New Epithets - creating faction specific epithets

[Kingmaker]

Now that names have been revised for most of the factions, I thought it would be a good idea to create some historical epithets to add atmosphere and add flavour to each faction.

I would like to create epithets for faction leaders only that reflect historical nicknames given to Kings or great generals for each faction. For instance, for the English faction you could have 'Longshanks', 'Crouchback' or 'Lackland'. I would suggest having no more than 4 or 5 for each of the more popular factions. Each epithet has to be tied to triggers - so for instance if I were to set up Crouchback as a faction leader epithet for the English I could set triggers that the character must be English, must be faction leader and might have the 'cruelly deformed' trait. For the Hungarian faction you could have 'the Impaler' epithet linked to a Hungarian faction leader with the 'bloodthirsty' trait who has also defeated the Turks in battle. Anyway, you get the picture.

The files that need to be altered are in the data folder 'export_descr_character_traits', 'export_descr_vnvs_enums' and in text 'export_vnvs'. Many mods make changes to traits and I would like to make the CNP epithets addable to any other mod to complement the work we have already done on the character names. What do you all think? Should the epithets be in the language of the actual faction? Would this add more atmosphere to the game?

If any of you are interested, you could take a look at this wikipedia list of monarchs nicknames to see what I'm getting at;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...hs_by_nickname

I think these epithets should be quite hard to get, exclusive to each faction and reflect each faction's own history.

[finneys13]

You want them in the native language? A simple example, 'Great' in Gaelic would be 'Mór', but not many people will know what that means.

[deRougemont]

I'm interested in pursuing this. As you said Kingmaker, we could focus on the more popular factions, or on whatever factions we receive epithets for from the community.

The hard part will be integrating the new triggers, etc. into current mods, since many of them have already altered these files (though no one has attempted to improve epithets from what I know). For now, we will collect the names and see how much interest exists for this project.

Five epithets per faction seems a good place to start. Contributors could post more in case we expand on this in the future. So, let's lay the ground rules so: 5 epithets in the native language of the faction (this answers finney's question; time for everyone to learn some foreign words ) with their translations and what each epithet should generally be tied to in the triggers.

For example, I'll do the Germans:

der Bär (the bear) ... tie to ?

der Böse (the mad) ... tie to dread

der Einäugige (the one-eyed) ... tie to hitpoints/battles lost/won?

der Grossmütige (the brave) ... tie to chivalry?

der Heilige (the holy) ... tie to piety

These were all epithets used by German princes. As you can see, I'm not sure what to tie them all to at the moment. Kingmaker, could you attach all the vanilla files involved to your first post so everyone can get a look at the triggers, etc.?

[Kingmaker]

Yes, I agree that having them in the native language adds a bit of flavour!

For England I suggest;

'the Confessor' - linked to very high piety

'Crookback' - linked to deformity & dread

'the Lionheart' or 'Couer de Lion' - should be a crusader with high bravery/chivalry

'Longshanks' - should be linked to the handsome/physically flawless trait

'the Black' - tied to dread and great command

[finneys13]

All these in the Gaelic of the time, apart from 'amadan', couldn't find the medieval Gaelic word for 'fool' anywhere, but in modern Irish and Scots Gaelic, it is the same word, so most probably it is an old word.

Example would be instead of 'Domnall mac Donnchada', it would read as Domnall Bán, no 'the'.

'Forranach' (the Destroyer or Avenger) - high dread, command
'Amadan' (the Fool) - not the brightest penny
'Cennmor' (the Great Chief) - high everything?
'Bán' (the Fair) - handsome, chivalrous I suppose
'Garbh' (the Rough) - 'powerfully built, redheaded, and headstrong', description of the holder of this epithet, whatever matches it best

You are still going to have the universal epithets like 'the Saint' or 'the Crusader' in English then?

[deRougemont]

You are still going to have the universal epithets like 'the Saint' or 'the Crusader' in English then?

Good question... I haven't thought about it. Any thoughts?

@finney

No 'braveheart', lol!

[finneys13]

I would have them in the native languages as much as possible.

