October 2017 Las Vegas Shooting - 50 Dead

[the_mango55]

Republicans taking a "mental health" angle on this is interesting considering they are actively campaigning against people being able to access affordable mental health.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[swabian]

Leftards actually were allowed to drive a russian tank and a few DDR vehicles through berlin, celebrating the "red october".

The USA surely is an abnormally powerful nation, but a nation it is. And the smaller subjects need to re-learn defiance against influences threatening their own little wills, lest someone else declares their will over them.

[tgoodenow]

Republicans taking a "mental health" angle on this is interesting considering they are actively campaigning against people being able to access affordable mental health.

Ah yes the good old, this would've been prevented if we had more of your money.
You know how this would've been prevented? If the Air force properly reported that this idiot intentionally beat up his infant stepson so bad that he cracked his skull.

[mongrel]

A friend of mine knew him. He had antifa leanings. A witness reported to the press that he shouted that this was a revolution.

There is no evidence of antifa activity or any other political activity whatsover. Lot of fake articles though. Don't see why this habit should spread to TWC.

[PointOfViewGun]

Wouldve killed more. Cops were heading to the scene when he was leaving. Armed civilian chased him in his car. There could’ve been another crime scene without the civilian. Are you arguing that people would’ve been better off if this civilian wouldn’t have been armed with his rifle?

No, there could not have been another crime scene without the civilians, quite the opposite. The shooter was already on his way out. He was done with the church. That's when your "good guy with a gun" intervenes. We are lucky that they managed to shoot him twice and not other people. That situation could lead to an even deadlier case if the gunman chose to bunker in a nearby building instead of running away. Then a car chase where the "good guys" not able to catch up with the shooter ensues after which the shooter can not drive anymore and shoots himself. Yes, people would have been better off if your "good guys" were not present to create a fire fight and high speed car chase.

[Derpy Hooves]

So this is the case of the government failing to enforce the law. A background check should have prevented this

[IronBrig4]

One thing I've noticed is mass shooters tend to be domestic abusers beforehand.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

Fortunately the Las Vegas madman lacked imagination and lacked intelligence.

If somebody gave me $5-$10 million dollars and told me to plan a massacre, I could take out between 50,000 to 100,000 people if I opted for a chemical method, and perhaps twice that many if I opted for a nuclear method. As an aside it is within my current skill/capability/knowledge to do the chemical method, and I could acquire the skills or hire the talent for the nuclear method [the main issue would be obtaining fissile material]. Society should be worried about the fact that the knowledge and information for chemical and nuclear weapons manufacture is basically already in the public domain and the skills are spread widely throughout society.

I think we should consider ourselves fortunate that a multi-millionaire who was intent on killing lots of people elected to use a few thousand dollars worth of rifles instead of manufacturing several thousand gallons of chemical weapons or making a small nuclear warhead.

[Love Mountain]

Is this satire or are you really trying to flex on an Internet forum?

[fkizz]

I think we should consider ourselves fortunate that a multi-millionaire who was intent on killing lots of people elected to use a few thousand dollars worth of rifles instead of manufacturing several thousand gallons of chemical weapons or making a small nuclear warhead.

I'm going to be hopeful and just believe the responsible authorities take very seriously such threats out with high efficience. Much easier to pinpoint a potential schemer due to their non-orthodox choice of weaponry.

The reason massacres with guns happen is because guns are so common they do not work as a discriminatory in narrowing down possible suspects. One thing is a suspect having a gun, another is the suspect having chemical weapons.

Also please no need to scare people. What you're writing is dangerous stuff.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Am I the only one that thought that with 5-10 million dollars you probably ain't even scratching the surface of making a mininuke?

Also, I'm not sure this guy was concerned about statistics, he was probably consumed by emotion. He wanted to destroy many things, didn't care exactly how many. Once he carried out the deed he probably realized that what he just did didn't help at all and killed himself because he couldn't see any other way to "feel better" after trying his last resort action of mass murder.

Or something.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

Am I the only one that thought that with 5-10 million dollars you probably ain't even scratching the surface of making a mininuke?

