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Thread: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    I've been somewhat interested in this idea ever since I heard about the investigative works of the late Ian Stevenson (2007), a psychiatrist and Director of the Division of Perceptual Studies at the University of Virginia School of Medicine. He is mentioned in the video below by the author Carol Bowman, who collaborated with him in studying the cases of children who claimed to have memories of past lives that were effecting them in the here and now. This includes roughly 800 documented cases by Stevenson. In this video (at a conference in Spain, hence the introduction in Spanish), Bowman speaks about her son, then five years old at the time in 1988, when he began professing to have been a black soldier wounded in a war by a gunshot to the wrist. He showed a clear phobia for explosions and fireworks before his revelations, and under hypnosis explained the reason why. He claimed that in his previous life, after his wounded wrist was bandaged in a field hospital while he rested on a bench-like bed, he was sent back to the battlefield to mind the artillery pieces drawn by horses and was ultimately blown up by enemy cannon fire. He drew pictures of the medical camp where he was treated, which somewhat resembles the American Civil War field hospital.



    It's pretty striking to hear this testimony and see the drawings of this sort of thing from a five-year-old, but judging by the case studies of Ian Stevenson, is not exceptional. I was also rather taken aback by the child's claim that he was above the battlefield after being blown up, and was glad to leave the carnage and the death. I also found it interesting that he claimed that, as a spirit who had left the body, he was able to travel around space and time quickly.

    By the end of the video she cites the case of James Leininger, born 1998, but as a young child claimed to be an American fighter pilot in WWII also named James, and flew his (Vought F4U) Corsair from the USS Natoma Bay aircraft carrier. When his father pressed him about any friends he had, the child said "Jack Larson." When researching the names of the people on the Natoma, they indeed found a Jack Larson. Like Bowman's kid, James also made drawings of his alleged past life, including planes being shot down. It appears there was a 21-year-old pilot named James Houston who was also on the Natoma and was shot down in 1945. As the video shows, little James Leininger had a "reunion" with the elderly Jack Larson, along with his alleged sister from a past life, Ann Houston. Upon invitation by a Japanese film company, Leininger also visited the place in Japan near Iwo Jima where James Houston was shot down and threw a bouquet of flowers there at the memorial site, saying he would "never forget you" (i.e. his alleged former self, James Houston).

  2. #2

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    By the end of the video she cites the case of James Leininger, born 1998, but as a young child claimed to be an American fighter pilot in WWII also named James, and flew his (Vought F4U) Corsair from the USS Natoma Bay aircraft carrier. When his father pressed him about any friends he had, the child said "Jack Larson." When researching the names of the people on the Natoma, they indeed found a Jack Larson. Like Bowman's kid, James also made drawings of his alleged past life, including planes being shot down. It appears there was a 21-year-old pilot named James Houston who was also on the Natoma and was shot down in 1945. As the video shows, little James Leininger had a "reunion" with the elderly Jack Larson, along with his alleged sister from a past life, Ann Houston. Upon invitation by a Japanese film company, Leininger also visited the place in Japan near Iwo Jima where James Houston was shot down and threw a bouquet of flowers there at the memorial site, saying he would "never forget you" (i.e. his alleged former self, James Houston).
    Now that - I will concede - is odd... However I don't think we should discount the possibility that these children subconsciously pick things up, and then transfer them into memories. Or the more cynical interpretations that are possible e.g. Did this Japanese Company pay them?
    When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

    - John Ball (1381)

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleonic Bonapartism View Post
    Now that - I will concede - is odd... However I don't think we should discount the possibility that these children subconsciously pick things up, and then transfer them into memories. Or the more cynical interpretations that are possible e.g. Did this Japanese Company pay them?
    His invitation by the Japanese film company to visit Japan occurred when he was nine years old; he was three years old when he started speaking about his past life memories. So no, the Japanese film company invited him to the site long after he was a well-known and documented case, even in mainstream media (ABC News did a report on him before that point, if I recall correctly).

    Also, how does a five-year-old subconsciously pick up ideas that he was a friend in a previous life to a still living person (i.e. Jack Larson, who supposedly served alongside him on the Natoma)? It would be one thing if he just recounted a generic story about a fighter pilot. These details, however, are quite specific.

