Why do light dragoons fire at 90 range

[Cuthach]

I'd rather know why Dragoons fire from their horses, so much for dismounting and firing...

[fourganger]

Originally Posted by blank

It is certainly not good for the game. If you happen not to have rifles in reserve (which you won't in mid-battle), there is no counter to LD other than LD of your own.

Artillery works pretty well. Try it sometime.

[blank]

Originally Posted by fourganger

Artillery works pretty well. Try it sometime.

Doesn't fit my playstyle since i don't sit back and camp. Also, if you haven't noticed, people stretch their LD really thin for this exact purpose. So no thanks.

[Lumina]

I miss using my dragoons like I used to... they are now an idiot proof units. I would always have Light Dragoons over any other cavalry unit because they were multi purpous, could work like light cavalry but with slightly less status than a Hussar regiment, but when needed you could dismount and put them in a good shooting possition or delay an army advance while getting your good units to a good possition first. Now they are a shoot and run regiment on horses, as if using them like light infantry was bad enough for people to deal with. hehe

Now they are worth having more than ever, which I find shameful because I used to use them because I liked them, now I use them because they are powerful. lol

[TheAussieDigger]

Originally Posted by blank

Doesn't fit my playstyle since i don't sit back and camp.

who said u had to camp?

[lukey120292]

I find it very rare a dragoon can full gallop and shoot whilst moving, and usually if they do, they end up stopping within range off about 70 ( within line infantry range ) and you can usually squeeze a shot off before his dragoons escape, Dragoons can be very slugish and slow when you want them to fire, and most of the time when they have stopped, aimed, and let of a shot, your lifeguards/cav whatever are in melee with them, I had a game yesterday, a 2 v 2 and the guy had about 8 dragoons harassing my flank as his main army engaged from the front, i just sent 2 dragoons, 2 units of cav, and one unit of line up to my rear flank and i cut nearly all off his dragoons down because they got caught up in gunfire and when they went for the shot, by the time they got up to full speed to escape my 2nd hussar had already engaged them in melee,

I would say the best bet is a unit of fast cavalry like 2nd hussars, even if you don't have enough cavalry left to beat him in melee because he got a shot off on you, you can put his unit to a halt and this gives you enough time to get a unit of line infantry to mow them down with gunfire. dragoons excel at either supporting line infantry, or harassing your army to split you up, don't let dragoons split your army up, don't chase them, lure them in and catch them out, once he makes a mistake he's dead meat.

[YourDentist]

You don't need to camp to use artillery, have a mortar in the back, advance while it keeps firing. Make it look vulnerable and undefended while you hide a horse guard a good bit away. Warning: If you want this to be a trap, don't place it just out of the forest, place 7-11 seconds of sprinting from your hidden unit.
Horse artillery are meant for attacking, really, without artillery at all you are missing a valuable tool. I like having 1-3 howitzers. Just using them to bombard a general area doesn't take much attention from the main battle.

[Sharpe55]

You don't have to have artillery to do well. I almost never use arty and do quite well. Sure there are times where i wish i had it at certain situation, but then again there are times when i would bring it when i wished i had gotten another unit of line or cav instead. Its all up to you and your play style. I like to advance fairly rapidly so artillery is generally too slow to be of any use for me.

I still think dragoons being able too shoot and move while at a longer range is bull. I wish they made light cav better as people just spam like 4-6 units of goons now.

[aletoledo]

I've never understood why dragoons get more men than regular cav. If the roles were reversed, where light cav had the extra men and dragoons were the same size as all other cav, then I think the balance of power would be different.

[Sharpe55]

That actually makes sense. Unfortunately they will not change unit sizes... which sucks

[General500]

Light Dragoons can outrun any cavelry except for light cavelry, which is absurd and totally unrealistic. Personally, when the goons fire they should have a debuff that slows them down... since realisticly it would be almost impossible to hit anyone using a musket while moving on a horse....

[vanadis]

Originally Posted by General500

Light Dragoons can outrun any cavelry except for light cavelry, which is absurd and totally unrealistic. Personally, when the goons fire they should have a debuff that slows them down... since realisticly it would be almost impossible to hit anyone using a musket while moving on a horse....

Very true.

[fourganger]

Originally Posted by TheAussieDigger

who said u had to camp?

Exactly my friend. Aggressive use of horse artillery is the order of the day.

[eregost]

Why do other mounted gunners only get 70 range? And who uses normal dragoons?

[daniu]

Originally Posted by eregost

Why do other mounted gunners only get 70 range?

I think it's partly to balance the factions a little; for instance, France get superior art, they do need a disadvantage too.

And who uses normal dragoons?

Never seen anyone use them (Synoptic does say in one of his vids that bushranger was experimenting with them, but never mentions how it turns out).
Everything normal dragoons do is possible with light dragoons, without the need to dismount...
Normal dragoons are available in early, however, so maybe someone uses them there (though I don't see many early games around overall)?

