Fallout 3

[Juggernaut]

What exactly is "real fallout"?

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

As for your last point, no I won't buy it. Why would I buy a game that I don't like?

Wow, I didn't know you had played it ??
How was it ??
Or are you saying you didn't like the fallout series ??

Yes, of course they can tack the name on anything they please. That doesn't make it a real fallout.

Even if it is fallout ??
Oh yeah I forgot, if you improve the original gameplay then it's completely different according to you.
Just like Warcraft 3 isn't warcraft etc etc

[The Pope]

What exactly is "real fallout"?

A game that plays like fallout. If Halo 3 played like pokemon, a whole lot of people would be just as cranky as NMA.

Wow, I didn't know you had played it ??
How was it ??
Or are you saying you didn't like the fallout series ??

So you're saying I should buy the game, even though I don't like most of the stuff they've anounced about it, on the off chance that all the videos and interviews are a hoax and the game actually plays like Fallout?

I will buy a game if:
I like the description.
I enjoy the demo.

As I don't like the description, and Bethesda don't do demos, I won't buy it. Unless you're saying I should pirate it?

Even if it is fallout ??
Oh yeah I forgot, if you improve the original gameplay then it's completely different according to you.
Just like Warcraft 3 isn't warcraft etc etc

If you remove the original gameplay, it's completely different. I'd be in the cheerleader squad with the rest of you if they actually were improving rather than replacing it. As it is, it sounds almost nothing like the originals.

If Warcraft 3 had been played in a first person view (presumably from a hero character), I'd say blizzard would have called it something else. By the way, Starcraft 2 is proof you can make a game faithful to its predecessors without being derided as too 90s. If FO3 was half as faithful as SC2 appears to be, NMA would be getting bethesda tattoos.

By the way, turn based RPGs are alive and well. Heard of a little game called pokemon*? It sells ok for a dead genre.

*If Diablo clones get to be RPGs, so does this.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

A game that plays like fallout. If Halo 3 played like pokemon, a whole lot of people would be just as cranky as NMA.

And yet you have never played it and neither have NMA

So you're saying I should buy the game, even though I don't like most of the stuff they've anounced about it, on the off chance that all the videos and interviews are a hoax and the game actually plays like Fallout?

No, I'm saying that you can't say that you don't like it since you never played it.
You can say that it doesn't sound good but you can't say that you like it since it requires you to play it to make such a statement.

If you remove the original gameplay, it's completely different.

Which Beth isn't doing.
Only 2 things they have changed from the originals.
1. Point of view. Let's face it, top down view wasn't nice for this game.
Seeing the fallout world in true 3d will add the mood of the game and improve immersion. So gameplay improved.
2. Turn-based combat. Let's face it, Turn-based combat is shite atleast in Fallout series and was besides the bugginess one of the downsides of a very good game.
And here once again Beth hasn't removed it really. They could go total real-time ala Elder Scrolls but they didn't. But on the other hand they can't go total turn-based since that wouldn't go well besides with the people at NMA which is a minority, a loud and annoying minority but a minority.
So instead they go for the hybrid, a turn-based/real-time combat which proved to work with the KOTOR, Jade Empire and other games just like it.
This is about as close as you can get to say "they are removing features" but not really. Turn-based is still there just in a different form.
So once again, improving the gameplay by changing one of the things that brought down the gameplay in Fallout.

]If FO3 was half as faithful as SC2 appears to be, NMA would be getting bethesda tattoos.

NMA hated Beth before they decided to make Fallout 3 so no, they would never get Beth tattoos. Even if they made the perfect Fallout game NMA would never ever acknowledge it. Their hatred for Beth clouds their judgement.

[Juggernaut]

A game that plays like fallout. If Halo 3 played like pokemon, a whole lot of people would be just as cranky as NMA.

Why would a "real fallout" be a game that plays like fallout?
The moment it's a different game it's not "real fallout".
Simply put, the definition of "real fallout" is solely based on the totally subjective opinion of the individuals without any objective standard.

[Chaigidel]

pope I still think you are from NMA you just reference them too much to not be. :O

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

pope I still think you are from NMA you just reference them too much to not be. :O

Nah, while he is using their base-less claims I don't think he is from there.
If he was then he would have started flaming us for not getting on our knees and worshipping Fallout 2 three times a day.

[The Pope]

pope I still think you are from NMA you just reference them too much to not be. :O

Thats because anyone who says anything bad about FO3 gets lumped in with NMA. Any other game can be criticized, but the fanaticism defending this one is just ridiculous. Anyone who thinks turning Fallout into a console FPS is anything other than utterly faithful to the prequels gets 'lol goback2NMA troll". They must be a pretty big niche if they have the manpower to troll every single forum on the internet, like some people seem to believe.

