attn: Judeo Christians is there a difference between Sheol and Hell?

[Metaliturtle]

It is my understanding that the Bible references a place called Sheol in the Old Testament, but not Hell, however in the new testament Jesus talks more about Hell than heaven, and it is apparent that everyone who hears him (according to the Bible) knows something about this place.

My Question for discussion

1. Is Sheol just the Hebrew word for Hell or are these two seperate places?

2. Using scripture, what verses mention these places directly or indirectly?


This is just something I've been wondering about, and I would really like to know the Biblical answer to these questions because the people I associate with want exact scriptural references.

Thanks a bunch

Metaliturtle

[Justinian]

I'm a (ex) Christian and a Jew and I don't know any place called Sheol. Little gap in my knowledge there?

[Metaliturtle]

I know I read about it once in the Psalms, and I'm pretty sure it's in proverbs as well... an addendum question would be was there a Hell before the New Testament?

[Manji]

The hell of eternal fire is a medieval creation. Sheol (שאול) is just a term which means "grave, burial place" and does not indicate eternal suffering.
Justinian: so, you are a jew but that doesn't mean you know ALL the hebrew words that exist... or do you, huh? :wink:

[Metaliturtle]

Thank you Manji, way to look up the Hebrew word, but there are still some things left unanswered.

so back to my second question


2. Using scripture, what verses mention these places directly or indirectly?

Or does nobody have any genuine knowledge of the Bible besides an opinion on what the Bible is about?

According to Pastor Israel Haas, "Koine Greek manuscripts that have been dated to within 40 years of Jesus' life still have Christ talking more about Hell than heaven." In my Bible it says that Hell is a lake of fire, but Pastor Israel mentioned that the word used in the Greek had something to do with where waste was dumped outside of Jerusalem. Still, where did the understanding of Hell come from in the Jewish culture of the day?

[Justinian]

Originally Posted by Manji

Justinian: so, you are a jew but that doesn't mean you know ALL the hebrew words that exist... or do you, huh? :wink:

I know one...

Shechet... :wink: Thank you for the increase in knowledge, Manji. I didn't know that.

By the way, I bet Simetrical could answer all your questions, at least the Old Testament-related ones, Metaliturtle.

[Metaliturtle]

By the way, I bet Simetrical could answer all your questions, at least the Old Testament-related ones, Metaliturtle.

Excellent, I hope Simetrical posts on here, part of the reason I posted it was because I found the debate interesting, since the Biblical picture of Hell is different from the secular picture of Hell, and the Old Testament view seems to be different from the New Testament view.

What I would like to see is a compilation of related scripture, so that we can know whether it has been influenced by outside media. (Dante's Inferno, while a very detailed depiction of Hell, still counts as media I think.)

Another interesting thing I found out on the History Channel, the number '666' in revelation may mean "Nero Caesar," and emperor Nero was the first to persecute Christians.

Still another interesting fact from Joseph Waligore, (PhD, Philosophy) was that our common picture of Satan is actually a mutation of the Greco-Roman god, Pan. So, more points if someone finds a description of Satan in the Bible (besides as a serpent in the Garden of Eden)

[GodNeptune]

I think that the Hebrew Sheol is practically the same thing as the Babylonian house of dust, a final resting place for all souls after death. Sheol neither rewards the good nor punishes the bad, and nothing really happens there. I know that it is mentioned in the book of Job and might also be mentioned in Eclessiastes. I don't believe that the Hebrews had any concept of a "hell" until they were conquered by the Persians and exposed to Zoroasterianism. Heaven/Hell is not a Christian invention.

[Metaliturtle]

Very interesting Neptune, do you have more information that I could read about that?

[GodNeptune]

Here is a page that discusses the Persian influence on Hebrew religious thought.

[Metaliturtle]

That's pretty cool, so, according to this, the Jewish religion is like an older religion and Zoroastrianism combined right?

[Saint-Germain]

Don't go believing everything you read.

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall that the original Greek text of the New Testament used several different words that are all simply translated as 'Hell' in the English version. One, I know, is Sheol. Another MAY be Gehenna (a mine - possibly slave-worked - whose name had become a byword for suffering), but don't quote me on it.