[bushranger]

dragoons should only ever be used for fun thats it,and they can be very fun to use.in synos vid that daniu talked about was against corner campers and the only time they have been usefull (i used them every battle for 2 weeks trying to make them work by that point).
They were great for that game because i was able to get a massive number of line around his flank before he was able to send back up to it,the dragoons stretched out in between my line helped me envelop his army.
but like daniu said there is no reason apart from fire by rank why you would use them and to think they cost more that light dragoons is a joke.
And one more thing, some aspect of light dragoons has to be changed they have become a must have in your build now not a choice.

[Claus DeWitz]

Originally Posted by bushranger

to think they cost more that light dragoons is a joke

Yeah, they made this mistake in an earlier version, fixed it in patch, and messed it up again.

Apparently some tenacious CA balancer is too busy with N:TW that he doesn't have time to compare two unit cards and simply relies on half-assed word deduction:
"Light infantry = cheaper than regular infantry, therefore light goons must be cheaper than regular goons."

[Toxic]

Originally Posted by aletoledo

I've never understood why dragoons get more men than regular cav. If the roles were reversed, where light cav had the extra men and dragoons were the same size as all other cav, then I think the balance of power would be different.

History wise Dragoons are infantry, using infantry formation, regiments.
Cavalry is not infantry and their units, squadrons, where smaller then a regiment.

The problem is that the dragoons are the mounted formation that are the best on their horses.. they ride them like devils.. but in real life they hardly could ride compare to cavalry.
They used their horses to transport themselves not fight on them, then again some nations/commanders had an unorthodox view on dragoons and used them as multipurpose units with grate success.

Nevertheless dragoons should not be able to ride that fast, if they change the speed on them then it will make them vurnable against fast moving cav.

[Edit]
I forgot to say that the view on dragoons changed during this age, at the end they where cavalry, what differed between them was just the name on the unit that showed that they had started up as a infantry regement on horses..

But lets disregard that and change the speed on them so that they aren't that powerfull unit.

[/Edit]

[Keiichi]

Originally Posted by Toxic

The problem is that the dragoons are the mounted formation that are the best on their horses.. they ride them like devils.. but in real life they hardly could ride compare to cavalry.

I agree, this is one of the things that bothers me most about light dragoons. They have the 'Good Stamina' trait and the fast horses that only light cavalry are supposed to have; yet the unit description flat out says that dragoons normally had lower quality horses since they weren't expected to fight while mounted. Uhlan lancers on the other hand, had their 'Good Stamina' trait removed and their cost increased; lancers have such a narrow niche (they can charge and that's it, they're fairly awful at melee) and they need that good stamina more than almost any other cavalry unit; so now a rarely used cavalry unit has been made even less cost effective.

Light dragoons simply have too many 'pros' and not enough 'cons.'

Pros
The longest range of any mounted missile unit
The best accuracy of any mounted missile unit
The fastest horses (light cavalry can match their speed, but that doesn't help when you're chasing them since you'll never overtake them)
High stamina
Large unit size

Cons
Um, poor melee I suppose but since they're so fast they can escape almost any fight with heavier cavalry with very light casualties

One thing about 90 range that gives light dragoons a big edge is that when making a charge, they will always be able to fire before their charge connects. A unit with 70 range often times will raise their muskets but won't have time to get their shot off before the charge connects; so you need to stop once in musket range, fire, then resume the charge.

Light dragoons need to be taken down a peg. I'm not normally one to call for a unit to be nerfed, and I thus waited until I had plenty of 1.5 experience before commenting in this thread, and my experience tells me that light dragoons are a bit too good at what they do. I would like to see light dragoons have 70 range like all the other mounted missile units, everything else could stay the same. And I would really like to see Uhlans have their 'Good Stamina' trait returned!!!

[Spectre11B]

Originally Posted by Keiichi

One thing about 90 range that gives light dragoons a big edge is that when making a charge, they will always be able to fire before their charge connects. A unit with 70 range often times will raise their muskets but won't have time to get their shot off before the charge connects; so you need to stop once in musket range, fire, then resume the charge.

This pretty much says it all. I like incorporating every type of unit in my army. I've practiced using uhlans and other lancer types and can say they are extremely difficult to use, relatively speaking. Then I realized, why am I wasting my money on lancers when LDs are actually better.

If you combine the round damage plus the charge, they are more effective than lancers.


I agree with some of the posts here. Their speed should be slightly slower than light cav and slightly faster than heavy cav.

Each cavalry unit should be distinct.

Another addition that would make them more unique and I dont know if they already account for this, is to add momentum.


Heavy cav should have the most momentum (Elephants are heavy cav but obviously have the most)
Lancers should have above average momentum
Light cavalry should have below average
Light dragoons should have the least.

The idea behind momentum is in how they disrupt unit formations. Momentum doesnt necessarily kill units but it causes them to take more time to regroup and fight back. Their attack power still determines how many units they kill. An elite cav unit should bulldoze right through a "distracted" unit formation, while light dragoons should get repelled to some extent. Lancers should be pretty good at disruption.

This would give me a better rationale for purchasing one cavalry unit over another. Right now, Light dragoons are the universal soldier.


*Distracted - a unit that is unable to brace for a charge.*