If I'm 'from' anywhere, it would be the Mount & Blade forums. Maybe they're just a front for NMA . Watch out, there's trolls under the bed!

NMA hated Beth before they decided to make Fallout 3 so no, they would never get Beth tattoos. Even if they made the perfect Fallout game NMA would never ever acknowledge it. Their hatred for Beth clouds their judgement.

Hadn't even heard of NMA until recently, so I can't really say anything about that one. Beth did get the Fallout rights quite a long time ago though, so it might have happened then rather than after the announcement that they were making it.

[Gleemonex]

I've never played Fallout 1 & 2, but I'm familiar with the setting. However, I have played X-Com and KOTOR, and IMHO KOTOR's CTB system is clearly superior. Although I like FPS combat too. My favourite compromise, from an immersion standpoint, is TPS (Max Payne style). Either way, if Bethesda don't water it down to sneak into Wal-Mart, I'm sure Fallout 3 will be, at the very least, a good game.

-Glee

[VALIS]

Fallout fans are idiots.


"Grrr.......I hate fallout 3 because it doesn't have really ugly looking isometric 2D graphics grrr....."

Thats what it boils down to.
Its still going to me an RPG, its going to have leveling,experience points,multiple plot points etc etc.....just like the RPGS of the 90's.
The only difference is that the camera angle has changed, and for some bizzare reason some people hat this fact, they can't seem to understand the notion that videogames have evolved and no one in their right mind would pay money for a modern game that looks as crappy as the old fallout games.

The fallout community are nuts, you have all these geeks saying they won't play the game even though they've never played it.......wow, that makes sense.

[Gleemonex]

While I never called the Pope a NMA troll, I as some others here strongly disagree with him.
However flaming those that do call him a NMA troll isn't really making things better.

I'm not a fairy godmother -- I have no obligation to "make things better".

While your point is valid that people shouldn't call him that, there are alot better ways to say that then in the way you just did and the point you made got lost in the flames.

Maybe you can ennumerate them for me, then.

No matter how often you read Kafka to a lemur, he'll still use the salad fork for his filet mignon.

Sorry, dad.

Anyways, if everyone's done proselytising...

Like I said, I don't agree with Pope that ditching the isometric, turn-based gameplay is an act of betrayal -- but I can see the concern. The biggest problem I could see with a Fallout game in a FPS/TPS paradigm is NPC management.

Poor aiming systems combined with mediocre (by human standards) team combat AI, plus a retaliation mechanism, can lead to some serious suspension-of-disbelief-shattering trouble.

Also, team management in a FPS CTB combat system (as it presently exists, at least) is awkward at best.

Combine this with the "best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, DEAD" KOTOR system, and there are valid concerns out there.

Hopefully Bethesda can solve these particular issues before Fallout hits the shelves. In an ideal (for me) world, the NPC AI would be made user friendly first and foremost, then they would be tightly scripted to the PC (like in Brothers in Arms) to cull out any wackiness that can arise from freewheeling NPCs in an open-ended game world.

-Glee

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

I think the main problem hardcore FO fans have are with the teaser screenshots that beth recently released. the supermutant doesn't look like a supermutant. It looks more like an warcraft orc with a car tire on its shoulder. the vault suit doesn't look like a vault suit - it looks like baggy denim while its supposed to be tight spandex. and the sledgehammer doesnt look like a sledgehammer, it's a fire hydrant on a stick. So, it seems beth has no intention on being artistically faithful to the original series, and that leaves very little chance that they'll be faithful with the storyline and game mechanics. It'll just be another mediocre rpg loosely based on the FO universe, and that's a disservice to an awesome IP franchise. In short, they're doing a crappy job of it and don't deserve to have their product associated with FO and further soiling its good name.

[the_mango55]

Poor aiming systems combined with mediocre (by human standards) team combat AI, plus a retaliation mechanism, can lead to some serious suspension-of-disbelief-shattering trouble.

Also, team management in a FPS CTB combat system (as it presently exists, at least) is awkward at best.

Combine this with the "best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, DEAD" KOTOR system, and there are valid concerns out there.

You obviously don't remember the team combat AI in the original fallout. They were constantly spraying you and each other with showers of bullets, some were more a danger to you than to the enemy.

Fallout 2 they were a little better, but still nothing to write home about. Fallout 3 has nowhere to go but up.

And I don't think the KOTOR system you described was any worse than the "Shoot in the head, shoot in the head, shoot in the head, shoot in the head, DEAD" system of the Fallout games.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

I'm not a fairy godmother -- I have no obligation to "make things better".

However you are obligated to follow the TOS so keep the flames to yourself.

