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Thread: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

  1. #1

    Icon1 [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    I think clavicles are way too luscious, therefore they should be banned from this PG-13 site. We should protect the children from being exposed to sexually implicit content.

    Any figure whose genitals, pubic hair, buttocks, or (if female) nipples, areolas or clavicles are exposed, partially or totally; or are not exposed, but it's clear that this is only because of the angle of the shot or incidental intervening objects (e.g., hands, hair, bits of cloth).

    Just think of it...



    A collarbone today, naked areolas tomorrow?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    I still think she's sexy. Don't care what anyone says.

  3. #3
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Great screen PW.

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  4. #4
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Massed men firing volleys of musket fire into each other, the stench of the young dead strewn upon the fields of Europe...excellent!

    Naked human body...CHRIST PROTECT ME FROM THE IMAGE OF THE FORM THY FATHER HAS SCULPTED THE!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Seriously though I don't see the similarity between nipples and that neck bit you're harping on about Wizzle. I know you're trying to make a point but and all.... but... no.

  6. #6
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Because the ToS' clauses on nudity, besides being awkwardly titillating in their own right, are ridiculous.

    I've always hated it's clauses on nudity and "illegal activities".

    SMOKING POT NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE! <-technically that is in violation of the illegal activities clause of the ToS.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    It's not like the nudity clause is enforced so anally. Hotspur had like a gallery of a whole bunch of suspect pictures... if we go by the letter and apostrophe of the ToS. It's just there to say... look no nipples, cocks and boobs.

  8. #8
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle


  9. #9
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Support. Clavicles are a gateway area, you know what this will lead to. Belly buttons, calves, thighs, the progression is unescapable.

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  10. #10
    Nikos's Avatar VENGEANCE BURNS
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Support, I also support the banning of any skin. I mean look at this floozy here!

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  11. #11

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Massed men firing volleys of musket fire into each other, the stench of the young dead strewn upon the fields of Europe...excellent!

    Naked human body...CHRIST PROTECT ME FROM THE IMAGE OF THE FORM THY FATHER HAS SCULPTED THE!
    The rules are designed to support the notion that a parent would approve of this site given the content of the site is not significantly different than the content of the game (in terms of violence, nudity, profanity). If the unaltered TW games start showing naked human bodies then clearly we can rethink site policy on this matter; until then, I do not think you have much of a chance of convincing Hex to change this policy.

  12. #12
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    The rules are designed to support the notion that a parent would approve of this site given the content of the site is not significantly different than the content of the game (in terms of violence, nudity, profanity). If the unaltered TW games start showing naked human bodies then clearly we can rethink site policy on this matter; until then, I do not think you have much of a chance of convincing Hex to change this policy.
    No .

    Thank you for enlightening me, I would not have been able to elucidate the purpose of those rules without your commentary.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Because the ToS' clauses on nudity, besides being awkwardly titillating in their own right, are ridiculous.
    Given you said they were ridiculous, I could only assume you didn't understand why they existed; else, your statement wouldn't make much sense as that is hardly a ridiculous reason for those rules to be included in the ToS. Certainly, counterpoints could and do exist but they are not so strong that the governing reason is to be ridiculed.

  14. #14
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    Given you said they were ridiculous, I could only assume you didn't understand why they existed; else, your statement wouldn't make much sense as that is hardly a ridiculous reason for those rules to be included in the ToS. Certainly, counterpoints could and do exist but they are not so strong that the governing reason is to be ridiculed.
    I do think they are ridiculous. I think more reasonable and more lax standards could be introduced which would still enable TWC to be a "teen-safe" site. But my experience on this site and on the ToS Committee has shown me that change comes rarely, if not at all, and not in the direction that I support. But, being the pragmatist I am, I understand the reasons why Hex has the ToS the way it is, but I still disagree, and I'm still allowed my childish protests if I see fit to do so. Not to mention my comment is more or less disagreement with the American standard of what is and isn't acceptable for children - a different topic altogether - but I wish to express my displeasure at TWC's implicit endorsment of such societal standards in my own immature manner.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Not to mention my comment is more or less disagreement with the American standard of what is and isn't acceptable for children - a different topic altogether - but I wish to express my displeasure at TWC's implicit endorsment of such societal standards in my own immature manner.
    If you want to argue that the American standard is ridiculous then feel free but it would better be argued in the D&D than here. In regards to your second point, TWC is a site that depends upon heavy traffic to grow and prosper and that's not achieved by defying basic cultural mores of a large percentage of its membership (even if said mores are illogical). Also, it is not an implicit endorsement so much as it is a basic survival strategy of virtually any organization/company that acts within the North American market.

    I think more reasonable and more lax standards could be introduced which would still enable TWC to be a "teen-safe" site.
    Certainly, minor changes could be made in the ToS but outright nudity is not one of them.

