Renaissance 3.0 - Project Plan

[justme]

no... seriously, we need a proper project plan, as this has grown far away from just a simple "fix" to the original Renaissance:TW (I got into this "mess" just trying to make historical family trees and correct the starting factions' standings and territories - then it all "blew up" )

First things first though:

Item A) Decide on the fate of 2.75 - it doesn't work with the 1.2 patch. Do we scrap it and focus on 3.0 or do we try to fix it?

Personnaly, I'd say scrap it... I don't even have 2.75 any more and I don't want to install it again and start looking. Especially since I have limited time and want to use it in other - more "productive" - ways. I'll prolly put up a poll though, as this touches the community too (and they should have a say in this case)


Item B) Renaissance 3.0 Project Plan

Item B1) There are four separate areas of creating the mod

I. Historical Research
II. Graphics
III. Campaign Coding
IV. Campaign Scripting
V. Bug hunting and killing

Item B2) Historical Research - work and outputs

Item B2-1) Work

Research the timeframe of the mod (1494-1555) for the following aspects

a. Factions - research European and Middle eastern countries, their lands, their policies, their priorities and their relations during this era

b. Wars and Tactics - research for each faction on its individual style of conducting warfare, battlefield tactics and the changes that occured to both thanks to technological advancement or other political/social/religious developments. Also research in all major conflicts of the era...

c. Culture - research in the culture and arts of the era (painting, sculpture, music, architecture,etc), the differences in aesthetic styles between East/West, North/South and between religions, also the differences in philosophy (eg obscurantism vs enlightenment, etc) and society (eg tending towards religious seclusion or secular openness) - this is useful to set the tone of the campaign

d. Religion and Religious Policies - Reformation ('nuff said)

e. Technology - research in technological advancements of this era not specifically related to warfare

f. Exploration - research in the exploration of both the new world and Africa/Asia and its consequences on the european states' economy and society (eg opening new trade routes, new commodities (eg spices),reinstitution of slavery,etc)

Item B-2) Outputs

a. List of Factions to be implemented/List of Regions and Cities per Faction - mostly done and fixed already, but we need their "political agendas" documented still (who's friends with whom, who hates whom, and what are they going to do about it )

b. List of units per faction (complete with arms/armor and tactics description)/List of Major Conflicts (participants, start, end, effects on political situation and maybe in the advancement of tactics)

c. A "psychological profile" per faction for this era (what were their priorities - war, trade, religion, other?, how advanced were they with respect to their time, etc)/also as many painting and pictures of the era as you can get

d. a list of important events for the Reformation and their immediate and long term effects/a description (per faction) of its internal and external religious policies (and goals) - prioritized by preference

e. a list of technological advancements relevant to the era and their effects in the short and long terms

f. a list of important exploration events and their effects on the emerging colonial powers of the day


Item B3) Graphics - 2d and 3d

I. 2D Graphics
II. 3D Graphics

Item B3-1) 2D graphics

a. replace portraits for
- agents
- family members
- family tree

b. replace images for
- events (per event preferably)
- battles
- loading screens

c. replace ui images for
- unit icons and preview images
- faction icons
- maybe buildings too

d. create skins for units where appropriate - INPUT: list of units per faction


Item B3-2) 3D Graphics

a. Modelling units as appropriate - INPUT: list of units per faction

b. Updating the modeldb as appropriate - INPUT: the models and the skins


Item B4) Campaign Coding

I. Campaign Map
II. Historical Context
III. Camapign Factions
IV. Campaign balancing

Item B4-1) Campaign map

a. verify regions, cities and names - INPUT: list of regions and cities per faction


b. check trade resources per region - INPUT: many sources really, some are in the exploration list, others in the factions regions list, etc

c. check campaign specific resources per region - INPUT: again many research resources (eg areas where hi-q plate armor was produced, etc)


Item B4-2) Historical Context

a. Historical names per faction (and historical faction names )

b. Code the historical formations/tactics per faction and per unit

c. Code the historical economy strength per faction

d. Implement the historical units in the EDB

e. Historical mercenary recruitment system

f. secondary effects of the army and economy reforms where appropriate (initial coding)

g. Code the secondary effects of various historical events as appropriate (initial coding) - eg exploration, technology, religious, etc events

h. Code historic events (unconditional events)

i. Code religions and religion effects (THIS IS STILL UNCERTAIN - ESPECIALLY AS FAR AS PROTESTANTISM IS CONCERNED)

