Fallout 3

[Praxil]

The gameplay is decent and the mission design is great, but it's not driven very well by the story.

:hmmm:What do you think about the gameplay in Tactics? If you play it using turn-based combat option (AFAIK there is three options there) then how was it, how do you feel about it after Fallout 1&2? I'm curious because it isn't exactly same, like in 1&2.

[Stalins Ghost]

Tactics in my eyes took the least impressive aspect of Fallout 1 and 2 and made a game of it.

Infact, I think I even preferred the combat in Fallout 1 and 2 simply because it felt attached to the rest of the game. For me, Tactics just stripped away anything that made me feel compelled to take part in the 1/2 combat

[the_mango55]

Tactics in my eyes took the least impressive aspect of Fallout 1 and 2 and made a game of it.

Kind of true.

Which is why I'm not too concerned about the change from turn based to real time in Fallout 3. The combat in Fallout 1 and 2 wasn't anywhere near the best part of the game.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

The combat in Fallout 1 and 2 wasn't anywhere near the best part of the game.

Quoted for truth.

[Chaigidel]

yeah the tough thing they are gonna have to do, is keep the gritty that 1 and 2 had--- which I think will be next to impossible but if they do it, will be the greatest game evar.

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

I'm not sure you're looking at this in perspective. What is Fallout: Tactics about? Is it a role-playing game? No. It is a strategy game. The game was engineered from the ground-up to place you in challenging, combative situations and at times it is frustratingly efficient at providing such a challenge.

the combat wasn't that tactical or strategic either. the whole game revolves around who can throw the most bullets at the other side. Burst weapons have nearly the same range as sniper rifles (45 as opposed to 50) so there's little point in shooting 1 shot with the sniper each round when you could be sending 10-25 bullets. You want a good tactical combat game? play Jagged Alliance 2. Play any of the xcom series. Jagged Alliance 2 in particular is great, especially with the community made 1.13 mod. Over 500 weapons and items, grenade launchers, mortars, enemies that flank you and throw flares at you in the dark. units will spot for their snipers, and you can determine how many action points you spend aiming for targets. you can add attachments to your guns like folding stocks, laser/infrared/reflex sights, varying magnification scopes, underslung grenade launchers, bipods. the tactics in FO"Tactics" just involves getting line of sight and unloading on your enemies. In JA2 you are actually the commander and you decide what sectors to attack, from which direction you enter, and you have to worry about supply lines, defending sectors from counterattack, lest you expand too quickly and are overstretched, without enough funds to hire new help and armaments to protect your meager gains.

Your dislike of the story is one purely of opinion based on your tastes. I can't argue that. But let me say that in my opinion, the story line was well conceived and furthered the plot better than some RPGs I have played. I cared about finishing each mission succesfully, because in every mission I knew there were "people" counting on me to do so.

Think about it for a moment. When you first start out, there is an adventurous air to the game. You know nothing about the world around except that it is primitive and hostile. You stand alone with the Brotherhood of Steel as a pillar of order in a world of chaos. Progress is made. Villages are subsumed into the Brotherhood as Raider groups are scattered. Progress is halted by contact with an old enemy, and you are then catapulted into a desperate struggle for not just your own life, but the existence of humanity itself. Did you not feel this urgency playing the game? I did.

the "brotherhood" in tactics is just a contrived plot device to give an excuse for new missions. there's nothing in the storyline that makes me feel attached to any of the factions or characters, even the player character. as discussed on the nma forums, this new "brotherhood" really contradicts what the BOS is in the FO universe. It's almost perverse. A "spinoff" that totally spun off in the wrong direction.

don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game for it's several good points, but overall, it's not a great game, and certainly doesn't do the FO franchise justice. and that's just IMHO

:hmmm:What do you think about the gameplay in Tactics? If you play it using turn-based combat option (AFAIK there is three options there) then how was it, how do you feel about it after Fallout 1&2? I'm curious because it isn't exactly same, like in 1&2.

