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Thread: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

  1. #101

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    For the Ayyubids I have a question. When fighting against KoJ, do you think it is better to use masses of cheap Ajnad cavalry when fighting against armies that have abundant dismounted turkopole archers and latin crossbowmen present? I find Ajnad cavalry more worth the cost than fielding Mamluk cavalry, which is wierd considering Mamluk cavalry are amongst the best in BC.

    A unit of Ajnad cavalry cost less than a unit of Latin Crossbowmen and three times cheaper than Mamluk cavalry. When I charge a mamluk cavalry at a group of Latin crossbowmen, they inflict a good amount of casualties on my expensive Mamluk cavalry while with Ajnads, they are 40 guys in a group and they move faster (I think) than Mamluks and if they die, they still charge and kill like 30 Latin crossbowmen each time. I even find them to be more useful to Turkopole archers. If I attack a Turkopole archers with Mamluk cavalry, they pull out their spears then all my Mamluk cavalry get slaughtered when they touch . If that happens with Ajnad cavalry, I just pull out just enough for the Turkopoles to pull out their bows again then instantly order them to charge again with their bows out. Mamluk cavalry are too slow to pull out and in again it seems and they get bogged down then killed by Turkopole archers and Latin crossbowmen.

    Do you find Mamluk cavalry to be worth their weight in cost versus masses of ajnad lancers? The good thing about ajnad horses when they fight against Latin Crossbows is since they're about 40 horses each crossbowman tries to divide their fire amongst the 40 instead of concentrating fire more against 25 Mamluks.

    What are the strengths of actually fielding Mamluk cavalry versus masses of ajnad horsemen when the Mamluk cavalry will get shot to death by high concentrations of crossbow fire versus spreading out the damage amonst a large horse unit of the Ajnads?

  2. #102

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    This is a very intelligent post...

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  3. #103
    GKRobertson's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    As a KOJ player, what is my best strategy for:

    1) The placement and use of crossbowman? (on the flanks, center, etc.?) and;

    2) How do you best handle mounted archers?
    Ken Robertson

  4. #104
    GKRobertson's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Also, best strategy for playing the Makurians?
    Ken Robertson

  5. #105
    christof139's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by GKRobertson View Post
    As a KOJ player, what is my best strategy for:

    1) The placement and use of crossbowman? (on the flanks, center, etc.?) and;

    2) How do you best handle mounted archers?
    I place x-bows to the front of my close order Infantry, and also to their rear if I am heavily outnumbered and facing a lot of cavalry. Sometimes, when hugely outnumbered and/or facing a lot of Cav. I place my x-bows in a box of close order Inf. The Crusaders had to do this against the Turkish Horse Archers etc., and King Richard did this to good effect at Arsuf.

    I charge enemy Horse Archers with my Cav. and try to shoot them up a bit with my archers and x-bows before I charge them with my Cav. If I can bring the HA's to close combat with my Cav. I then have a Light Inf. Spear Militia type unit if available go into melee with the HA's after my Cav. has caught them, and if Spear Inf. aren't available then I will send in any Inf. unit to help my Cav. in melee with the HA's.

    Catapults etc. I place in the center of my Infantry and I keep them well protected and just shoot at the main mass of the enemy with them since these weapons are an area effect weapon and when firing at a large and deep mass of the enemy any innaccurate shots are most likely going to hit some type of enemy troop unit whether you're firing at that particular enemy unit or not.

    Chris

    PS: If woods and/or a hill are on the battle map, place your infantry force in close supporting order in those places. Don't place your Inf. in open ground if possible. Enemy missile effect will be greatly lessened by the forest and shooting uphill, you archers will be more effective shooting downhill, and once the Horse Archers run out of ammo they will arttack yor Inf. in the woods and the Inf. will win. I have had upgraded Levee Spear Inf. in woods defeat a Ghulam Cav. unit. I beat a Kipchak or Seljuk Horse Archer and Cav. Army (about 7 or 8 or so Horse Archer units and a decent number, maybe 4, Ghulam Cav. type units plus a Bodyguard unit) by keeping all my Inf. in the woods and shooting up the HA's pretty good while my Inf. took minimal casualties because of the forest cover, then when the enemy Cav. charged to close quarters, my Spear and Sword armed Light and Heavy and Levee Inf. tore them up in the woods and then the Inf. charged with my Cavalry into the open and just drove the HA's and other enemy Cav. that had been beat-up pretty good off the field.
    Last edited by christof139; June 14, 2008 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #106