[secondary effects = effects that can be implemented via the text files - not script]


Item B4-3) Campaign Factions

a. create factions as appropriate, with proper faction family tree and historical generals/admirals - INPUT: again based on historical research on factions, exploration, etc

b. verify/correct faction ownership per region - INPUT: same as above

c. City development - INPUT: a mix of historical research in society, culture, warfare, etc per faction

d. Starting armies per faction - INPUT: a mix of historical data and unit lists

e. Diplomatic standing - INPUT: the faction specific research

[NOTE: rebels are also included, especially if they're meant to represent some minor faction of the day]

Item B4-4) Campaign Balancing

a. Economy balancing per faction

b. Unit balancing per faction

c. Mercenary appearance balancing


Item B5) Campaign Scripting

I. Reformation Script
II. Exploration Script
III. Forced Diplomacy Script
IV. 4TPY Script
V. Army Reforms Script
VI. Economy Reforms Script
VII. Some form of HRE script (especially if the we don't unite the whole of Germany under Habsburg rule) - to keep the Habsburgs the Poles and the Hungarians from attcking the independant German states
VIII. A Surprise Script
IX. Conditional Events Script


Item B6) Hunting bugs and exterminating them...

There's bound to be a few with so much coding/scripting



[NOTE: this is by no means a definite list, but its a well organized - I think - task/subtask planner; other members are welcome to add their tasks in the appropriate fields]

[justme]

I'm going to make a doc out of this project plan and pass it along for the members to add their ideas and suggestions (for tasks they're prepared to do )

I propose that we create some kind of developers portal in order to exchange documents and data (I can't do that via MSN/Yahoo/whatever, I'm behind a very "strict" firewall most of the times)

Finally... don't be scared by the volume of work that is described in the task planner. Some of them (most of the coding stuff) have already been done and we'll just have to make them compatible with 1.2
(I'll report on the issue as soon as I try renaissance 3.0 beta with MTW2 1.2 myself - from Dristvaan's description of the problem, it doesn't sound too bad)

[DrIstvaan]

I'd say we should fix 2.75, as new players try that, but right now users of M2TW 1.2 can't do that.
Anyaway, it's a good list.

[justme]

I posted a poll for people to offer their opinions


EDIT: the point of this list is to break up the mod development process in small manageable tasks for the devs to undertake in parallel - so gentlemen (and ladies - if there are any) step forward and volunteer for some task

[NOTE: I'm going to post a list of what's been done - or half done - too, so that there'll be no overlapping]

[Axe-Battler]

I can say from experience of converting my own mod to 1.2 patch from using 1.1, that it's very easy, much easier than it seems.

The only file that you can not use with 1.2 patch that was modded in 1.1 is the export_descr_unit.

Other than that, all you need to do is delete the other files that we had from 1.1, such as the campaign_ai and diplomacy files...

the export_descr_building works perfectly.

The unit_models is fine to keep.

The world folder doesn't need to be changed.

Only the export_descr_unit, and deleting the campaign_ai and db files.

[DrIstvaan]

Yeah, I've discovered already that some files go deleted (like the ones you mentioned, and the battle modifying files), but there's a problem of the game not starting a new campaign, even if you leave everything untouched.

[justme]

Yeah, I've discovered already that some files go deleted (like the ones you mentioned, and the battle modifying files), but there's a problem of the game not starting a new campaign, even if you leave everything untouched.

heads up guys:

I just posted a patch for our latest 3.0 campaign

- campaign now compatible with 1.2 MTW2 patch (NOTE: I didn't have to delete any file to get it working... all our work is still there, unless we want to integrate it in the new files to benefit from possible 1.2 improvements)
- HRE names list integrated
- HRE limited to the Habsburg lands of Austria and the Netherlands (more of a challenge, but we need some scripting done to ensure good balance)

@Dristvaan: please make sure that it gets to our fellow-modders


cheers

[DrIstvaan]

I still think files from DarthMod (included by Ramtha in the original) should be deleted, or battle will not be as good as it could with M2TW 1.2. I'll go and test if this new version works with those files removed, and if so, I'll distribute a Darth-free one.

