It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
You are absolutely right. If they stick to what they state in their INTRODUCTION THREAD, they are bound to be more lore accurate than TATW.
The key sentence being:
He will have a hard time keeping everybody "in line" with what is in the books, I would say. A brave choice which I personally applaud, but also one that will not be to the liking of most potential players I suspect.Well a simple answer is a Middle Earth mod for Rome 2 completely based off of the books,
It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
GESUNDHEIT!
Yes, you are absolutely right about that. However the developers may also have the objective to get as much people playing their mod as possible. TW-ME is a very ambitious project which will take a huge effort from a lot of people working for a long time to pull it off. It may prove difficult to keep the team motivated when they stick to the book lore only to shape their game. I would play it, a lot of people visiting this thread would play it, but the big majority of the potential players know the Tolkien universe only because of the movies. Anything that doesn't have at least part of the atmosphere of those movies will probably disappoint them IMO. I wonder how their previews will be received by the "bigger" audience.
Looking at the interesting lore thread by Alkar, I see large quotes from the Hobbit and LotR books and also a lot from the Silmarillion and even HoME. Of course this is only meant to provide a template on which the game design can be based. However these are sources that will make it look and also feel vastly different from what most players expect and are fond of. The majority of them will have only seen the movies. There will be some who have read the Hobbit and LotR. A few will have read the Silmarillion and only a handful will have ever heard of (let alone read) Unfinished tales, The Letters or less likely of all, HoME.
It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
it's not by chance that Alkar has been addressed here ..Looking at the interesting lore thread by Alkar, I see large quotes from the Hobbit and LotR books and also a lot from the Silmarillion and even HoME. Of course this is only meant to provide a template on which the game design can be based. However these are sources that will make it look and also feel vastly different from what most players expect and are fond of. The majority of them will have only seen the movies. There will be some who have read the Hobbit and LotR. A few will have read the Silmarillion and only a handful will have ever heard of (let alone read) Unfinished tales, The Letters or less likely of all, HoME.
I'm sure that they will do a great job with the mod
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You're off topic gentlemen, if you want to discuss prefered levels of source faithfulness for mods, please turn to those mods forums or threads, or start a new thread with that topic
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How big was the Saurons empire at its peak in second age? Did it even reach beyond mirkwood/anduin?
I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!
All the way to the Lhûn on its peak. After his defeat at Tharbad, the western border still were the Misty Mountains. I don't know how far north Sauron ever expanded, or if he did even care for what was there.
I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.
As Thangaror say;
Concerning Saurons dominion in the north as far as I can recall it was never very firm; where Orcs lived he would have some degree of control (much of the Misty Mountains) but not elsewhere.(...) When Sauron learned of the repentance and revolt of Celebrimbor his disguise fell and his wrath was revealed; and gathering a great force he moved over Calenardhon (Rohan) to the invasion of Eriador in the year 1695.
... At last the attackers broke into Eregion with ruin and devastation... turned upon the forces of Elrond. Elrond had gathered such a few of the Elves of Eregion as had escaped, but he had no force to withstand the onset.
He would indeed have been overwhelmed had not Sauron host been attacked in the rear; for Durin sent out a force of Dwarves from Khazad-dûm, and with them came Elves of Lórinand led by Amroth. Elrond was able to extricate himself, but he was forced away northwards, and it was at that time [in the year 1697, according to the Tale of Years] that he established a refuge and stronghold at Imladris (Rivendell).
... But now Sauron attempted to gain the mastery of Eriador: Lórinand could wait. But as he ravaged the lands, slaying or drawing off all the small groups of Men and hunting the remaining Elves, many fled to swell Elrond's host to the northward.
Now Sauron's immediate purpose was to take Lindon, where he believed that he had most chance of seizing one, or more, of the Three Rings; and he called in therefore his scattered forces and marched west towards the land of Gil-galad, ravaging as he went. But his force was weakened by the necessity of leaving a strong detachment to contain Elrond and prevent him coming down upon his rear.
... In 1695, when Sauron invaded Eriador, Gil-galad called on Númenor for aid. Then Tar-Minastir the King sent out a great navy; but it was delayed, and did not reach the coasts of Middle-earth until the year 1700. By that time Sauron had mastered all Eriador, save only besieged Imladris, and had reached the line of the River Lhûn.
He had summoned more forces which were approaching from the south-east, and were indeed in Enedwaith at the Crossing of Tharbad, which was only lightly held. Gil-galad and the Númenóreans were holding the Lhûn in desperate defence the Grey Havens, when in the very nick of time the great armament of Tar-Minastir came in; and Sauron's host was heavily defeated and driven back.
The Númenórean admiral Ciryatur sent part of his ships to make a landing further to the south.
Sauron was driven away south-east after great slaughter at Sarn Ford (the crossing of the Baranduin); and though strengthened by his force at Tharbad he suddenly found a host of the Númenóreans again in his rear, for Ciryatur had put a strong force ashore at the mouth of the Gwathló (Greyflood), "where there was a small Númenórean harbour." [This was Vinyalondë of Tar-Aldarion, afterwards called Lond Daer; see Appendix D. p. 274.] In the Battle of the Gwathló Sauron was routed utterly and he himself only narrowly escaped. ... The army that was besieging Imladris was caught between Elrond and Gil-galad, and utterly destroyed. Eriador was cleared of the enemy, but lay largely in ruins. (...)
- UT; The history of Galadriel and Celeborn and of Amroth King of Lórien
Last edited by Ngugi; September 23, 2014 at 05:36 AM.
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DCI: Last Alliance - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory
Nice thank you!!! So it was pretty big empire...
Also, was he there to lead his armies in battles? Or did he stay in Barad dur?
I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!
I read it, I thought that "Sauron" stood for the "sauron armies"...
Cant really imagine how he himself could be defeated in battle, when he slayed 2 kings at the Dagorlad, when there was the greates elven/men host.
Nevermind, thank you... Would like to +rep ngugi but need to spread some first
I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!
Sauron wasn't much of fighter. Gothmog always was Morgoth's go-to skullbasher.
It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
I thought you understood it that way, that was why I specifically referenced the last part of the quote where is says Sauron only just avoided to be captured.
(...)Cant really imagine how he himself could be defeated in battle, when he slayed 2 kings at the Dagorlad, when there was the greates elven/men host.
It is as Feanaro said. He was a Maia, and one of the mightiest even, but it seems actual battle never has been his strongest point.
I think it does not matter that much in Sauron's defeat that the great host was present. Who else but Elendil and Gil-galad would have dared to even face him?
Your original question does make me wonder though, why did Sauron himself lead the invasion of Eriador? That was certainly not the way he preferred to do these things. AFAIK he was more of the Denethor school of commanding an army.
Personally I think it is because he hoped to come in possession of one or even more of the the three Elven rings. IMO that would not be a totally convincing argument though. As long as Sauron wore the the One ring, he could be sure that anybody he send to collect the Three for him would do exactly what he wanted.
Which brings me to another question. Is there any reference to the three having a sort of "my preciousss" effect on their bearers?
I suspect it was due to wanting to torture the location of the Rings out of Celembrimbor. It is also possible that he had no lieutenants he could trust with the task at the time.
I don't think so. We see all those who have worn the Three during the books and they seem pretty much fine.Which brings me to another question. Is there any reference to the three having a sort of "my preciousss" effect on their bearers?
It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
one question
Is there any tale or hint regarding what actually happened to the Three Rings when they arrived in Aman? Had they lost their powers completely (becoming mere jewels), or where they somewhat restored and used to further increase the glory of the Undying Lands?
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Not that I know off, and as I interpret it they had lost all power.