The Rebellion's Shipyard.

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

These are the Rebel Fleets that have been finally launched by The Rebellion’s Shipyard. This is not a mod, it is a group of mods. There are two main versions A and B.

Changes made in A and B versions (that are the base versions over which other concepts of design are applied to create the other 22 versions):

Added XVII century ship models to European factions to start the game with, based in galleon, fluyt and light galleon model and make the merchant galleon and fluyt have much less guns. The new ships are war galleon(vanilla galleon without commercial capabilities) and medium war galleon (based in fluyt model without commercial) with increased building and upkeep cost to discourage their recruiting when you reach the4th and 3rdrate.


I have changed the campaign speed of the ships so sloops go further than a first rate.
New table of ships guns, damage and range based in these sources of knowledge about the performance of the guns in XVIII, early XIX century, and America's civil war period:
www.histarmar.com.ar/InfHistorica/ArtilleriadeMarina/12-punteriayalcance.htm in Spanish. Early XIX century guns.
HMS Victory official website.

http://www.civilwarartillery.com/tables.htm of USA civil war. I used the land 24 - PDR. SIEGE & GARRISON GUN, 32 - PDR. SIEGE & GARRISON GUN, and the 42 - PDR. SEA- COAST GUN
http://usuarios.arsystel.com/naviost/nst/datos.htm in Spanish technical information about Santisima Trinidad ship.
I have not only changed the range but also the damage in relation with the calibre of the gun. Testing changes made I found that the guns fire all at the same time despite the shorter ranged do not have the target in range. The game is designed like that, maybe realistically as the gunners could obey all at the same time the order to fire.


I had to create some guns (all those whose name ends in 2 in tables) as there is a game design problem that I explain in the thread The Rebellion’s Shipyard in shoguntotalwar. yuku.com forums.

I have made possible to build first rates and over first rates in naval hospital as you neither the AI do not need the steam machine to build them, so now I hope it will be easier to find them in the game.

The new class of Third Rate Ship of the Line with Carronades besides the Third Rate Ship of the Line
The new class of First Rate Ship of the Line with Carronades. There is also the admiral version that you can acquire in any of you steam dry docks or in your naval hospitals besides the Fisrst Rate Ship of the Line and the Fisrst Rate Ship of the Line Admiral version.
The new class of Over First Rate Ship of the Line with Carronades that you can acquire in any of you steam dry docks or in your naval hospitals besides the Over First Rate Ship of the Line
Improved the chasing guns of the bow.
First version of the Santísima Trinidad.

Changes made trying to have balanced fleet stats.


Costs of ships and upkeep reduced to half the original value to encourage the AI to build war fleets, as the AI seemed to find them too expensive, instead of indiaman fleets to combat with (see screenshots page 3). With the same target, a short of war ships have been enable to be built in trade and fishing ports so AI minor factions and UP (at the beggining mostly) can build a war fleet to be competitive in combat. Now if you send a sloop to bolck a port an enemy can send you a war galleon to remove you.



Due to new ships and reduced damage for small guns battles last more, galleys last more in combat and have a role different from just blowing up so eastern fleets do not get too much penalized due to lack of new XVII century ship models.

Chain fire power increase by 50%. Now you can stop a line with this tactic and chase ships more easily. Except for the k concept versions, that keep original 1.3 values.

Pirate fleet changed. So now they wont build galleons and are given indiaman 5th rate 5th admiral and 6th rate ships. Limited the number of units they can build of each model.

Ai budget preferences have been changed to encourage the building of ship. Beside that land unit cost and upkeep have been reduced. Maybe you feel now that you have more money now, but due to defence needs in several coast due to 1.4 patch naval invasion increase surely you will find what to do with that money. In concepts 2 and 3 as ships upkeeps are increased so the amount of money you earn each time is reduced. Anyway if any one thinks that this should be adjusted just post it here.


The mod will be available in Spanish, English and. If any one is interested in other language please post here or contact.

Montcalm has provided us French names for the new ships and we are very thankful towards him. We just only need the French language patch to be able to make a French version.
I have developed 24 versions of the mod. They are depending on the concepts of design they have attached. The original version are A and B. They have the cost and upkeep of the ships reduced to ½ the patch 1.3 value. They difference from each other in campaign map speed for every ship as follows.
Version A:
- Low campaign map speed. Big battle ships are really slow and you will have to create several fleet one at least for each sea (sea not ocean) you want to be at as a ruling power. Sloops, brigs and 6th rates and any other small ship are a must for riding, transport (risky business now) and scouting. Slow but powerful battle fleets will open their path slowly but terrifying their enemies.
Version B:
- High campaign map speed. The dream of any admiral. Send your powerful fleet in a few time to the other part of the world. So intercepting fleets should be launched, if you had not blockade the enemy ports first. Sloops go anywhere in an ocean so they should be used as scouting before the battle take place in the ocean in the same turn.
To the first two A and B, I had already added some concepts of design that combined make the other 22 versions. Theses concepts are the following:

The X concept meaning that any version starting like that would have less Native Americans.

