.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

PW was clearly not serious with his proposal, even though he doesn't want to admit it. Certain past proposals, and the fact that he currently has this album up should be enough to convince anyone.

I already said that I changed my mind, and was convinced by friends and recent scholarly studies showing that a collarbone is among the top 10 sexiest parts of the female body. Seeing one on Total War Centre could be detrimental to the health of a teenager after he saw his total war soldiers burnt alive or trampled to death. My picture collection of cars can be accessed only by friends and admins. It's like sharing a bottle of wine with friends at a party: you know all of them can drink alcohol. But I am a responsible person, I know that the masses of TWC shouldn't be exposed to such pestilence that would detrimentally affect their sexual development.

Given that you were unable again to provide proper and ample evidence to back up your claim, I call BS. I won't repeat myself from the previous thread, read my posts again.

While I initially decided to delete some posts, post a general warning and not close the thread, after thinking it over and consulting certain persons, I decided to close it.

Can't you decide it your own? It is your moral duty as a Curator to act on your own and be independent from others.

[Viking Prince]

Soulghast made the call. If you really want to gather support, I would suggest you take up the suggestion and begin anew in the Symposium or Curia Main. I am curious as to where this would go, but I also have doubts about this being a practical attempt at getting Curial support. I am not doubting your sincerity. I am questioning the potential for success.

[Soulghast]

I already said that I changed my mind, and was convinced by friends and recent scholarly studies showing that a collarbone is among the top 10 sexiest parts of the female body. Seeing one on Total War Centre could be detrimental to the health of a teenager after he saw his total war soldiers burnt alive or trampled to death. My picture collection of cars can be accessed only by friends and admins. It's like sharing a bottle of wine with friends at a party: you know all of them can drink alcohol. But I am a responsible person, I know that the masses of TWC shouldn't be exposed to such pestilence that would detrimentally affect their sexual development.

I am not on your friends list, and I can see the album. And so can everyone on TWC.

Given that you were unable again to provide proper and ample evidence to back up your claim, I call BS. I won't repeat myself from the previous thread, read my posts again.

It's blatantly obvious that you were just trolling. Still are, actually. I don't need conclusive evidence of your intent to close a thread. It's the internet.

Can't you decide it your own? It is your moral duty as a Curator to act on your own and be independent from others.

I made the decision. The fact that I talked with some people just made me reconsider my stance. I wasn't aware that it wasn't allowed.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

I am not on your friends list, and I can see the album. And so can everyone on TWC.

It is a technical glitch. But if you are so anal about my 1967 Chevrolet Impala, I can report it for you. Geez.

It's blatantly obvious that you were just trolling. Still are, actually. I don't need conclusive evidence of your intent to close a thread. It's the internet..

What's the evidence of your claims again? Are you able to read my mind? You know I can do the same. It is blatantly obvious that you're just trolling/BS-ing here. I can tell it from the look of your eyes, because we're on the interwebs.

I made the decision. The fact that I talked with some people just made me reconsider my stance. I wasn't aware that it wasn't allowed.

The fact that you talk with "some people" instead of making a decision on your own makes me question certain abilities of yours.

[Soulghast]

It is a technical glitch. But if you are so anal about my 1967 Chevrolet Impala, I can report it for you. Geez.

I don't care at all actually. It's just hypocritical.

What's the evidence of your claims again? Are you able to read my mind? You know I can do the same. It is blatantly obvious that you're just trolling/BS-ing here. I can tell it from the look of your eyes, because we're on the interwebs.

I don't need to be able to read your mind in order to point out the obvious. Your album, the tone of your posts, and your history of debating against such "prudish" as you used to call them ToS changes make it clear that you're just protesting about the newest ToS changes. And you know it. Now, you say you changed your mind? Well, given all the above, I just can't believe you.

The fact that you talk with "some people" instead of making a decision on your own makes me question certain abilities of yours.

You are free to VonC me if you're in doubt concerning my abilities.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've explained my position numerous times, and my decision won't change. If you want to keep complaining about it, do it, but I won't reply to any more of your posts. But if I were you, I'd stop.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

meh, delete

[Father Jack]

ooooh drama

[Heinz Guderian]

I think it shows that the Curia is healthy if something is debated with passion and perhaps a little anger. Alot of things that are done with anger are often more pleasurable too. Like having sex. OK, I actually cant think of anything else. But both PW and Soulghast are right.

[imb39]

Just a glimpse of the good ol' days

[Каие]

I think it shows that the Curia is healthy if something is debated with passion and perhaps a little anger. Alot of things that are done with anger are often more pleasurable too. Like having sex. OK, I actually cant think of anything else. But both PW and Soulghast are right.

Are you suggesting Soulghast and Wiz should sort out there differences over pillow talk?

[Heinz Guderian]

Are you suggesting Soulghast and Wiz should sort out there differences over pillow talk?

OMFG asthagfirullah no. May Allah forgive you for what you just made me imagine.

[Junius]

Though it is satire, and I commend PW dedication to the cause, I do agree with the overall sentiment. The ToS fails the majority of the userbase when it decides to pursue a PG-13 site. As has been brought up numerous times, the most recent games have carried ratings of a higher age. While some may argue that TWC is still trying to appeal to the players, speciffically those young players (below the age of 15/16) who still play R:TW or M:TW, the level of activity in the forums which cater to those groups, especially when we consider that age is all important, seriously dents that arguement.

There may still be some who argue that we need a PG-13 site to qualify for a Gold Affliation standard, but what is that standard really worth? Is it worth this site ignoring a proportion of it's users? I say not.

While I am not saying that TWC should become a porn site, I would support a 'Babe's thread', as some others would. While some people may find this offensive or lewd, we should not be limited in what we can do or say or post by the attitudes of others. There are certainly threads in the D&D which some may find offensive, yet they are not closed.

Finally, I find this use of satire and parody useful. It brings up several issues, not only what the OP intended. We have seen what some may consider the overreach of Curatorial authority, and it's challenge. I support PW in his assertation that evidence should be produced to close a thread, not just someone, even in a position of authority and trust, saying that any contradiction of the ToS is 'obvious'. This is not trolling, any more the political satire is trolling. It highlights it's points by bringing to the fore the ridiculousness of the opposition, and doing it in a more humourous, and thus more effective, way. If someone cannot deal with satire and parody, and being the object of fun, inherent to any political position, or one of power, than they should ask themselves if they really should be in that position.

[Belisarius]

Just a glimpse of the good ol' days

No, I'm not involved.