As far as I remember, the gist of it was that a verse now translated simply, would have different connotations - like instead of sinners burning inHell forever and ever amen, they would lie in the grave until the Last Trump when they would be cast into the Abyss (un-created, maybe?). I'll have to refresh my memory.

[Rolanbek]

I think that descriptions of Sheol bear some comparison with the christian idea of Limbo. A holding bay for souls as it were.

Menander, you are right Hell has been inconsistantly translated from the greek. Three examples spring to mind, Hades, Tarterus and Gehenna. Descriptions of Gehenna include mounds burning detritus etc, but the others do not. All of these at least have been rendered as Hell at one time or another.

R

[Manji]

How Bible Translators Handle References to the Afterlife:

How many times does the word "Hell" appear in the Bible?
Translation Old Testament New Testament Matthew Mark Revelation
King James Version 31 23 9 3 4
American Standard Version. 0 13 7 3 0
New King James Version 19 13 7 3 0


One has to go back to the original Hebrew and Greek texts to fully understand that nature of "Hell."

The King James Version of the Bible translate three different words as "hell":
bullet Sheol: A Hebrew word which is found 65 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a place locatedunder the world. where everyone goes after death - those who have led good lives and those who have been evil. Its inhabitants lead a sort of shadowy existence, without energy, and isolated from God. They stay there forever.
bullet Hades: A Greek word which is found 10 times in the Christian Scriptures. It is a type of transitional word. Sometimes it means a place under the earth where everyone ends up after death. Other times, it is a place where evil people are punished after death.
bullet Gehenna: A Greek word which is found 13 times in the Christian Scriptures. It refers to a place of punishment or destruction for the wicked. It is based on an actual geographical location: a burning garbage dump in the Valley of Hinnom. This is a deep and narrow valley where the garbage from the city of Jerusalem was thrown in ancient times. It is also believed to have been a place of human sacrifice; infants where thrown into the fire by worshipers of the Pagan gods Moloch and Baal. Later, the Roman occupying army discarded the bodies of all victims of crucifixion there.

Bible translators are faced with a quandary over "hell." They have to deal with 3 words (one Hebrew and one Greek) which Biblical writers have used to describe different destinations after death:
bullet They want to translate the Bible so that it appears to be consistent to the reader. That is, an ancient Hebrew author's description must match that of the 1st century author's writings. Otherwise, the Bible will be seen to teach very different beliefs about Hell, in different passages. The concept of Biblical inerrancy (freedom of error) would become meaningless.
bullet They want to be true to the original text, which describe some very different destinations for the dead.

The translators of the King James Version (KJV) tended to translate all three words: Sheol, Hades and Gehenna, as Hell. This had the advantage of making the Bible appear internally consistent. But many theologians believe that it disguises the variety of beliefs of the ancient Israelites who were under the influence of Greek culture and the writers of the Christian Scriptures. Some religious conservatives criticize the translation because it treats two different places as if they were a single location.

In 31 locations, the KJV translates Sheol as grave. This obscures the meaning of the passages. It sometimes produces very different images, as in Genesis 37:36 where:
bullet The KJV describes Jacob going "down into the grave onto my son." This gives the impression of Jacob digging down into the earth, uncovering his son's body.
bullet The NIV has Jacob going "down to the grave to my son." This implies that Jacob was visiting the location where his son is buried.
bullet The RSV has him go "down to Sheol to my son." This has Jacob going into the caverns under the earth where his son would be living in a type of shadowy existence.

In 3 cases, the KJV translates Sheol as Pit.

The writers of the RSV, NRSV and other versions tried a different approach. They transliterated Sheol and Hades into English. So, the reader is able to see the original Hebrew and Greek words mixed in with the English text. They translated Gehenna as Hell.

[Rolanbek]

I thought that looked better here

http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl2.htm

R

[Manji]

Huh? Sure, whatever.

[Atheist Peace]

Manji, next time can you specify that you are quoting something or someone else please? It avoids any problems and/or confusion. Thanks

[Saint-Germain]

Thanks for clearing that up, Manji. That was indeed what I was referring to (with varying degrees of accuracy).