The 2 concept, the construction time doubled to encourage the player to keep the captured ships. In concept 2 we have increased ships upkeep cost a 50% for all ships.

The 3 concept, the construction time doubled to encourage the player to keep the captured ships. In concept 3 we have classified the ships in three classes, medium class which are 3rd rate, 4th rate and war galleon, then smaller ships than those are small class and bigger big class, difficult, no? Then we have kept ship upkeep vanilla cost for small class ships, increased by 50% medium class ships, and by 100% big class ships.

The k concept. In this concept versions keep the chains damage value that they had in patch 1.3.

So you can play Rebel Fleet A version or the more spicy Rebel Fleet XA3k version depending in which one you like more.

Probably there will be another set of 24 versions depending in a different gun system based on gun damage depending in ball diameter and range.

IMPORTANT INSTALATION ADVICE:

You need ModManager developed by LtChambers in http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1108&order=desc&page=2 to play these mods and to be able to choose among them and other mods you have downloaded.

The Rebel Fleets are prepared for two languages, English and Spanish. Once you have downloaded the files, open C:>application files>steam>SteamApps>common>empire total war>data in vista( XP or other must be similar), there select the patch_en_pack file for English version, or patch_sp_pack for Spanish version and make a copy in a folder any place in your computer you want to, and then replace it by the one you downloaded with the 24 versions. If you don’t do this, because you have another language version or just do not want to replace original file, the consequence will be that you wont see the names of the new ships, but you will be able to play the mod.

Then paste the 24 version in the same data folder and start the game from the ModManager so you can select which version to play.

Update september 27th, 2009:

Changes made in ottoman mortars to implement the changes that were made by patch 1.4.

Added the need of carronades technology to be able to build ships that carry them.

Changes made in building unit selection to implement the changes that were made by 1.4. in land units.

Update October 11th, 2009:

All versions playable after patch 1.5.

Versions A, XA, XAk, B, XB, XBk have seen their land units cost and upkeep rised up to 75% vanilla values from 60% vanilla values that had before. Now the game is more balanced meaning that AI does not build so many land units and builds more ships.


Update October 12th, 2009:

Cost of Spanish admiral third rates cost fixed in versions A, XA, XAk, B, XB, XBk. Before it was 750, now it is 1250.

If you have dowloaded previous versions to place the changes download the folder varsions 1.5.1 and replace the versions in C:>application files>steam>SteamApps>common>empire total war>data in vista( XP or other must be similar) by the ones in the folder versions 1.5.1. There has not been changes in patch_en_pack nor in patch_sp_pack so you do not need to replace them.

Update October 18th, 2009

Fixed bug introduced by October 12th update in patch_sp_pack and patch_en_pack that did not let the game to start.


Update October 19th, 2009:

Changed patch_en_pack. Please previous to this update English version users having problems to start, download and install this file.

War galleon upkeep rised from 168 up to 280 for all factions and 4th rate building cost rised up to 910 from 713 for minor factions in versions A, Ak, B, Bk, XA, XAk, XB and XBk.

Update November, the 11th 2009 versions 1.5.2

- Poland custom and mp battle repeated ships fixed. Problem noticed and pointed by Sharp.

- Russian first rate added in custom and mp battle. Problem noticed and pointed by Sharp.

- Fixed upkeep of next ships in versions 3:

Spanish carronade frigate up to 280 from 140

Light_galley/galliot/fusta up to 90 from 45

War galleon up to 840 from 168

Medium war galleon down to 500 from 840

- Added British colonial light cavalry.

[Bladerunner]

Congrats to finish you mod!

One remark to the system of publishing small mods in a package to choose from. This limits your mods mostly to SP, as it will be nearly impossible to find someone, having the same configuration of mods (even if yours are the only ones that are installed). Wouldn't it have been better to make one streight system in one package.

But anyway it's good to see someone else taking care of the Naval-Aspect of ETW...

[brucedickenson]

Hey, thanks for working on this, it's nice to see more people having a go a the naval aspects

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

As you can see in first post we have made an update that affects all versions.