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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    I'll admit it is odd - I was more thinking the parents were involved in some way. As for the subconscious; I'm not entirely sure, the news perhaps? I'm really just applying Occam's Razor here.
    When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

    - John Ball (1381)

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleonic Bonapartism View Post
    I'll admit it is odd - I was more thinking the parents were involved in some way. As for the subconscious; I'm not entirely sure, the news perhaps? I'm really just applying Occam's Razor here.
    And indeed you should be searching for the simplest explanation. Given the repetitive pattern, however, of literally hundreds of children with similar stories and experiences in cases documented around the world during the past few decades (i.e. offering specific details about past lives and people they knew, past life memories consistently fading between the ages of 6 to 9, ingrained phobias about certain things that trigger these memories, physical anomalies or conditions on a certain spot of the body that mirror an injury resulting in traumatic death in a previous life, etc.), it would appear the simplest answer is there is something going on here that defies explanation, at least via our attempts with the scientific method.

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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    5573
    One candidate is supposedly Mozart.

    One case I heard of where a (Caucasian?) kid suddenly started spouting Mandarin, Cantonese or Vietnamese, and when reserachers carefully backtracked his life, they discovered that the family lived for a time near an Asian restaurant.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

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    Ciciro's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    And indeed you should be searching for the simplest explanation. Given the repetitive pattern, however, of literally hundreds of children with similar stories and experiences in cases documented around the world during the past few decades (i.e. offering specific details about past lives and people they knew, past life memories consistently fading between the ages of 6 to 9, ingrained phobias about certain things that trigger these memories, physical anomalies or conditions on a certain spot of the body that mirror an injury resulting in traumatic death in a previous life, etc.), it would appear the simplest answer is there is something going on here that defies explanation, at least via our attempts with the scientific method.
    The simplest answer is that it is just a string of coincidences.

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    5573
    One candidate is supposedly Mozart.

    One case I heard of where a (Caucasian?) kid suddenly started spouting Mandarin, Cantonese or Vietnamese, and when reserachers carefully backtracked his life, they discovered that the family lived for a time near an Asian restaurant.
    Hah! That would explain it, seeing how our brains are able to absorb and pick up on multiple languages very easily in those first few crucial years of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciciro View Post
    The simplest answer is that it is just a string of coincidences.
    Over eight-hundred officially documented cases of this phenomenon (all of them isolated from each other) from about 1970 to 2007 is a pretty big whopping coincidence.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Over eight-hundred officially documented cases of this phenomenon (all of them isolated from each other) from about 1970 to 2007 is a pretty big whopping coincidence.
    If reincarnation was the solution to the problem however, what would be surprising is that there are only 800 of them. Furthermore, a great deal of people (I don't know the statistic exactly, but I'd wager it was in the same ballpark) claim to have had NDEs where they see God and Jesus etc. As such this would seem to theologically contradict with the testimonies of those 800 - it ends up boiling down to a question of who do you believe more?
    When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

    - John Ball (1381)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Before I start criticizing your idea, I just want to say that I consider it a valid scientific hypothesis and I will treat it with the exact same skepticism all new scientific ideas are treated with. Let's consider your hypothesis:

    Here's a question: why are most of the memories from historical periods that people know and care the most about? A young American boy believing (or being told to believe) that he was an American fighter pilot seems too convenient in an America where most young boys and their parents know about WW2 American fighter pilots.

    Our species spent 99% of the time it has existed as hunter gatherers. If people can really remember past lives, we should expect most of them to be from this period. Yet so few of them are. Most of the memories are from the bits of history that are familiar to the child: do you really think that is a coincidence? Why didn't the boy have memories of being a hunter gatherer 100,000 years ago? I think it's simply because he and his parents don't know much about that.

    Why is it even limited to our species, and how do you even define "our species"? When did the first person have their first past life? Why wasn't it at the beginning of life? Why aren't there people who remember being strange beasts from our evolutionary past? You could argue "people don't remember being microbes because microbes don't have our kind of memories". But our early mammalian ancestors for example, looked something like mice and shrews and certainly had memory. Why can noone remember being them? They are literally our great-grandparents.

    I hope I don't come across as too harsh. The case you've presented is a falsifiable scientific hypothesis. I'd be very interested in hearing your response to my criticism.
    Last edited by Enros; March 13, 2015 at 01:23 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    5961
    I think a lot of them are Thetans.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Over eight-hundred officially documented cases of this phenomenon (all of them isolated from each other) from about 1970 to 2007 is a pretty big whopping coincidence.
    And these past 37 years have had an unparalleled period of piece and communication, so you could argue these are delusions of people who have nothing better to do with their time and new ways to spread them.