[DrIstvaan]

It seems deleting those particular files causes problems with the game, so everybody, do NOT delete anything yet.
Anyway, we'll have to work out something, as the mod right now uses DarthMod's battle system, which is good, but M2TW 1.2's is better. I suppose an obvious way would be to implement the latest DarthMod, optimized for 1.2, about to be released soon. I think we should do that.

[Serious Spamurai]

We need to include the formations files (AI mainly) from Darth's Warpack, it makes the AI advance with units out of Spearwall and go into it as they get closer. It makes the game much better and allows us to keep spearwall in.

[DrIstvaan]

Yes, I hope he really can get out the next version soon.

[Axe-Battler]

the reason the deleting the darth files may cause ctds is because darth created new projectiles in 1.1, so you'll need to use a new export_descr_unit as well as deleting the projectile files and battle ai files.

[DrIstvaan]

Yes, I've discovered it doesn't work, so we'd best wait for Darth's team (I haven't seen him post recently) to release the 1.2-compatible version of their mod.

[Serious Spamurai]

Don't woryy he's been posting today so he's still around. My guess is that it will be out soon, he's usually very punctual when it comes to updates.

[DrIstvaan]

Well, it IS out. IF I'll get some, time, I'll lookto testing it (but I must hand in two themes over Italian literature and one over Dutch literature this week, do right now I'm pretty busy).

[DrIstvaan]

I suppose everybody is over with their holidays (I hope everyone enjoyed it), and I think we should really set out to be working on RenTW.
Justme has made a very fine project plan in the first post of this thread, but that is for the whole project. I suggest we have a lok around what should be done right now, what the next step should be, and what we have already as well.
So. Right now, we have kind-of complete unit roster for Poland, a solid one for Hungary, England and France. Besides, we have the names list for Scotland, and have the descr_strat file in a very good shape.
I suggest we should first gather unit rosters for the remaining many factions. Yggdrasill, and all faction-specific historians/researchers, feel free to open threads for these rosters in our dev forum.

[justme]

it seems that before we go on with developing the mod we must make an important decision, and that involves the new MTW2:Kingdoms expansion.

from what I gather, the expansion includes a number of extensions that are VERY relevant () for our mod, like the ability to change faction religion in-campaign, etc

I haven't got it yet (too much work, too little free time to go shopping ), but as soon as I do I'll report on how easy (and how advantageous) it will be to port our current work to the expansion

meanwhile, research work can resume - I second Dristvaan's call to our researchers... post your unit lists folks so that we can at least have the necessary input for subsequent unit modeling/skinning

[justme]

An Important Note About Unit Lists!

Pretty please to all our researchers: in the unit roster lists per faction, please indicate which units are appropriate for the Early Period (roughly 1494-1520s, but depending on faction), which units are appropriate for the Late Period (roughly post-1520s, but depending on faction) and which units are appropriate for both Early AND Late Period (entire campaign)

The distinction should be made on the basis of "outer appearance" and NOT on the basis of unit description...
i.e. Hussar units were used throughout our time frame BUT a 1494 Hussar wouldn't look the same as a 1555 Hussar - therefore there should be an Early Hussar and a Late Hussar

To all our researchers: PLEASE update the lists you may have already posted and post lists for the factions not yet done according to the above rule...

[Nevada]

i think the possibility to convert is a nice feature that should be in the mod (=>Protestantism)

i got it since friday.
but i think CA gave potential away as they made no historical battles, you can only play scenarios.
(i know that belongs not to the topic)

[DrIstvaan]

Hi everyone,
sorry for my lack of activity (and notable presence) here; I'm busy with many things nowadays (Dutch seminaries, menacing exam-period, too many good video games, etc.). I'll try to be more active in the future, and do some modding on this precious project of us.
Anyway, it's very good to know that a nice number of factions have had an info-boost, but sadly there are still quite a few without background (and, most importantly, a proper unit list for the era). These include...
-The Crowns of Castile&Aragon
-The Kingdom of Fez
-The kngdom of Portugal
-Mamluk Sultanate (though I think Boztorgai_Khan can handle this one).
So, if anyone can work out at least a good unit list for them, please, apply for it.
Also, to all researchers, please, check if your assigned faction si good to go or if you want to make some changes.
I've made a thread some time ago, inquiring about the thing(s) to do in order to convert a mod to be 1.2-compatible, but have not received any response. Maybe I'll have to ask over at the Org.