Some of the Scottish ones might be in modern Irish/Scots Gaelic though.

[therussian]

Epithets, eh?
Here's a few Russian ones:

Velikiy (Great)
Dolgorukiy (Long armed)
Pobeditil (Conqueror)
Khrabrie (Brave)
Myzhestvenie (the Manly...fearless could also work I guess)

[otark]

Epithets, eh?
Here's a few Russian ones:

Velikiy (Great)
Dolgorukiy (Long armed)
Pobeditil (Conqueror)
Khrabrie (Brave)
Myzhestvenie (the Manly...fearless could also work I guess)

The words "pobeditel" and "muzhestvenniy" (which means, yes, manly and courageos) never used as epithet names in Russia.
I can add:
Udaloy (Bold)
Gordiy (Pride)
Krasniy (Beautiful)
Groznie Ochi (Frightening Eyes)
Grozniy(Frightening)
Mudriy(Wise)

[deRougemont]

We definitely want to only add epithets that occurred historically. The link that Kingmaker posted has tons of historically used epithets to chose from (though some will have to be spelled using the Roman alphabet).

[Kingmaker]

I really like the suggestions so far.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to revise all the vanilla epithets into native languages as you would have to rewrite every set of traits to be faction specific - or at least the higher level ones that endow epithets.

But I think that having a few historically accurate epithets just for faction leaders adds a lot of colour to the game and having 4 or 5 for the more popular factions is a good place to start. The revisions we have already made to names have improved the game no end for me. I find myself playing factions that I would not have touched before and the game is much more immersive.

[Zalioth]

Ok here goes some Spanish epithets:

Felipe I "el Hermoso". This was the owner of Juana "la loca" 's sighs. (This trait can be used for handsome princes)

Juana "la loca". She was "madly" in love with Felipe I. (we can use this trait for princesses who have a secret love but not the first ranks of that trait, just the latest)

Alejandro "Magno". Alexander "the Great", doesn't need an explanation.

Felipe II "El prudente". He was the son of Carlos I of Spain. He held the empire where the sun never set. (Felipe II "the Cautious" would be the translation. It could be used when a person fears assasins)

Felipe III "El piadoso". ( Felipe III "the Pious" another trait that is self explanatory)

Felipe IV "El Grande" o "el Rey Planeta". (Felipe IV was the king of the spanish gold century. He was called "the great" or "the planet king" because of the great territorial possesions of Spain.This trait could be given to kings whose number of owned provinces was more than a number... but this is just an idea hehe)

Carlos II "El Hechizado". (Carlos II "the haunted" was known so because of his horrible physical appearance... another trait self explanatory).

Fernando VII "El deseado". (It could be translated as "the wanted", because the people wanted him to govern Spain... such a pity he was an absolutist monarch who deceived people's wishes. Maybe for rebel generals who raise in a civil war?)

Alfonso X "El sabio". (Alfonso X "the wise". Self explanatory)

Fernando "El católico"(male) & Isabel "La Católica"(female). (The monarchs of the Reconquista, both were known as "the Catholic" because of their craving for reconquering Spain. They expelled the moors who wouldn't convert and most of the Jews from Spain. It could be used as "el Piadoso("the Pious").)

Alfonso VI "el Bravo". (Alfonso VI "the Brave"... self explanatory. It can be used "el valiente" also but "el bravo" it's better in my opinion... so Pelusa's turn start here )

Ramón Berenguer IV "el Santo". (Ramón Berenguer IV "the Saint"... self explanatory)

Ramiro II "el Monje". (Ramiro II "the Monk"... he was educated in a monastery.)

Alfonso I "el Batallador". (It could be translated as the battle winner. He won 29 battles. Also self explanatory)

Alfonso XI "el Justiciero". (He had to fight the nobles in order to keep them under control, he did't mind what method was neccessary... A possible translation would be "the Punisher")

Pedro I "el Cruel o el Justiciero". (Pedro I "the Cruel" or "the Punisher", same as Alfonso XI, related to assasination traits or the fear traits.)

