Controlling reinforcements

[Lord Ovaat]

I've checked my preference settings, I've searched the forum, but I can't find any reason why I cannot control my own reinforcements on the tactical map. They certainly enter the map, and as usual, suicide their cav and archers into the lion's den. Whenever I try to assume control, they will "highlight", but I can't designate an area for them to move to--anywhere. I haven't had this problem with MTW2 or any mods for it until now. Anyone know why?

[Kalos]

Do you have 20 units already on the map? If so you can't control any more. Did you uncheck the "AI control" box? If not, then the AI will control it. There are 2 boxes, 1 of them is AI control, the second is "Control this army". All the second box means is that you can designate general strategy of the army via Defensive, Shootout, or Aggressive stances. BOTH must be unchecked for you to actually control the units.

[Byz]

Originally Posted by Kalos

Do you have 20 units already on the map? If so you can't control any more. Did you uncheck the "AI control" box? If not, then the AI will control it. There are 2 boxes, 1 of them is AI control, the second is "Control this army". All the second box means is that you can designate general strategy of the army via Defensive, Shootout, or Aggressive stances. BOTH must be unchecked for you to actually control the units.

I'm not sure where that's an issue with this mod as I quite regularly designate the area where reinforcements (beyond 20 units) can move in other mods. TATW is the only mod I've played where I cannot tell them where to move. Granted, they don't listen to me very well when I do this in other mods and it's a poorly coded portion of the game, but it is just a big red x in TATW, preventing me from even telling them what general direction to move in.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

Can this be messed up in the new patch? I remember controlling an AI army (in the usual vague way) in 1.2, but in 1.3 I once had the same issue like Lord Ovaat.

[Lord Ovaat]

Yes, I do have a full stack, and I'm bringing in another full stack, which does enter the map. I've verified both boxes are checked before accepting to fight on the map. With other mods, and vanilla, I've had two or more stacks vs two or more AI stacks without problem. OK, some lag at times, lol, but I can control. And, as I've said, preferences are set for "unlimited men on battlefield"--true. I did do a clean MTW2, Kingdoms, and patch 1.5 install before installing TATW, so I'm at a loss. Personally, I don't know how to beat an AI stack with seven units of trolls and uruks unless I can control the suicide units. Artillery is overrun before their third shots, and even 12 units of archers don't do enough damage to stop trolls before being pounded. Those dudes are about as fast as cav. I can't remember anything else that needs to be checked/corrected to enable reinforcement control. I was really hoping it was something with the mod that I could change. Oh well. I guess my only option is to "Run away!"

[Byz]

Originally Posted by Hermes Trismegistos

Can this be messed up in the new patch? I remember controlling an AI army (in the usual vague way) in 1.2, but in 1.3 I once had the same issue like Lord Ovaat.

It would have to be--I think the reinforcement system is messed up anyway (unless I'm misunderstanding something). I always have two stacks that I use to make a concerted push in one direction--a throwaway stack full of units I expect to incur heavy losses (e.g. a meat shield) and a stack full of units that I try to protect from as many losses as possible. I remember one battle where I used my throwaway stack to attack an enemy and DECLINED TO USE my main stack at all--no controlled by AI, no controlling the army myself, just reserved so that those units would only enter the battlefield once some of my units had either retreated or died off completely. The plan was to whittle them down as much as possible with my throwaway units and finish them off with a general and horsearchers. No matter how many times I tried to do this it would still automatically bring that reserve stack in under AI control and they would of course do their stupid suicide run.

[Kalos]

If you need reinforcements to win a battle, you're doing something wrong.

[Blackorc]

Originally Posted by Kalos

If you need reinforcements to win a battle, you're doing something wrong.

Jeah sure 8000 orc with 100 trolls vs 2000 gondorian soldiers is easy to win
I think its stupid that you can't control more then 20 units.
Also I can't use my own reinforcements in the 1.3 patch its a bug I think

[Kalos]

Originally Posted by Blackorc

Jeah sure 8000 orc with 100 trolls vs 2000 gondorian soldiers is easy to win
I think its stupid that you can't control more then 20 units.
Also I can't use my own reinforcements in the 1.3 patch its a bug I think

Hey, I took down an army of 6 mumakil, 10 Southron lancers, and the rest archers and spearmen, using my Faramir-led army of Ithilien rangers and Gondor Archers. 10 of each.