You obviously don't remember the team combat AI in the original fallout.

I've never played Fallout 1 & 2, but I'm familiar with the setting.

Fallout 3 has nowhere to go but up.

Yeah it's impossible for it to get worse.
Heck even Oblivion was better in this area(even tho it wasn't very good either).

[Hotspur]

They could have used something like the Silent Storm engine (like Jagged Alliance 3 will). Turn based tactical with an enemy AI that will actually use cover and throw hand grenades. Fully destructible terrain and rag-doll physics. Ramp up the poly count and voilà!

[VALIS]

I'm not a fairy godmother -- I have no obligation to "make things better".



Maybe you can ennumerate them for me, then.

No matter how often you read Kafka to a lemur, he'll still use the salad fork for his filet mignon.


Sorry, dad.

Anyways, if everyone's done proselytising...

Like I said, I don't agree with Pope that ditching the isometric, turn-based gameplay is an act of betrayal -- but I can see the concern. The biggest problem I could see with a Fallout game in a FPS/TPS paradigm is NPC management.

Poor aiming systems combined with mediocre (by human standards) team combat AI, plus a retaliation mechanism, can lead to some serious suspension-of-disbelief-shattering trouble.

Also, team management in a FPS CTB combat system (as it presently exists, at least) is awkward at best.

Combine this with the "best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, best attack, DEAD" KOTOR system, and there are valid concerns out there.

Hopefully Bethesda can solve these particular issues before Fallout hits the shelves. In an ideal (for me) world, the NPC AI would be made user friendly first and foremost, then they would be tightly scripted to the PC (like in Brothers in Arms) to cull out any wackiness that can arise from freewheeling NPCs in an open-ended game world.

-Glee

woah woah woah..........

I've never played Fallout 1 & 2

You're attacking FO3 for not staying faithful to the originals, yet you've never played them?

So you have irrational dislike against a game you've never played comparing it to two others you've never played either?

wow, just wow.

[Gleemonex]

You obviously don't remember the team combat AI in the original fallout. They were constantly spraying you and each other with showers of bullets, some were more a danger to you than to the enemy.

Fallout 2 they were a little better, but still nothing to write home about. Fallout 3 has nowhere to go but up.

And I don't think the KOTOR system you described was any worse than the "Shoot in the head, shoot in the head, shoot in the head, shoot in the head, DEAD" system of the Fallout games.

Oh, I was only speaking of turn-based vs. CTB in general. As I mentionned, I have no direct experience with Fallout itself. If the above is indeed the case with Fallout combat -- and even fans have admitted that the combat left to be desired -- then I don't imagine there's much to lose by trying a new combat system.

However you are obligated to follow the TOS so keep the flames to yourself.

Dude, you've made your point. Mission accomplished. Now get over yourself.

You're attacking FO3 for not staying faithful to the originals, yet you've never played them?

So you have irrational dislike against a game you've never played comparing it to two others you've never played either?

I'm going to need you to quote where I "attack" Fallout 3, and where I state that I "dislike a game I've never played" because I have no bleeding clue what (or who) you're talking about. Unless you quoted me by mistake, in which case I accept your apology

-Glee

[Chaigidel]

its amazing how people can see the exact same thing and get opposite sensory readings from them

I saw the fallout supermutant and I thought hey supermutant
I saw fire hydrant on a stick and I thought thats a mean sledgehammer
I saw baggy vault suit and said wow that makes sense -- its 200 years after the first fallout game and maybe they got tired OF GODDAMN TIGHTS.

[Sidmen]

Wait! the vaultsuit was spandex??? I thought it was jean-material.... Its so hard to tell when your char was only a quarter of an inch tall...
Supermuntant, looked a little slim to me, and I thought all the supermutants were dead???
Sledgehammer, Looked a little wierd, but hey! It's been 200 years since the last sledge was made, improvize. I lkie that you can build your own equipment, I hope you don't have to have recipes, I want to make stopsign metal armor, with streetsign armguards.

Anyway, I've heard some stupid analogies about what the switch is like, halo to pokemon -- not at all. More like Halo 3 in 3rd person, with changeable armor... Sure its different, but not alltogether bad.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Supermuntant, looked a little slim to me, and I thought all the supermutants were dead???

Well if I remember correctly no they weren't dead.
The lab that made them was destroyed but I'm sure some of them survived.
Of course comes the issue on how they managed to get to the west coast 100 years after FO2.
And they were sterile.
I got 2 theories.
1. Evolution kicked in and they all of the sudden got fertile and have started breeding.
2. Someone found the plans on how to make mutants and managed to get to the west coast where he/she would be free to create these things without getting bothered by any decendants of the vault-dweller.

I'm dying to find out.