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Nice faction list

  7. #107
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by GKRobertson View Post
    As a KOJ player, what is my best strategy for:

    1) The placement and use of crossbowman? (on the flanks, center, etc.?) and;

    2) How do you best handle mounted archers?
    Just make sure X-bows have sufficient space between them and friendly unit in front of them, otherwise they will not fire properly, a bug in 1.05. I primarily put them on rear flanks and guard them with spearmen.

    Mounted archers in my mind are the best when attacking from flanks. If you can, always try to attack opponents inf lines from rear...that’s free meal for you son. If out numbered, use mounted archers to brake the opponents lines by harassing the inf.

    In case of all missile units, distance at which you shoot targets matter significantly. Always try to hit units at close distance, again something mounted archers are perfect for.

  8. #108

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    My thoughts on Ghazni after playing 2 campaigns as them.

    Ghazni suffers the same problem Armenia and Georgia suffer in that they have a very strong military but they don't have the economy to take full advantage of it. This is worsened by a potentially dangerous position which will always have you stuck in the middle of other powers facing threats from all sides. Having said that I've found that allying with the Ghorid's and Khwarezm leads to them actually being quite reliable allies. They will sometimes move troops along your borders in what looks like an attempt to invade but moving some of your own forces near them or increasing the garrison in a nearby settlement seems to deter them and they don't bother doing it again.

    On the other hand the Khwarezm might (I say this because I've never attempted it) be more aggressive if you take some of the western provinces bordering you, Herat for example. They are really aggressive in taking some of these settlements and expanding into them first could provoke them. You might consider it to be a fair trade-off as like I said earlier, your economy isn't fantastic and so grabbing Herat could start to change things around. I don't bother going west until I've take out the Ghorid's and maybe Sindh. I don't want to fight a major war with the Khwarezm with my other front vulnerable to attack and I don't want to do it with an inferior economy. Plus expanding west earlier means you're going to be facing the Mongol's earlier and it also means the Shah is going to have an even harder time defending against them. Let the Mongol's and the Khwarezm beat seven bells out of each other first.

    That brings me to the military side of things:

    Ghazni have some of the best spears in the game it's true. But with the inherent penalties spear troops get against sword armed ones combined with the low attack power of spears in BC you might be surprised at the performance of some of your units. Those axe armed Afghan's can really put up a good fight against even your heaviest spearmen and this is saying nothing of the excellent assault infantry the Ghorid's can produce. Like the game and the original post say, you cannot rely on your spears alone to win things for you. You need a balanced force working in full support of each other.

    Early on and in some of your less developed provinces you'll be making lots of use of Daylami and Ghaznavid regulars. Both are good troops although on the subject of the regulars I find that I tend to phase them out as soon as I can. They aren't bad troops but I much prefer to use Daylami; for their better stats and their javelins they can still find a use later on the game. A good tactic is to form your main battleline but don't have it comprised entirely of spears, disperse some Daylami or even some Ghulam infantry units amongst them. Against strong infantry the Ghulam's and Daylami can help support the spears and the spears can ward off any cavalry trying to attack them. This helps to increase the fighting power of the line while also giving it a wider frontage. Behind this keep a few units of Ghulam Infantry (who are awesome) to keep on pouring arrows into enemy lines before flanking the enemy who should hopefully be pinned.

    So yeah, Ghulam Infantry are a really really good unit. They can hold a battleline and carry a charge perfectly well; don't be afraid to get them stuck in. When I first started playing Ghazni I was misusing them and treating them exclusively as archers, which isn't that bad because they are good at it, but to ignore their close combat abilities is detrimental. Same with the Ghulam horse. Excellent horse archers and good melee cavalry.