  16. #16
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    If you want to argue that the American standard is ridiculous then feel free but it would better be argued in the D&D than here. In regards to your second point, TWC is a site that depends upon heavy traffic to grow and prosper and that's not achieved by defying basic cultural mores of a large percentage of its membership (even if said mores are illogical). Also, it is not an implicit endorsement so much as it is a basic survival strategy of virtually any organization/company that acts within the North American market.
    This is, like you said, more suited for the D&D. If you want to discuss this further, go ahead and make a topic, but I feel that we may end up agreeing.

    Like I said, I understand why TWC does what it does, but I disagree with how it goes about some of it.

    Certainly, minor changes could be made in the ToS but outright nudity is not one of them.
    I agree. There are minors here and it is illegal for anything of a pornographic nature to be disseminated to them. That said, artistic, historical, or otherwise "tasteful" nudity in a proper and academic context should be allowed, and generally it is. The ToS is flexible and TWC relies heavily on the good judgment of its moderators, but the wording is absurd, in my opinion. You don't need to list in explicit detail what part of the female anatomy is allowed and what isn't. The Miller test really should be applied here, imo.

    Now, on the other hand how "illegal activities" are addressed (it's not illegal to discuss past drug use, for example, but the ToS interprets that as such) bothers me. Yes, moderator judgment calls into question whether or not the bending of that rule is in a proper context, and they generally get it right.

    My biggest issue is the phrase "normal and acceptable behavior".
    Quote Originally Posted by The ToS
    ...or portraying it as normal or acceptable (e.g., casually mentioning that you have pirated games/smoked pot/etc. as though this were normal and acceptable).
    "Normal and acceptable" is subjective. What is normal and acceptable? Is it what Garb thinks it is? You? Me? The moderator? There are behaviors that I find perfectly normal and acceptable that others do not, even people who are part of the same social group as I. Now, I'm not a moral relativist, I think there are some morals that are universal, that killing, theft, rape, etc, are pretty much frowned upon in every culture because of the damage it does to the community. Maybe that could be a baseline for normal and acceptable...but what if we put it in context?

    Say a member casually mentioned that they, for example, raped someone? Should that member be infracted on site for that crime? I mean is that necessary? To me that seems pointless. Contact the authorities if you believe that was real. What if they raped someone, but served their sentence? Should they be infracted for that? That clause is totally superfluous and unnecessary, I've had nothing but problems with it since it was introduced. It's too judgmental. The ToS, like law, should be impartial.

    My other problem is with the censored words, it's not very important but I think all non-insulting "curse" words should be uncensored, but I'm not losing any sleep over that.
    Last edited by Dayman; July 23, 2009 at 09:45 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    yeah. I'll Support

  18. #18

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    You don't need to list in explicit detail what part of the female anatomy is allowed and what isn't. The Miller test really should be applied here, imo.
    Ideally, I agree with this; practically, I feel it causes difficulties. It falls into the same trap of the "normal and acceptable" clause you discuss below. What I feel crosses the threshold to pornography is different from everyone else and inevitably, without strict guidelines, more than one member ends up getting burned. Perhaps the "normal and acceptable" clause needs a similar treatment (or better examples) of what's ok to say and what isn't.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    Ideally, I agree with this; practically, I feel it causes difficulties. It falls into the same trap of the "normal and acceptable" clause you discuss below. What I feel crosses the threshold to pornography is different from everyone else and inevitably, without strict guidelines, more than one member ends up getting burned. Perhaps the "normal and acceptable" clause needs a similar treatment (or better examples) of what's ok to say and what isn't.
    I think collarbones are not acceptable, as they:
    1./ display outright nudity;
    2./ are one of the sexiest parts of the female body according to several surveys.

    In these aspects they are similar to buttocks, nipples, pubic hair and genitals. Except that there's nothing sexual inflammatory in pubic hair. In fact, it is a major turn-off for most people. Now if you apply the above-mentioned criteria to other parts of the female body, you will also have to ban calves, lips and so on. For example, I’ve always been a sucker for the back of a woman’s neck; I love it when girls wear their hair up so that you can see it. On the other hand, it could be detrimental to post women's bare necks on the interwebs.

    Think of it, sleep on it, pray on it.

  20. #20
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: [ToS Change] Obscene Content - Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    I think collarbones are not acceptable, as they:
    1./ display outright nudity;
    2./ are one of the sexiest parts of the female body according to several surveys.

    In these aspects they are similar to buttocks, nipples, pubic hair and genitals. Except that there's nothing sexual inflammatory in pubic hair. In fact, it is a major turn-off for most people. Now if you apply the above-mentioned criteria to other parts of the female body, you will also have to ban calves, lips and so on. For example, I’ve always been a sucker for the back of a woman’s neck; I love it when girls wear their hair up so that you can see it. On the other hand, it could be detrimental to post women's bare necks on the interwebs.

    Think of it, sleep on it, pray on it.


    If you cannot honestly understand the difference between the neck/collarbones and various parts of female genitalia, then if anyone needs to think about things, it's you, not us.
    Last edited by Thanatos; July 24, 2009 at 02:22 AM.

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