Bladerunner. Thank you for your congratulations. By 'Wouldn't it have been better to make one streight system in one package' I understand that you mean that it would have been better to only produce one mod. If I have missunderstood you please tell me. The different Rebel Fleets are different mods that work independently. Releasing several independent mods about the naval part of the game is a possibility that we see as good thing because not everybody has the same gamplay experience or play in same way or have same expectatives when playing as forums clearly show. Even more the same player one day may want to play with high campaign maps ship speed and another day with low speed or any other combination of variable that we have used to design the several versions. The fredom of choice is one thing that moding allows with actual moding tools not just because they exist but because by using the pack system they allow you to combine changes as we have done to produce these several mods. On Thursday I thought that on Friday only eight versions were coming out based on A version and that B versions would come out later this week, but then I made the effort and prepared the B versions and even then watching that many people were complaining about chains power in 1.4 I decided to recover the 1.3 value and created the k versions, so with the delay of one day sixteen more versions were launched.

brucedikenson.Thank you for your encouraging post. We would like to hear your opinion about current versions and any other idea for future versions.

[Bladerunner]

Sure does your mod-collection give player more freedom to decide about how they like to play. that's a benefit of the flexibility you have with several small mods. But it limits the use imo to pure SP/GC. In MP you need to have exatly the same version of the game to be able to join a game. The more different Version there are, the more difficult it will be to find a game with people, how have the same mods of yours installed. This is the downside of the flexible system.

Personally i will go for a straight system in my next Version of the Sealords-Mod. There will be no possibility to decide if useing one change or the other or both. Players will have to take all or leave out the mod. This has sure the downside of not being flexible and sure not assist all playstyles. But as the SL-Mod starts as a MP-Mod, i like to max the possibility to meet others, with the same mod online, though i will expand to make the Mod availible for the GC.

Both systems have their pros and cons. Mayby it is good to have both availible. My post was not for criticising yours, just to give something to think about...

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

I have just made the first version of the Rebel Fleet to start a grand campaign succesfuly. I changed the unit tables to add the native units of Warpath and the units_to_exclusive_faction_permissions_tables, and tried to start the game. I worked well, then I added the other tables starting the game every time I added one. What I realised is that Mod Manager 1-5 is unstable meaning that every time I added a table and started the game I did not worked, then I started the game with 1.5 and then closed it and started the game selecting the mod version and then IT WORKED EVERY TIME I DID THIS. So modding and testing :

1.Add the native units to unit tables.

2.Add the changes made by 1.5 to units_to_exclusive_faction_permissions_tables.

3. Start the game with 1.5 using Modmanager 1-5 and then exit.

4. Exit Modmanager.

5. Start Modmanager again and the game with the mod.

TO PLAY THE GAME it seems that you have to repeat steps 3 to 5 every time you want to play and it does not work from the beggining.

[Bethencourt]

Update October 11th, 2009:

All versions playable after patch 1.5.

Versions A, XA, XAk, B, XB, XBk have seen their land units cost and upkeep rised up to 75% vanilla values from 60% vanilla values that had before. Now the game is more balanced meaning that AI does not build so many land units and builds more ships.

[Bethencourt]

Update October 12th, 2009:

Cost of Spanish admiral third rates cost fixed in versions A, XA, XAk, B, XB, XBk. Before it was 750, now it is 1250.

If you have dowloaded previous versions to place the changes download the folder varsions 1.5.1 and replace the versions in C:>application files>steam>SteamApps>common>empire total war>data in vista( XP or other must be similar) by the ones in the folder versions 1.5.1. There has not been changes in patch_en_pack nor in patch_sp_pack so you do not need to replace them.

[Humble Warrior]

I`ve been looking for a realistic naval mod for a long time. i am a little confused by all the versions. All i want is a naval mod that changes the ships in game to realistic historical levels. Anyway, I will read careful through your Readme and pick the thing that works for me.

Thankyou. Will Rep once I`ve tried this out.

p.s. Can you please, please, please, put in a README with your package download with everything you`ve written in your leading post. many of like to install thesethings later while offline and it can be a bit annoying to go back onto the internet to read up on what does what. Thanks.

For now I will copy and paste then print.

[Humble Warrior]

Ok I tried the A2K version of the mod and it runs in 1.5. had a quick battle then tried a campaign battle where I as Britain and with the Provinces had to fight pirates. the battle was a longer fight with ships pounding at each other. It felt much more realistic and the ships themselves felt a lot less like paper lightweights. It felt like they had mass because they never fell apart with a few chainshots which is as i wanted it. It was a longer battle too, very enjoyable.

I think the only thing I would like is for the costs of ship to remain the same as vanilla.

+1 rep.

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

Humble warrior. Thank you for your advice about readme file. I have just prepared it in .txt file and in Word file and put them in versions 1.5.1 folder.