    On the subject of cavalry, armies with good shock/heavy cav might give you some problems. Unfortunately the Ghorid's and Khwarezm have both of those things in abundance. Your horse archers, while very good, might find it difficult to keep the cavalry from flanking you. It just depends on how much infantry and how much cavalry the enemy force has, if they are skewed towards cavalry then placing more spearmen on the flank is a good idea even if your centre is a little less solid as a result. Vice versa for infantry.

  9. #109

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki52 View Post
    For the Ayyubids I have a question. When fighting against KoJ, do you think it is better to use masses of cheap Ajnad cavalry when fighting against armies that have abundant dismounted turkopole archers and latin crossbowmen present? I find Ajnad cavalry more worth the cost than fielding Mamluk cavalry, which is wierd considering Mamluk cavalry are amongst the best in BC.

    A unit of Ajnad cavalry cost less than a unit of Latin Crossbowmen and three times cheaper than Mamluk cavalry. When I charge a mamluk cavalry at a group of Latin crossbowmen, they inflict a good amount of casualties on my expensive Mamluk cavalry while with Ajnads, they are 40 guys in a group and they move faster (I think) than Mamluks and if they die, they still charge and kill like 30 Latin crossbowmen each time. I even find them to be more useful to Turkopole archers. If I attack a Turkopole archers with Mamluk cavalry, they pull out their spears then all my Mamluk cavalry get slaughtered when they touch . If that happens with Ajnad cavalry, I just pull out just enough for the Turkopoles to pull out their bows again then instantly order them to charge again with their bows out. Mamluk cavalry are too slow to pull out and in again it seems and they get bogged down then killed by Turkopole archers and Latin crossbowmen.

    Do you find Mamluk cavalry to be worth their weight in cost versus masses of ajnad lancers? The good thing about ajnad horses when they fight against Latin Crossbows is since they're about 40 horses each crossbowman tries to divide their fire amongst the 40 instead of concentrating fire more against 25 Mamluks.

    What are the strengths of actually fielding Mamluk cavalry versus masses of ajnad horsemen when the Mamluk cavalry will get shot to death by high concentrations of crossbow fire versus spreading out the damage amonst a large horse unit of the Ajnads?
    Yeah beware the Turkopoles, right now with the spear buff they can butcher any heavy cavalry units in a fight. Personally i tend to agree, a huge bunch of cheap units that do the job is always better then one expensive elite unit. Also some of the elite lancers just to me don't seem their cost, when 2 cheaper units can do their job and is tactically much more flexible.

  10. #110

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Any general tips for playing the Rajputs? Who to start attacking/allying with?

  11. #111
    Gwyn ap Nud's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Rajputs are by far the hardest faction to play in the game.

    General Tip: Whatever you do, do not put your generals anywhere near battle! They die to easily.

    Cogito Ergo Vicco

  12. #112

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud View Post
    Rajputs are by far the hardest faction to play in the game.
    Hope you were kidding man, the Rapjuts are the easiest campaign. Granted, there elephants get pwned by javelins, but aside from that they have vast amounts of cash, excellent range and good shock cav (the elephants).

  13. #113
    Gwyn ap Nud's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Well, I can't use them, at least. They have just about no heavies, which I hate.

    Cogito Ergo Vicco

  14. #114
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    the new Indian faction will have some heavies as previewed, for those of us who like the more traditional aspect of the army.

  15. #115

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud View Post
    Well, I can't use them, at least. They have just about no heavies, which I hate.
    AW man, they are a blast! its true you can't do the same tired tactics with them that we have all done 100 times, no pinning with decent ground troops and using AI's faults to get yet another cavalry flanking and charge in to the back of engaged enemies. Thats the beauty of them, they are the most unique faction yet! Try having MASSSSS archers firing mass flaming arrows; charge 3 units of merc elephants at your enemy. You will see a LOT of 'shaken' reports on enemy units. When they hit back and your elephants run amok, watch them trample 30 units and destroy your enemies lines before being brought down. NOW charge with some of your own infantry and watch group after group break. All the while, check out the mass cash you are generating every turn with crazy resources in most areas. Take a general and 5 elephants and recruit local mercs with all that cash and just keep going west, its awesome...