i started with turn based but it was too slow... the computer takes forever to think, even on a modern computer. However, i needed to start in turn based (squad) because it's easier, both keeping alive, getting the best shots and conserving ammo. once my team was firmly established i switched to real time, but you can enter turn based and issue orders at any time (sort of like the combat in KOTOR). you do need to do a lot of babysitting though in real time because your men will gladly burst at each other to get at the enemy (much like your companions in FO1 and 2). unfortunately, it's absolutely crucial to have burst weapons as they are king of the battlefield. When mutants are bursting 50cal DU rounds at you. you don't want to be hitting back with single-shot 7.62 rounds. aimed shots are useless now, they do things like knock out but the damage sucks. the sniper perk isn't nearly as effective as it was and you can only get it near the last missions. fast shot rules

[Sidmen]

In my opinion Fast shot has always ruled... (you can't beat unloading a double barrel shotgun and reloading it in the same turn)

I've played all the fallout games, and enjoyed each and every one of them. When the first one came out I would get off school, start playing, go to school, get off school and then pass out (34 hours without sleep makes you tired) I never realy beat the first one, I got into the BOS and gave up when I got to the military base and all my friends die. I did that about a dozen times.

I got the second durring the summer and never realy beat it. Once you get to the den and get the Magnum revolver you never need another weapon. All I ever did was replace it with its upgraded version. Again, I got to the military base and never beat the game... Tho in FO2 I managed to place enough weapons in Vault 13 to suppily an army. (I filled every locker with weapons, ammo, and armor till they couldn't hold any more)

Fallout Tactics was an Awsome game, I played it for years till I beat it (I restart alot) My only problem with it was that all the non-combat skills were useless. The atmosphere was awsome and the game's story was good IMO. You can't beat forcefully conquering people and making them pay you for protection. Plus you can hire Pip Boy.

Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel kinda sucked. Its like they took fallout and removed the role-playing, the combat system, the different guns, the character creation, and the soul from it. Still, I managed to beat it on the third day I had it and never touched it again.

Fallout 3, IMO could work the way that Beth says it will. As long as the atmosphere, character creation, and roleplaying is good, I could care less about the engine or platform. Also, the fact that you only have control of 1 character helps me (I love having friends, but don't like having to tell them what to do)

[Praxil]

Jagged Alliance 2 in particular is great, especially with the community made 1.13 mod. Over 500 weapons and items, grenade launchers, mortars, enemies that flank you and throw flares at you in the dark. units will spot for their snipers, and you can determine how many action points you spend aiming for targets. you can add attachments to your guns like folding stocks, laser/infrared/reflex sights, varying magnification scopes, underslung grenade launchers, bipods. the tactics in FO"Tactics" just involves getting line of sight and unloading on your enemies. In JA2 you are actually the commander and you decide what sectors to attack, from which direction you enter, and you have to worry about supply lines, defending sectors from counterattack, lest you expand too quickly and are overstretched, without enough funds to hire new help and armaments to protect your meager gains.

Excellent post about JA2.

[Hotspur]

Excellent post about JA2.

Agreed.

[Ulyaoth]

Wow, I'm reading all these posts about FO2, sounds really cool, with all the violence and wierd sex and marriages and whatnot, hope FO3 has all the freedom and options and choices and such. I love apocalyptic worlds.

I still don't trust Beth really. They're still insisting on this stupid level scaling crap, Oblivion had horrible dialogue, had no choices to make, etc. I'll wait to see if old Fallout fans really like it before I get it.

[DisgruntledGoat]

I still don't trust Beth really. They're still insisting on this stupid level scaling crap, Oblivion had horrible dialogue, had no choices to make, etc. I'll wait to see if old Fallout fans really like it before I get it.

*sighs*

Level scaling isn't in Fallout 3. The dialogue has already been improved and more voice actors are being used than were used in oblivion. One thing is for sure, you shouldn't listen to the vocal minority amongst the fallout fans. They have really blown everything out of proportion when it comes to fallout 3.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

*sighs*

Level scaling isn't in Fallout 3. The dialogue has already been improved and more voice actors are being used than were used in oblivion. One thing is for sure, you shouldn't listen to the vocal minority amongst the fallout fans. They have really blown everything out of proportion when it comes to fallout 3.