    Another thing is 37 years is a long time and several billion people have likely born and died in that time, think about how many people could have their own stories that they tell themselves, surely some of them will be somewhat accurate eventually.

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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    While I believe that reincarnation is possible and is something that does happen from time-to-time, I'm a bit more skeptical of "past life memories".

    Either way, in treating this as a scientific hypothesis and something that can be studied and measures, it has to be held to scientific scrutiny. Okay, he's suggested that reincarnation is true and people remember their past-lives. By what method? What's the mechanism? How are the memories stored? How are they 'transferred'? It opens up a lot of questions that need to be satisfactorily answered.

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    Before I start criticizing your idea, I just want to say that I consider it a valid scientific hypothesis and I will treat it with the exact same skepticism all new scientific ideas are treated with. Let's consider your hypothesis:

    Here's a question: why are most of the memories from historical periods that people know and care the most about? A young American boy believing (or being told to believe) that he was an American fighter pilot seems too convenient in an America where most young boys and their parents know about WW2 American fighter pilots.

    Our species spent 99% of the time it has existed as hunter gatherers. If people can really remember past lives, we should expect most of them to be from this period. Yet so few of them are. Most of the memories are from the bits of history that are familiar to the child: do you really think that is a coincidence? Why didn't the boy have memories of being a hunter gatherer 100,000 years ago? I think it's simply because he and his parents don't know much about that.

    Why is it even limited to our species, and how do you even define "our species"? When did the first person have their first past life? Why wasn't it at the beginning of life? Why aren't there people who remember being strange beasts from our evolutionary past? You could argue "people don't remember being microbes because microbes don't have our kind of memories". But our early mammalian ancestors for example, looked something like mice and shrews and certainly had memory. Why can noone remember being them? They are literally our great-grandparents.

    I hope I don't come across as too harsh. The case you've presented is a falsifiable scientific hypothesis. I'd be very interested in hearing your response to my criticism.
    1. There is and will be exponentially more people alive recurring as time goes on being as our population as a species has grown considerably by massive degrees particularly over the last 3 centuries so it would be considerably more likely and considerably unlikely to remember something from before these times as conceivably there is more of us by far now than there used to be. There has been trillions of rebirths over the last 3 centuries compared to perhaps billions from hunter and gather times, with a population of a 100k recurring compared to 1 billion rising to 7 billion recurring. Not really tried to do any really hard calculations on what numbers could be but you get the idea.

    2. On the dubious logic that it could happen I assume you'd remember the most recent lives not the ones that happens 20000 years ago. If there is nay logic in this situation then that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximiIian View Post
    While I believe that reincarnation is possible and is something that does happen from time-to-time, I'm a bit more skeptical of "past life memories".

    Either way, in treating this as a scientific hypothesis and something that can be studied and measures, it has to be held to scientific scrutiny. Okay, he's suggested that reincarnation is true and people remember their past-lives. By what method? What's the mechanism? How are the memories stored? How are they 'transferred'? It opens up a lot of questions that need to be satisfactorily answered.
    If you believe it can happen I guess why not believe in past life memories?
    Last edited by Denny Crane!; March 15, 2015 at 04:34 AM.

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    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciciro View Post
    The simplest answer is that it is just a string of coincidences.
    The simplest explanation is the gullibility of people and the manipulation of parents, friends etc.
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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    If you believe it can happen I guess why not believe in past life memories?
    They're separate concepts, so I've no reason to assume that reincarnation automatically implies past-life memories.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    The simplest explanation is the gullibility of people and the manipulation of parents, friends etc.
    A while ago, didn't you used to be a Christian and make pro-Christianity posts? Or am I mistaken?

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    Before I start criticizing your idea, I just want to say that I consider it a valid scientific hypothesis and I will treat it with the exact same skepticism all new scientific ideas are treated with. Let's consider your hypothesis:

    Here's a question: why are most of the memories from historical periods that people know and care the most about? A young American boy believing (or being told to believe) that he was an American fighter pilot seems too convenient in an America where most young boys and their parents know about WW2 American fighter pilots.

    Our species spent 99% of the time it has existed as hunter gatherers. If people can really remember past lives, we should expect most of them to be from this period. Yet so few of them are. Most of the memories are from the bits of history that are familiar to the child: do you really think that is a coincidence? Why didn't the boy have memories of being a hunter gatherer 100,000 years ago? I think it's simply because he and his parents don't know much about that.