Before I read your posts I was thinking to post some stats of the ships in excel so the player could see them and take building, campaign and battle decissions. Maybe this weekend I will be able to post them in a separate folder so you do not need to download all the files again.

Also thank you for giving your opinion about the game. I am pleased that you liked it.

About ship building cost, they were reduced to encourage the AI to build the bigger ships. I am playing XA version now and arround 1777 Great Britain is building fleets of two, three or even four first rates and over first rates with more of smaller ships attached (4th rates, 3rd rates) in Europe and in America, and they are a real challenge to my 3rd rate Spanish fleets.

As replacing vanilla cost is rather easy I can release a vanilla cost version also late this week, but I am not sure that game play will be the same.

[Humble Warrior]

OK, leave it. Especially if it helps the AI. I am actually getting used to it now.

[Bethencourt]

Update October 18th, 2009

Fixed bug introduced by October 12th update in patch_sp_pack and patch_en_pack that did not let the game to start.

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

Next posts are dedicated to show screenshots of AI fleets composition of a game in XA version. Edited: The second screenshot in this post is Ducth 1725 not British. Also compare the two Marahatas fleets, the first in 1736 full of small ships and the other one in 1797 in screenshots 3 with several first rates and other big ships.

[Bethencourt]

Screenshots 2

[Bethencourt]

screenshots 3

[Bethencourt]

Update October 19th, 2009:

Changed patch_en_pack.

War galleon upkeep rised from 168 up to 280 for all factions and 4th rate building cost rised up to 910 from 713 for minor factions in versions A, Ak, B, Bk, XA, XAk, XB and XBk.

[stufer]

Hi there

I really like the look of this mod and will definately give it a try. Could someone tell me if it is compatible with the AUM mod please?

Thanks a lot,
Stu.

[Major General Isaac Brock]

Well, +Rep to you good Sir,

I first glossed over this mod upon release, but at the time, I was somewhat "overwhelmed" by the amount of versions and didn't play sea battles that much anyway, leaving AI to do it for me (when I play, always lost!). Now I find myself more involved with this aspect of the game and am quite intrigued with your mod, so am going to venture onto one of them.

So I think I might like A, for realistic, but are the big ships really really slow? Not so much for battle maps, but does it take forever to get from Europe to America?

Secondly the "X" version is confusing me, native?, does this mean only applies to Native Indians in the americas, or all races in the Native Americas (starting NA) and how are they reduced?

also is this save game compatible? can I throw this in say at 1709 or 1710 and have it start there, or must I restart game, my GC is starting pretty well, don't want to lose it

So the 3 variant looks better (realistic), instead of all ships increased they are increased by class, but all ships are still reduced in costs to buy over vanilla anyway so this isn't so bad right?

So now that I think I made my selections, does this reduced the land armies a lot as well, because the AI needs to still field them to keep game from getting redundant?

[Bethencourt]

Hi!

These last week I have been testing several campaigns in XA version. XA and XB versions are the ones I feel suit more my playing style.The other versions were disigned to please the desire of other players that had another playing style specialy those that feel that saving 1.000.000 coins and having several full stack of first rates was not good. That is why I created the 2 and 3 concept. Testing campaign changes is a very slow process as economical changes do not allway give the same output in different games. So as I said I have been testing XA version after 1.5 patch. What I have seen is that due to naval invasions new system some thing unexpected are happening not only in my mod but in vanilla also.

First is that Marahatas become a global super power conquering all India, Persia, half Ottoman Empire and at the same time they send several invading fleets to North America.

The second is that Poland tends to conquer Prussia 90 % of times when in history Poland was divided by Prussia Russia and Austria.

I am testing changes in XA version to change these two events odds. No definitive results yet.

So I had not much time to test 2 or 3 concept. I expected some feedback from those players that required those versions but no feedback has been received.

Sorry stufer I cannot answer you about AUM because I have had not much time for other mods. Thank you for posting.

Major General Isaac Brock. Thank you for posting too. In B version ships are more or less 33% quicker than A version. About arriving to America the result are somehow disrupted by the intertoceanic windows system. It take 6 turns for a 4th rate to get to Carolinas shore from Gibraltar. In B five turns, that would be less if ocean was a continous surface.

X versions are referred to American Indian tribes.


I have not played vanilla for a long while, but to answer you I started a vanilla game four turns and then started succesfully with the XA version. But when I started an XA version saved game with vanilla it did not work.

About recruiting land in the last stages of the game in 3, I have not been able to test them, but those versions where designed for players that amass a fortune in the midgame. If you are one of those then try it. If not I suggest you not 2 or 3 versions.