Reinforcements are for those who cannot comprehend the power of Ambush.

[maxi90]

mumaks are easy to take down with archers compared to trolls (just use fire missiles and they´ll run in havok).

[Kalos]

Pffffft. Trolls are way easier than mumakil, especially if you have a 20-archer-army. Just concentrate fire on one unit at a time and they'll all be dead by the time they reach your lines.

[Muffer Nl]

Concentrate archer fire of 20 archers with fire arrows on enemy mumakills and they will run amok killeing half of the Harad army before they even reach you...

[Lord Ovaat]

Well, I reckon I've been put in my place. Hadn't considered I simply might be inept. Guess there's nothin' for it but to go to the woodshed and chastise myself with a sound thrashing.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Originally Posted by Kalos

Pffffft. Trolls are way easier than mumakil, especially if you have a 20-archer-army. Just concentrate fire on one unit at a time and they'll all be dead by the time they reach your lines.

[Kalos]

OH CRAP, IT'S GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN. He might study my art and tear my armies apart! D:

I had to say it, sorry.

[Evan Frayling]

Originally Posted by Kalos

OH CRAP, IT'S GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN. He might study my art and tear my armies apart! D:

I had to say it, sorry.

Don't worry mate! It looks as if you have more Posts, Experience and REP, you are safe from the ADMIRAL...for now...

[Blackorc]

Originally Posted by Kalos

OH CRAP, IT'S GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN. He might study my art and tear my armies apart! D:

I had to say it, sorry.

I am pretty experienced tatw player played like 12 campains on vh/vh.
But mumakils are really easy to kill with gondor and trolls aren't.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Originally Posted by Kalos

OH CRAP, IT'S GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN. He might study my art and tear my armies apart! D:

I had to say it, sorry.

Just to let you know. If you behave bad I will let loose my Noghri Death Commandos.


Now on topic.

I also have the same red X when I controll my AI reinforcements. It took me few battles to see that I can control them the same way I do in M2TW and Kingdoms. You should check it yourself. Select the AI army and point at some place. The army will go there. It's a bit frustrating thou but you'll get used to it.

[Lord Ovaat]

Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn

Just to let you know. If you behave bad I will let loose my Noghri Death Commandos.


Now on topic.

I also have the same red X when I controll my AI reinforcements. It took me few battles to see that I can control them the same way I do in M2TW and Kingdoms. You should check it yourself. Select the AI army and point at some place. The army will go there. It's a bit frustrating thou but you'll get used to it.

I believe you're saying to treat the "x" as the normal location marker [ () ]. I'll try that. Hope it works, and thanks for the idea.

BTW, I also find it pretty easy to defeat mumakil, because they are a missile unit and will stand and trade volleys. Trolls and uruks are just too fast (cav), and overrun my art and archers as fast as horse and do far more damage and do it faster. I always individually target my 8 or 10 archers against the AI's toughest unit--general's unit in vanilla--hoping to eliminate it before it can close. I've been doing that at least since MTW, if memory serves. Don't remember if we could do that with STW. But with 6 or 7 troll units coming at you, it's just a "no go". I've never tried using a full stack of archers, except horse archers with Mongals or such. I try to field a realistic, balanced force, as, I believe, an experienced, real-life field commander would. Therefore , I wouldn't take an army of unprotected archers to fight heavy cav. If it works for some of you guys, great. My archers have always gotten slammed while skirmishing against faster units, and I haven't found any infantry yet who can stand very long against critters. Playing on VH, I've never seen a troll skedaddle. Morale is too high, and they'll fight to the last man, er, troll. Mumakil will "run a muck" after taking a fair number of "fire" hits, as do normal elephants in vanilla. I've always been very frugal with my troops; really hate to lose any. But I will sacrifice a scrap reinforcement unit to hold the enemy in place long enough to get the job done with my control stack, but only if it's absolutely necessary. Sometimes, maybe just to watch.

[Germanicu5]

To fix cases of suicidal reinforcements behaviour extract attached file to Third_Age\Data. Bugged behaviour was connected to discovery of new code I made.

Since I'm responsible for TATW AI, you can treat it as semi-officila bugfix.

It'll also increase overall performance.

Regards