Also, I'm not sure this guy was concerned about statistics, he was probably consumed by emotion. He wanted to destroy many things, didn't care exactly how many. Once he carried out the deed he probably realized that what he just did didn't help at all and killed himself because he couldn't see any other way to "feel better" after trying his last resort action of mass murder.

Or something.

Anybody with a college level understanding of chemistry, access to about $25,000 in lab equipment, and about $50,000 in precursor chemicals, can turn out several hundred gallons of blood agents. If you add in $1,000,000+ dollars then they can turn out at least a few dozen gallons or a hundred gallons of a G type nerve agent [GB/Sarin].


The main issue with nuclear weapons is obtaining fissile material, but $10,000,000 would be enough to obtain the material from former Soviet Republics, freelance Pakistani scientists, etc. We're talking enough for a yield between 50kt and 300kt.


Part of my background is chemistry/engineering, another part was nuclear [but more of a focus on reactor design and operation, the golden age of weapons design is pretty much over and has been for decades]. At any rate, I stand by my remark that anybody with a college level understanding of chemistry and the proper resources could make blood agents and nerve agents.

A friend of mine has a PhD in engineering, I remarked to him that in theory, the two of us, with the right resources, could make a basic uranium bullet type nuclear warhead [the Hiroshima bomb- ridiculously simple by modern standards]. He told me that he listened to a broadcast of a lecture seminar where a professor opined that "in two or three decades the world will basically end because of how laughably easy it will be to make nuclear weapons, and instead of rampages with trucks, bombs, knives, or rifles, maniacs will spend a few months to fabricate a basic nuclear warhead in their garage or their basement and they will be using these instead."

It isn't a "look at me I'm so super smart, I could do this" I am just pointing out that it is easy, standing on the shoulders of the trailblazing giants, with information that is publicly available [literally there are step by step manuals for how to synthesize chemical agents, and there are very specific documents and diagrams on how to make an assemble nuclear weapons, these are all in the public domain in the USA], anybody with a basic background in chemistry, physics, nuclear engineering, nuclear physics, and/or any type of engineering [mechanical, electrical, etc.] who has the resources and the ability to follow directions can prepare chemical agents.

I consider the world very fortunate that the maniacs who perpetrate massacres apparently lack the skills/education, the resources, or the ability/discipline to follow directions.

I prefer a world where a maniac snaps and uses a rifle in a mall as opposed to a world where a maniac snaps but then spends 36 months painstakingly synthesizing 400 gallons of Sarin and releasing it in a crowded area.

Think about that cult in Japan with the GB/Sarin on the underground/subway. Fortunately their Sarin was of a very low purity for various reasons and they made other crucial mistakes. I am not going to get into the specifics of the mistakes they made because I have no idea who might read this in the future and I am not going to point out "okay they went wrong here, here, and here, and this is what they should have done" because I won't give that information up for public safety reasons. Suffice to say, they made serious mistakes.

[Heathen Hammer]

Doesn't change the fact that crime rate is below 1990 levels and gun-related deaths have dropped of a cliff to a virtual zero.

It did decrease due to some other contributing factors, firearms ban clearly not one of them.

And were those privately owned?

Irrelevant to your initial claim. Moving goalposts again?

Yeah, clearly it was because they lacked guns. Not because Hitler's country was in the middle of a war, Stalin just won one, and everyone who hated Mao was already fighting for KMT.

All 3 introduced strict form of gun control. Who would have thought?

Don't remember a strong culture of owning private arms ever contributing to rebellion. I do remember rebellions routinely not needing private firearms, they could just storm the local weapons cache instead.

Sounds like willfully and not, but you just pick and choose which historical events to remember. Plenty of rebellions were successful because of population being armed.

[NorseThing]

Sen. Dianne Feinstein introduced legislation Wednesday to ban the sale and possession of military style assault weapons. The push comes after two mass shootings in six weeks, including a shooting at a church in Texas on Sunday that killed 26 people.
Feinstein indicated she knows the bill has little chance of moving in the Republican-controlled Senate. It is co-sponsored by 22 Democrats, including Feinstein's fellow California Sen. Kamala Harris.
Feinstein said in a statement that she introduced the bill so “the American people will know that a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote."

http://www.latimes.com/politics/esse...htmlstory.html

After another tragic mass shooting—one that likely could have been prevented if existing laws had been enforced—there has been another round of completely predictable calls to "do something" about America's apparent problem with gun violence.For those who want to see something done, Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) has done something. Along with more than 20 fellow Senate Democrats, Feinstein announced on Wednesday the re-introduction of a bill to ban so-called "assault weapons" and those bump stocks that took so much of the blame for last month's massacre in Las Vegas.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/08/se...-weapons-ban-p

I posted this because I just had to do something to comment on the mass murders in the world centered in the USA.

