Greece which invented phalanx cannot form phalanx???

[biohaker]

I played with both Greek available factions (athenian and lakedaimonian), their spearmen (hoplites, hippeis Hoplites, pentakosiomedimnoi, zeugitai hoplitai, spartiatai, hippeis spartiatai) CANNOT FORM PHALANX FORMATION. It's rediculus. The phalanx were invented by the Greeks and in the mod they CANNOT form phalanx! I could only recruit phalangites in Ionia and Lydia (Ionian, Lydian, pamphylian and the other one i don't remember) when i conquered them. it's unhistorical greeks not to be able to form phalanx with their spearmen . So u should consider this as a mistake and correct it. Thank u for ur time, I wait replies.

[A Spartan Soldier]

Wow, someone needs to read up on some ancient greek history. It's not a mistake by the way.

[biohaker]

Some historians and authorities date the formation of the hoplite phalanx of ancient Greece to the 8th century BC in Sparta, but this is being revised as it is more likely that the formation was devised in the 7th century BC after the introduction of the aspis shield (often mistakenly known as the hoplon) by the city of Argos, which would have made the formation possible.

from wikipedia

[Zenith Darksea]

If you mean that we are not using the Vanilla pike phalanx that CA erroneously gave the Greeks, then we were correct not to use it. The Greek phalanx of the 6th century BC was a dense hoplite formation relying on overhand spear thrusts and employing some mobility (which the Vanilla phalanx does not allow) - believe it or not, that is exactly what we gave the hoplites in ROP. What you see there is far more accurate than anything CA gave us.

[biohaker]

I do not mean phalanx formation with pikes. I mean phalanx formation with spears. I do not mean the sarissa phalanx formation of macedons as well, because it was during alexander's conquers and the game is 150 years before it. The greek spearmen DO NOT HAVE THE SPECIAL ABILITY BUTTON to go into phalanx formation. The main greek infantry unit was hoplite phalanx (οπλιτική φάλαγξ) which means they were using the phalanx formation. So why don't they have the special ability button???

[Sidus Preclarum]

I do not mean phalanx formation with pikes. I mean phalanx formation with spears. I do not mean the sarissa phalanx formation of macedons as well, because it was during alexander's conquers and the game is 150 years before it. The greek spearmen DO NOT HAVE THE SPECIAL ABILITY BUTTON to go into phalanx formation. The main greek infantry unit was hoplite phalanx (οπλιτική φάλαγξ) which means they were using the phalanx formation. So why don't they have the special ability button???

Oh. I don't know. Maybe because the special ability button would give them a *Macedonian* *sarissa* phalanx formation, you know, the one you "don't mean" ?

[biohaker]

In the battle they hold their spears over their heads like they r skirmishers ready to throw their spear.this is wrong and that is not called phalanx in no way.

[Zenith Darksea]

No, it's correct actually. The Greek phalanx wielded its spears in an overarm stance. If you think that it's wrong, then try reading a book on it!

[Hmmm]

I do not mean phalanx formation with pikes. I mean phalanx formation with spears. I do not mean the sarissa phalanx formation of macedons as well, because it was during alexander's conquers and the game is 150 years before it. The greek spearmen DO NOT HAVE THE SPECIAL ABILITY BUTTON to go into phalanx formation. The main greek infantry unit was hoplite phalanx (οπλιτική φάλαγξ) which means they were using the phalanx formation. So why don't they have the special ability button???

Simple. The special ability button would give them too long pikes, especially if they had the long_pike attribute. This would be completely unhistorical, since the Sarissae was developed by Phillip II much later. You COULD always give the hoplites the phalanx+the short_pike attribute, and change their skeleton to hold the spears overhand instead of underhand, HOWEVER they would not be able to charge, which was a very important part of the Hoplite phalanx. Other than that, their formation would be less maneuverable than it actually was. Thus, ROP:s solution was very good.

In the battle they hold their spears over their heads like they r skirmishers ready to throw their spear.this is wrong and that is not called phalanx in no way.

Where do you get your information from?

http://www.uncp.edu/home/rwb/hoplites.jpg
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/images...4thcentury.jpg
http://armsandinfluence.typepad.com/...e/hoplite5.jpg
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classi...igiphalanx.jpg
http://wargaming.pl/pliki/rec/rec056.jpg
http://www.modelcentrum.pl/photo/IT%206024S.jpg


EDIT: Also, i hope you know that two of your 3 pictures shows the pike-phalanx created by Phillip II.

[Darth Caesar]

got to love wikipedia...ha ha

[RedFox]

Actually, CA did it quite right, as by ~340 BC many city states were using an improved version of hoplites (something between sarissa phalanx and traditional phalanx). They had very long spears (not as long as sarissa though) and still fought in a phalanx (but still much different from macedonian phalanx)

These changes inspired Philip of Macedon which led to the development of the macedonian phalanx (sometimes referred to as a Syntagma).

[Hmmm]

Actually, you are wrong. At 270 BC the Iphicratean phalanx might have been more popular than the Classical phalanx, but this mod is way earlier, the Iphicratean phalanx was yet to be developed. On the part about "quite right", maybe the longer spears was correct, but not for the troops wielding them. The hoplites they have wields aspis shields, the armoured hoplites is even worse with their corinthian helmets. Had they given them linen armor and lighter shields it would have been far more correct. The metal cuirass and greaves is also wrong (basically, they took the hoplites of the ROP era and gave them an Iphicratean formation).

[biohaker]

hello thanks for the interest! well u r right, the overhead bearing of the spear is more accurate. although when defending a charging army, in defending position they could use the spears as when they r in the special ability phalanx formation. I think when u press the guard mode they could change stance and form a phalanx formation with the spears under the head but not to hold long spears but the normal. Can it happen?

[Hmmm]

Um, you mean when defending (thus not charging) they should have the spears underhand, like the 2nd picture you just posted? I dont think that it is possible for them with guard mode (i dont think it can change the animation). As for the phalanx special ability button, the AI would not know how to use it and would keep its hoplites in that defensive position all the time (it keeps phalanxes in phalanx formation).

[Paul d]

well then take the formation away from lydians at least...

[Nero666]

The lydians shouldn't be able to form a phalanx in ROP 2.1.

[hellas1]

Hi ROP team,

hellas1 here.

Looking forward to more factions in this wonderful mod folks!
P.S. What about my music?

Anyway, regarding the invention of the phalanx: Greeks didn't invent it.
The Sumerians did.

The Sumerians had a crude form of "phalanx."

The Ionian Greeks might have modified it via learning about it from Phoenician sources &/or other sources OR came up with their own independantly. Either way phalanx fighting spread to the whole of the Greek city states.

Yia Sas, hellas1 (That's modern Greek for bye bye (plural) )

[Zenith Darksea]

Yes, yeia sou, aderphe!

[hellas1]

Zenith, My Orthodox Scotsman!

How are you?!

Do you guys (and gals) need historical help?

hellas1- Opa kai Spasta!

[Zenith Darksea]

I'm fine thanks Hellas. I'm afraid that we've finished the Greek factions now (apart from a little tweaking here and there), but if you have anything to contribute regarding the Macedonians, Illyrians, Scythians, Massagetae, Nubians, Sabaeans or Bactrians, then we'd be very glad to hear from you.