effective phalanx with pike and sword

[Valiant Champion]

Attachment 217300

updated

[Aper]

Hi, I saw you reduced the last value on the stat_pri line to 0.001, what effect is this supposed to have?

I know in RTW this value was called "lethality" and set how much chance the soldiers had of actually killing the enemy on a successful strike, but in M2TW it apparently doesn't work this way anymore, what is its purpose now?

Thanks

[Col. Tartleton]

I don't know what Taji was concerned about. Did he think heavy cavalry would ever charge into Pikes from the front? I don't think the objective of a battle was to create a positive kill ratio. It was to kill the enemy and not die.

Phalanxes are only defeated head on when they're in terrain that breaks up the formation and they can be exploited by medium infantry like the Roman Legions who have javelins, big shields, swords, and the tenacity to get inside of phalanx after they bombard them with javelins and carve them up. Plus those are the equivalent of levy Phalanxes. Alexandrian Pezhetairoi would crush a Roman Maniple from the front.

Whenever the Pike by professional soldiers was used it completely changed the balance of warfare. It's supposed to be OP when it plays to it's strength.

[Valiant Champion]

Hi, I saw you reduced the last value on the stat_pri line to 0.001, what effect is this supposed to have?

I know in RTW this value was called "lethality" and set how much chance the soldiers had of actually killing the enemy on a successful strike, but in M2TW it apparently doesn't work this way anymore, what is its purpose now?

Thanks

the lower the number the higher the lethality.

the number has to be a positive and cannot be a zero from my experience.

[Aper]

the lower the number the higher the lethality.

the number has to be a positive and cannot be a zero from my experience.

Thanks.

You or any other modder have discovered how this work, like a formula or something like that, or do you have only your empirical data?

I ask because AFAIK there's a little confusion around the forums about that last entry in the "stat_pri", and I can't understand who's right.

Good work by the way

[Valiant Champion]

this post contained incorrect information

[Valiant Champion]

i have beeen doing a ot of modding in rome total war and learned a lot of basic things that i didnt know. a lot of stuff that makes many of my ideas pretty retarded.

0 is the fastest animation period. if you want your weapon regardless of what it is to perform best use 0. the other skeleton offset needs to be fine tuned to the specific unit and weapon. 1 is the value the original developers of mtw2 planned for all the skeletons. than they were fine tuned using the skeleton offset for balance

in example spear units perform best at 1 but are usually set at 0.6 so they would be weaker versus sword units for balance purposes. two handed axe units used 1.33 cause it worked the best to get the extra balance for axes.

with pikes 1.2 seems to be the sweet spot for pikes without a reduced radius while 1 works best for those with reduced radius.

however i have made a shift away from pike and sword lately and decided on using halberd primary animation for pikes without sword.

using pike primary makes them way overpowered but using halberd primary with long_pike in attributes with secondary weapon quoted out gives them stand off fighting but also allowing enemy units to get closer in to cause damages enough to balance the unit without drastically reducing its stats and delaying its attack value.

which i always wanted them to fight with pikes only but hated the balancing issues. using halberd primary (dismounted_halbrudder but also works with swiss_guard animation placed in the soldier line of the edu entry). i.e. (soldier swiss_guard)

you should give the halberd primary modification a chance. the advantage is that you can use normal file spacing but to prevent turn around i suggest still using a 1.8 setting for the rank distance. (i.e. 1.2, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, phalanx). you dont have to babysit them.

other ideas i have experimented with over the years involved schiltrom. you give the unit the soldier animation (dismounted_halbbruder or swiss_guard) but not use long_pike in attributes. you also give the unit schiltrom option in the formation line. be sure the unit mass is at least 4. and you might have to possiby increase your defense skill to provide more resistance to charges. and give the unit a spear_bonus_12 to help it take the horses down faster.

in total there are 4 different pike configurations i have messed with.

one simply used rank and file changes 0.8, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3 (narrowed file spacing to reduced run throughs and help the unit keep to pikes longer and keep them indefinitely in guard mode and stationary)

second was the schiltrom modification where i used a solder animation in the EDU from a halberd unit and quoting out the secondary weapon. and removing long_pike attribute (unit wont fight correctly in defence while in schitrom if it has long_pike attribute)

third is the reduced radius and spacing as described all through this thread

fourth using a halberd primary animation by using a halberd unit name in the soldier line (swiss guard etc) and retaining the long pike attribute. and increase rank spacing to 1.8 to keep the unit facing forward most of the time. i.e. (1.2, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, phalanx)

of course if you dont know a little about modding the edu entry than i would need to actually copy paste examples.

[Aneirin]

Many thank's for your explanations.
But how do I indefinitely set the unit in guard mode?