Seriously -- what can de done that has not be done by legislation? We have the perfect storm here with politicians wanting to be productive on issues of the day and nothing they can do to be productive on this issue of the day.

I also heard that the church in Texas will be torn down to help those in the community to not to have to look at the church and all of the grief associated with the mass murder. I understand and have sympathy. It does also help explain the motivation behind some that want to tear down statues within their communities of things past such as the Confederate General statues.

[Quintus Hortensius Hortalus]

Anybody with a college level understanding of chemistry, access to about $25,000 in lab equipment, and about $50,000 in precursor chemicals, can turn out several hundred gallons of blood agents. If you add in $1,000,000+ dollars then they can turn out at least a few dozen gallons or a hundred gallons of a G type nerve agent [GB/Sarin].


The main issue with nuclear weapons is obtaining fissile material, but $10,000,000 would be enough to obtain the material from former Soviet Republics, freelance Pakistani scientists, etc. We're talking enough for a yield between 50kt and 300kt.


Part of my background is chemistry/engineering, another part was nuclear [but more of a focus on reactor design and operation, the golden age of weapons design is pretty much over and has been for decades]. At any rate, I stand by my remark that anybody with a college level understanding of chemistry and the proper resources could make blood agents and nerve agents.

A friend of mine has a PhD in engineering, I remarked to him that in theory, the two of us, with the right resources, could make a basic uranium bullet type nuclear warhead [the Hiroshima bomb- ridiculously simple by modern standards]. He told me that he listened to a broadcast of a lecture seminar where a professor opined that "in two or three decades the world will basically end because of how laughably easy it will be to make nuclear weapons, and instead of rampages with trucks, bombs, knives, or rifles, maniacs will spend a few months to fabricate a basic nuclear warhead in their garage or their basement and they will be using these instead."

It isn't a "look at me I'm so super smart, I could do this" I am just pointing out that it is easy, standing on the shoulders of the trailblazing giants, with information that is publicly available [literally there are step by step manuals for how to synthesize chemical agents, and there are very specific documents and diagrams on how to make an assemble nuclear weapons, these are all in the public domain in the USA], anybody with a basic background in chemistry, physics, nuclear engineering, nuclear physics, and/or any type of engineering [mechanical, electrical, etc.] who has the resources and the ability to follow directions can prepare chemical agents.

I consider the world very fortunate that the maniacs who perpetrate massacres apparently lack the skills/education, the resources, or the ability/discipline to follow directions.

I prefer a world where a maniac snaps and uses a rifle in a mall as opposed to a world where a maniac snaps but then spends 36 months painstakingly synthesizing 400 gallons of Sarin and releasing it in a crowded area.

Think about that cult in Japan with the GB/Sarin on the underground/subway. Fortunately their Sarin was of a very low purity for various reasons and they made other crucial mistakes. I am not going to get into the specifics of the mistakes they made because I have no idea who might read this in the future and I am not going to point out "okay they went wrong here, here, and here, and this is what they should have done" because I won't give that information up for public safety reasons. Suffice to say, they made serious mistakes.

Thanks for that interesting post!

But to be honest, most people who commit mass shootings or similar crimes simply want to commit suicide attack. So mostly (not all!) those people are sick and angry. So they basicly grab what they have access to. So if they have easy access to a gun they use a gun or a knife or an axe they use it. And I (hopefully!) doubt that anyone on this planet has easy access to Sarin or nuclear bombs.
On the other hand, long term planning and rational planning isn't in general something those people do. Being suicidal means they want to end their life and mostly waiting 36 months isn't an option for these people.

Of course when having a organised group which is planning an attack is something different. Those groups are in general much more preparing their action and they have a common goal apart from commiting suicide with as much medial attention as possible.