Indeed.
I'm sure if Beth would confirm that in FO3 there is autosave, NMA would boycott the game because not being able to autosave was the whole point of Fallout.
The entire gameplay of the game rested on the lack of autosave's shoulder.
Also the game must crash every 30 minutes or so.
No crashes is totally unacceptable and shows that Beth has no love for the Fallout games.

[Ulyaoth]

What's NMA? And yes, FO3 does have a kind of level scaling, not as bad as Oblivion's but still there. And what's NMA? And does Beth have former Fallout employees working there? And still, I was very disappointed in Oblivion, and am now skeptical of them.

Although to be honest I haven't actually read up too much on it yet. Is it linear? Were the old ones? As in can you go freely around the world? Do you only play as one guy or do you need a party? I hate having to manage parties in RPGs.

[Roy Batty]

the combat wasn't that tactical or strategic either. the whole game revolves around who can throw the most bullets at the other side. Burst weapons have nearly the same range as sniper rifles (45 as opposed to 50) so there's little point in shooting 1 shot with the sniper each round when you could be sending 10-25 bullets.

That's misrepresentational. The game calls for finesse and strategy in every mission. Throwing bullets around like candy may result in instant death up close, but at long ranges burst weapons have woeful accuracy whereas "precision" weapons recieve bonuses. Not only that, but at many points in the game, firing in bursts more often than not results in the deaths of innocents, example: the Quincy mission.

the "brotherhood" in tactics is just a contrived plot device to give an excuse for new missions. ... as discussed on the nma forums, this new "brotherhood" really contradicts what the BOS is in the FO universe. It's almost perverse. A "spinoff" that totally spun off in the wrong direction.

Since when were the members of NMA forums the deciders of what is canon and what is not? Did you even bother to watch the intro to the game or the 'cinematics' that follow after? They explain this perfectly. The Brotherhood of Steel as featured in Tactics isn't just "The Brotherhood of Steel", they are a rogue faction of the Brotherhood "proper", banished from the west coast to die trying to cross the "great mountains".

don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game for it's several good points, but overall, it's not a great game, and certainly doesn't do the FO franchise justice. and that's just IMHO

In my honest opinion you are incorrect. Fallout: Tactics was a worthy successor. It's just not the RPG you and others may have wanted it to be.

unfortunately, it's absolutely crucial to have burst weapons as they are king of the battlefield. When mutants are bursting 50cal DU rounds at you. you don't want to be hitting back with single-shot 7.62 rounds. aimed shots are useless now, they do things like knock out but the damage sucks. the sniper perk isn't nearly as effective as it was and you can only get it near the last missions. fast shot rules

Stay out of (effective) range of the muties and for heaven's sake, don't bunch your squad up. A burst that fails to hit its target almost universally greases the guy laying prone next to him/her. Keep your squad *well* spaced horizontaly and never have them stacked one in front of the other (vertically) unless those behind are in cover.

Mutants are tough but they don't charge in to get better shots at you. Stay low and just keep beating on them with sniper rifles -and better still- RPGs.

Flanking is also possible but only do so behind cover. Don't order your flanker(s) out of cover until after the mutie has fired a burst -it takes them a while to build up AP and usually you can get *at least* two bursts in with a SAW or M60 before they swing around to dish out some pain. An even better tactic is to lay prone behind a rock or barrel cluster and toss frags over the top. You do this by targeting the ground next to the mutie. The same can be done with RPGs, by the way -a flaw in the game, I'd say.

[DisgruntledGoat]

What's NMA? And yes, FO3 does have a kind of level scaling, not as bad as Oblivion's but still there. And what's NMA? And does Beth have former Fallout employees working there? And still, I was very disappointed in Oblivion, and am now skeptical of them.

Although to be honest I haven't actually read up too much on it yet. Is it linear? Were the old ones? As in can you go freely around the world? Do you only play as one guy or do you need a party? I hate having to manage parties in RPGs.