Enrique IV "el Impotente". (Translated the same as the "Flaccid" trait in RTW... self explanatory. Historically he did not consummate his marriages and he was supposed to be homosexual.)

I'm a bit tired of this today so if anyone wants to go on, please check this link:
http://leodegundia.blogspot.com/2006...os-reales.html
(It's in Spanish )

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

der Bär (the bear) ... tie to ?

der Böse (the mad) ... tie to dread

der Grossmütige (the brave) ... tie to chivalry?

der Heilige (the holy) ... tie to piety

Just a few notes on the translation:

Der Böse = The evil (but still tie to dread - however, it somehow sounds silly - too generic - like "the big" in English would, I assume - "der Grausame (=the cruel) would sound better...)

der Grossmütige = The generous, but still tie to chivalry - best for this would be "der Edle" (= the noble).

Noone would have been called "the holy" during their lifetime IMHO - it would have been blasphemy, I think. Rather use "der Fromme" (= the pious)

[deRougemont]

Just a few notes on the translation:

Der Böse = The evil (but still tie to dread - however, it somehow sounds silly - too generic - like "the big" in English would, I assume - "der Grausame (=the cruel) would sound better...)

der Grossmütige = The generous, but still tie to chivalry - best for this would be "der Edle" (= the noble).

Noone would have been called "the holy" during their lifetime IMHO - it would have been blasphemy, I think. Rather use "der Fromme" (= the pious)

I stand corrected on the translations. All of these were found while I was researching the German names, however the "heilige" was probably given after that person's death, as you say. I'll check all these again before we implement them... yours may be the way to go...

[Zalioth]

So I will go on with some more epithets.

"El Craso" would be used to fat characters, kings were called so when they were not able of riding horses.

"El Capaz" Can't remember where did I see a king who was called "the able".

"El Conquistador" Same as William "the Conqueror".

"El Bastardo", "the Bastard"...

"El Adoptado", "the Adopted"...

"El Marcado", "the Scarred"...

"El Caballeroso", "the Chivalrious"...

"El Cruzado", "the Crusader"...

"El Malvado", "the Bad"...

"El Temerario" from Charles "the Bold" (French: Charles "le Téméraire").

"El Labrador", "the Farmer"...

"El Magnífico", same as Suleiman "the Magnificent".

"El Terrible", "the Terrible".

[finneys13]

Can other factions be added to this?

[Osiris1975]

Here are some arabic ones for you, they look like last names as in Arabic often the last name is basically an epithet. Also, there are some that reserved specifally for God, and others specifically for the prophet Muhammad, therefore I won't list those. I didn't go into history books for these, so I don't know which have been used in history.

al-Batal = "The Hero"
al-Azeem= "The Great"
al-Shoga= "The Brave"
al-Gabbar="The Giant"
al-Shedeed="The Strong" (specfically refers to the strength of a bear)
al-Monazam= not easy to translate, refers to a good planner/strategist.
al-Assad="The Lion"
al-Montakem="The Avenger"
al-Amin="The Trustworthy"
al-Wally= "the Faithful"
al-Hakim= "The Wise"
al-Shareef= "The Honest"
al-Motodayen = "The Pious"
al-Moto'ally = "The Proud", negative conotation
al-Fakhour = "The Proud", positive conotation
al-Damem= "The Fat and Ugly"
al-Shareer= "The Evil"
al-Montaser =" The Victor"
al-Nageh "The Successful"


If there are any specific english ones you want arabic equivalents for, let me know.

[Kingmaker]

I really like the new suggestions. I will try to compile a list of faction-specific epithets and post it for all to review shortly. I'm tempted to make the islamic factions share epithets and Osiris' list is a great starting place.

I was hoping to get some interest from one of the regular virtues & vices modders who could progress this a lot quicker than me, but there hasn't been any yet so bear with me while I plod through the process myself!

[finneys13]

Good luck, hopefully will be finished one day

[Vindahl]

I can see you are probably almost finish here, but if you need some Danish, Swedish or Norwegian Epithets, just let me know...