  16. #116
    Big Pacha's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Absolutely right tallstark! Rajputs are one of the easiest factions to play. Your tactical advices are correct and I'll add these strategic advantages:

    Territory:

    • Large
    • Remote (far from Mongols, Ayyubids, ERE and other heavies)
    • Rich: after conquering India from Bombay to Delhi my average budget is +30000 dinars! Never had that much money in any TW campaign, thanks the Indian Ocean trade.
    • Hinduism: religious buildings produce elite kshatriya warriors + you're not locked on your alliances, i.e. no "christians vs. muslims", don't have to take sides between crusade and jihad. Use that with your diplomacy (just like modern India btw ).

    Armies

    • Massive armies, you can have 3 to 5 or 6 "full" armies trampling your enemies on the map
    • Very good+low cost+numerous merc. archers & elephants
    • New tactics, like tallstark said.
    • Cheap rooster: good quality/price units.
    • No heavies? Maybe less but It deppends on your building policy. Honor Shiva and you'll get Kshatriyas! Only big flaw: lacks heavy cavalry ; but the basic Rajput warriors are very reliable, good fighters on chainmail+khanda sabers
    • Now the Chauhan military is not a joke anymore and they'll help taking on Persian invaders.

    Just a few insights. BTW concerning factions tactics and strategies maybe we should make one thread/faction, like we did with Ghazni HERE, don't you think?
    Last edited by Big Pacha; January 23, 2009 at 03:35 AM. Reason: spelling






  17. #117

    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    The indians are very easy to play with massed archers, they are cheap, cost effective, numerous, have long range, do great damage and don't flee on charge, make most of your army out of them than when the enemy army is decimated disable firing, and charge with all your men, horses and elephants at the front line, and they will rout. If the enemy army is too heavy(that means something like a medium ghazni army, that really has numbers of troops with more armor than chainmail) taht does not work.

  18. #118
    Big Pacha's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    Then trample the Ghaznavid heavy infantry with elephants, at a good range from your own troops and enjoy the mess. They will panic, you will lose 1 or 2 elephant units (take mercs, who cares, you're rich!) but his "heavy" army will be completely disorganized.
    Wait until all panicking elephants are dead. The enemy still disorganized and in the meantime nail them with thousands flaming arrows from 3 to 5 Hindu merc. Archers units, divide and approach your infantry in 2 wings, use hindu light cav. to go behind and make more mess (but no contact!) then charge! Now it will work. Kep your "good" elephants for infantry support and pursuit (+a little more mess on the wings).

    My 2 cents






  19. #119

    Default suggestions!

    I'm sitting at a bridge head waiting to be attacked by 2 stacks of Mongols. So here I sit they are the aggresssor but as yet they haven't committed. It's been quite some time as I left the computer to watch a TV program and still they sit. If I quit the game I lose. Any suggestion to get the Mongols to commit?

  20. #120
    Col. Blood's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: BROKEN CRESCENT: Faction Tips and Strategies

    I found that as the Rajputs, If you line up your elephants (any ole "cheap" ones) in front with infantry immidiately behind, and archers on the wingsyou can cause a mass rout from thwe enemy by:
    1: first allow the enemy to charge towards your elephants. Right before their tired infantry hit your lines;
    2: Charge your infantry , then your elephants (in immidiate succession). You must tell your elephants to consistantly move forward and not stop to attack the enemy.

    The result is that the elephants will trample and knock down their charging troops, negating the charge bonus; also if you timed it correctly, your infantry will reach the enemy just before their troops are back on their feet. With their formations broken and infiltrated by your troops, they will only take a few casualties before they start running. The only units that wont run are Ghazis or Ghulams. Simply have the elephants (who are behind the enemy at this point) charge back into the fray. Start up the blender and run until the enemy has a smooth texture.

    Note: if the enemy has elephants as well, simply sacrifice a few infantry units for the cheap tribal javelin cav. They seem to kill off elephants rather fast.

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