You know absolutely nothing about FO3 but know it has level scaling? It doesn't. All it has is area scaling. Where they assign difficulty to the area you are in and has nothing to do with the players level at all. This means depending on the level you are you can walk into an area get utterly annihilated come back after leveling up and lay a beat down. Oblivion level scaling is no where to be seen. Loot is based on the area leveling NOT on the character level and also loot is hand placed like morrowind. Lets not try and compare this game to Oblivion cause there isn't anything to draw comparisons to other than the graphics engine.

[Roy Batty]

What's NMA?

NMA stands for No Mutants Allowed. It is a fansite for the Fallout series.

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

That's misrepresentational. The game calls for finesse and strategy in every mission. Throwing bullets around like candy may result in instant death up close, but at long ranges burst weapons have woeful accuracy whereas "precision" weapons recieve bonuses. Not only that, but at many points in the game, firing in bursts more often than not results in the deaths of innocents, example: the Quincy mission.

Quincy is an exception, but it's only really valid up until you rescue the mayor, after that, it matters little whether innocents die

Since when were the members of NMA forums the deciders of what is canon and what is not? Did you even bother to watch the intro to the game or the 'cinematics' that follow after? They explain this perfectly. The Brotherhood of Steel as featured in Tactics isn't just "The Brotherhood of Steel", they are a rogue faction of the Brotherhood "proper", banished from the west coast to die trying to cross the "great mountains".

They have merely expressed their opinon, and it is one that I agree with. The BOS in tactics spun off in the wrong direction

In my honest opinion you are incorrect. Fallout: Tactics was a worthy successor. It's just not the RPG you and others may have wanted it to be.

well this is where our tastes differ, but a lot of people agreed with my assessment and hence why this game never became as sucessful as FO1 and 2

Stay out of (effective) range of the muties and for heaven's sake, don't bunch your squad up. A burst that fails to hit its target almost universally greases the guy laying prone next to him/her. Keep your squad *well* spaced horizontaly and never have them stacked one in front of the other (vertically) unless those behind are in cover.

Mutants are tough but they don't charge in to get better shots at you. Stay low and just keep beating on them with sniper rifles -and better still- RPGs.

Flanking is also possible but only do so behind cover. Don't order your flanker(s) out of cover until after the mutie has fired a burst -it takes them a while to build up AP and usually you can get *at least* two bursts in with a SAW or M60 before they swing around to dish out some pain. An even better tactic is to lay prone behind a rock or barrel cluster and toss frags over the top. You do this by targeting the ground next to the mutie. The same can be done with RPGs, by the way -a flaw in the game, I'd say.

the point is not whether I can reach them or not. it was damage output. At the time you reach mutants you won't be putting points into small arms anyways, and with big guns at 150% or more the accuracy is nearly the same as with the sniper even if 1 round of a 10 round 50cal burst hits it causes more damage than a sniper hit. and burst weapons are way more accurate at range than you give them credit for. even raiders always manage to hit me with ak bursts at ranges where i'm sniping with the hunting rifle. maybe you need to turn up your difficulty setting to hard. it makes a huge difference as enemies have a huge to-hit bonus.

[Cluny the Scourge]

NMA are ****ing retards. Every time I go to look at some of their posts I am sickened after just a couple of pages. It's like they're all on drugs or something.

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

Yeah, they're pretty elitist and generally behave like tards. I never botherd to create an account there but I visit there because they're practically the only place you can find downloads and mods for FO games. I agree with some of their opinions, but definately not the way they express them.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Although to be honest I haven't actually read up too much on it yet. Is it linear? Were the old ones? As in can you go freely around the world? Do you only play as one guy or do you need a party? I hate having to manage parties in RPGs.

Only played FO1 and 2, they weren't linear.
You recieved a main quest that you must spend the entire game trying to solve and in the mean time you do minor quests.
You can go pretty much anywhere you want.
And judging from what I have read FO3 will be keeping with the same concept.
And you play as one guy(or female) but you can find NPC's on the course of your journey that are willing to join you if you want it.