[swabian]

Am I the only one that thought that with 5-10 million dollars you probably ain't even scratching the surface of making a mininuke?

No. 3 mio at most.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

No. 3 mio at most.

But it's not just about buying the materials, you need to make connections with the very deep black market, with dirty scientists willing to lend you their knowledge, you need transport that won't tip the authorities.

And above all, you will probably need to pay a lot of people to keep their mouths shut.

Except if you are an evil genius and can handle everything from procurement to transport to assembly to delivery all on your own, then yeah, ok

[ByzantinePowerGame]

Thanks for that interesting post!

But to be honest, most people who commit mass shootings or similar crimes simply want to commit suicide attack. So mostly (not all!) those people are sick and angry. So they basicly grab what they have access to. So if they have easy access to a gun they use a gun or a knife or an axe they use it. And I (hopefully!) doubt that anyone on this planet has easy access to Sarin or nuclear bombs.
On the other hand, long term planning and rational planning isn't in general something those people do. Being suicidal means they want to end their life and mostly waiting 36 months isn't an option for these people.

Of course when having a organised group which is planning an attack is something different. Those groups are in general much more preparing their action and they have a common goal apart from commiting suicide with as much medial attention as possible.

The Aurora Colorado movie theater attacker spent a long time making 300+ explosive devices which were found in his apartment and he was a PhD student who was clearly capable of long term complex planning.

But it's not just about buying the materials, you need to make connections with the very deep black market, with dirty scientists willing to lend you their knowledge, you need transport that won't tip the authorities.

And above all, you will probably need to pay a lot of people to keep their mouths shut.

Except if you are an evil genius and can handle everything from procurement to transport to assembly to delivery all on your own, then yeah, ok

I recall a fourteen year old boy who made a breeder reactor with the radioisotopes from smoke detectors. I believe this was in Sweden.

A similar incident involved a 17 year old in the USA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn


My mistake, the fourteen year old was also American.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Wilson

[Copperknickers II]

And another mass shooting, 5 dead, RIP. Would have been another entry in the mass murder hall of fame, if not for the fact the school was on lockdown following reports of a shooter in the area. My cousin is a teacher in Texas (lives not far from the previous shooting, in fact) and she now has to take elementary school pupils through regular 'active shooter drills'. Her previous school in the Pacific Northwest had a fire drill, a bear drill, an earthquake drill and an active shooter drill all in the same week a couple of years ago. There are children living wild in military practice ranges in the Australian bush, who every night before they go to sleep whisper a prayer of thanks to the Rainbow Serpent that they live in such a safe and unthreatening place compared to America.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/us...ngs/index.html

[Love Mountain]

It did decrease due to some other contributing factors, firearms ban clearly not one of them.

I'd love to see the proof for that statement.

Irrelevant to your initial claim. Moving goalposts again?

You mean the one where you claim that private ownership of firearms is necessary to overthrow a government? So were those rocket launchers privately owned? Do you even know the ownership rate in Kyrgyzstan? Cause let me tell you, there are virtually no guns there.

All 3 introduced strict form of gun control. Who would have thought?

Yes, because that's what kept them in power. Gun control.

Sounds like willfully and not, but you just pick and choose which historical events to remember. Plenty of rebellions were successful because of population being armed.

And plenty of rebellions didn't. Hence, we don't need the right to firearms to topple a government.

And another mass shooting, 5 dead, RIP. Would have been another entry in the mass murder hall of fame, if not for the fact the school was on lockdown following reports of a shooter in the area. My cousin is a teacher in Texas (lives not far from the previous shooting, in fact) and she now has to take elementary school pupils through regular 'active shooter drills'. Her previous school in the Pacific Northwest had a fire drill, a bear drill, an earthquake drill and an active shooter drill all in the same week a couple of years ago. There are children living wild in military practice ranges in the Australian bush, who every night before they go to sleep whisper a prayer of thanks to the Rainbow Serpent that they live in such a safe and unthreatening place compared to America.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/us...ngs/index.html

California is the most anti-gun state in the country. Unfortunately their regulations mostly target the firearms, not the user. I'll repeat it again and again. The only way you'll reduce these things is through heavy licensing and and an increase of cost of ownership.