    Why is it even limited to our species, and how do you even define "our species"? When did the first person have their first past life? Why wasn't it at the beginning of life? Why aren't there people who remember being strange beasts from our evolutionary past? You could argue "people don't remember being microbes because microbes don't have our kind of memories". But our early mammalian ancestors for example, looked something like mice and shrews and certainly had memory. Why can noone remember being them? They are literally our great-grandparents.

    I hope I don't come across as too harsh. The case you've presented is a falsifiable scientific hypothesis. I'd be very interested in hearing your response to my criticism.
    These are all valid critiques of how reincarnation, if such a thing exists, is supposed to work. Aside from our conjecture, obviously we'll never know the real reason why most people, adults but especially children, who have past life memories tend to claim a relatively recent life, and a human one at that. However, I've recently seen a BBC documentary where an English guy not only claimed to be a man in the 17th-century English Civil War on the side of Cromwell, but also a girl who claimed to be a deer in a past life. Lol. The interesting part about the English guy, though, was that the name he claimed to have in his past life indeed matched up with one "John Rafael" in a parish registry (from Comstock, if I recall correctly) from the town he claimed to be from, preserved in a 17th-century manuscript showing the names of then recently married couples and their properties. He also drew pictures of the church as he "remembered" it from his past life, accurately depicting vegetation growing at the top of it, but also a steeple that once existed on the top of the church but was taken down in the early 18th century. Weird, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzard View Post
    Another thing is 37 years is a long time and several billion people have likely born and died in that time, think about how many people could have their own stories that they tell themselves, surely some of them will be somewhat accurate eventually.
    If reincarnation is an actual thing and not something in the creative imaginations of these children with past life memories, it would still be mathematically and physically impossible for every new person to have a reincarnated soul, considering the exponential growth of our species, as Denny Crane deftly pointed out above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    The simplest explanation is the gullibility of people and the manipulation of parents, friends etc.
    Lol. You got evidence that Prof. Ian Stevenson from the University of Virginia was a fraud who purposefully manipulated the children and their parents when he interviewed them in the field? In nearly a thousand cases? Surely if that was the case there would have been someone, from at least a handful of these cases, who would come to speak out against him for obvious tampering.

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    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    A while ago, didn't you used to be a Christian and make pro-Christianity posts? Or am I mistaken?
    Your not wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Lol. You got evidence that Prof. Ian Stevenson from the University of Virginia was a fraud who purposefully manipulated the children and their parents when he interviewed them in the field? In nearly a thousand cases? Surely if that was the case there would have been someone, from at least a handful of these cases, who would come to speak out against him for obvious tampering.
    I didnt even refer to the professor. In all likelihood the majority of these cases are the parents lying to the children, and inducing their own delusional thinking. Theres probably alot of collusion on the part of any "academic" who claims this has validity as well. No, I dont have proof, but I'm not going to require proof the next time I dismiss some mystics powers to heal, or jesus on a flat bread either.
    Last edited by Squiggle; March 16, 2015 at 02:07 AM.
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    As for politics, I'm an Anarchist. I hate governments and rules and fetters. Can't stand caged animals. People must be free.
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    TestudoAubreii's Avatar Bugger Bamfield!
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    Default Re: Past life memories of children and reincarnation of the spirit, if such a thing exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    By the end of the video she cites the case of James Leininger, born 1998, but as a young child claimed to be an American fighter pilot in WWII also named James, and flew his (Vought F4U) Corsair from the USS Natoma Bay aircraft carrier. When his father pressed him about any friends he had, the child said "Jack Larson." When researching the names of the people on the Natoma, they indeed found a Jack Larson. Like Bowman's kid, James also made drawings of his alleged past life, including planes being shot down. It appears there was a 21-year-old pilot named James Houston who was also on the Natoma and was shot down in 1945. As the video shows, little James Leininger had a "reunion" with the elderly Jack Larson, along with his alleged sister from a past life, Ann Houston. Upon invitation by a Japanese film company, Leininger also visited the place in Japan near Iwo Jima where James Houston was shot down and threw a bouquet of flowers there at the memorial site, saying he would "never forget you" (i.e. his alleged former self, James Houston).
    This happened a while ago and I thought it was exposed as an elaborate hoax involving his father.


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