Slingers are the death of me

[Callicles]

I'm playing as the Greeks. It is 250BC and I've liberated Corinth and Chalchis from the Macedonians. I've also got Crete.

I hadn't fought a battle with the Macedonians for ten or so years (they were pushing up into Thrace), but now the war has flared up again and I'm being attacked by armies with a few unites of pikemen, but mostly akontistai, slingers, and peltasts.

These Macedonian slingers are slaughtering my armies: my hippeis can't get near the enemy line without losing 25, routing, and being utterly destroyed while fleeing; my slingers, for whatever reason, aren't as effective as Macedonian slingers so I can't defeat them through skirmishing; my Iphikratian Hoplites don't match up with the Macedonian Pikemen and I don't have heavy cavalry to perform Alexander's hammer and anvil (though I have tried to use Thureophoroi for the same effect with mixed results).

Basically, if anyone has encountered this problem before, or knows the proper way to take out slingers, please let me know.

[Kennylz]

I just flank some light cavalry around the outsides, and just charge them to get them to start fleeing back into their lines. Don't actually have to kill them, just have them too occupied to be shooting, so your can deal with the real infantry.

I've never had a problem being beaten by slingers..

[TWoxy]

Surely classical hoplites are heavily armoured enough to resist them? If not, try and draw the enemy on to mountains to fight him where his slingers will be less effective or hide some troops in long grass that will be able to chase them down when they get near.

[Ludens]

With a few exceptions (IIRC the Getai spendonetai) all slingers have AP bullets, so using slow, armoured units against them is a good way of wasting money. Against slingers I tend to use a screen of ranged infantry (or shielded light infantry if those are not available) in loose formation to catch, and if possible return, their slingers' fire, while light cavalry at flanks tries to harras and occupy their ranged units. This often won't rout them initially, but it makes it hard for them to return fire and allows your heavy units to do their job.

BTW, be glad that you aren't facing Celtic slingers. They are dirt cheap and have an even longer range the Balearics.

[Leonidas480bc]

Slingers are one of my favorite units as the Greeks/Epriote i normally have 5 units per army. They are the only light skirmishers that i use, besides the 2 units of sythian horse archers. On offense i place them out front of my phalanx and then creep them up to fire on ONE unit at a time. Priorities are ranged/cavalry/fleeing troops. On defense i do the same thing but the AI will rush me so i fall back behind my phalanx and move to the sides to provide support. When fighting other ranged units i will charge the ranged unit with my general not making contact just but just to make him move and fire at that unit with my slingers.

[Martocticvs]

I'm loving the celtic slingers in my Casse campaign at the moment. They're not so effective against the more armoured Aedui units, but against the Sweboz they're excellent.

[Callicles]

I'm glad to hear that the problem wasn't just poor strategy and tactics on my part, but that the slingers are more powerful in EB than I'm used to.

Also, are Classical Hoplites better than Iphikratean Hoplites? By their stats they shouldn't be, but (for whatever reason) my earlier armies of Classical hoplites were more effective against the Macedonians than were my armies of reformed Hoplites. Is this an exploit? Or, perhaps its just that I don't know how to use reformed hoplites like I do classical hoplites?

[Kennylz]

People who dislike the slingers in EB claim they are way over-powered. The people who actually make the mod, claim they are fine.

The truths somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't hurt to make the celtic ones a bit more expensive, or less effective.

[Ludens]

The truths somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't hurt to make the celtic ones a bit more expensive, or less effective.

Agreed. Their price and description indicate a levy unit, yet they are on par with professional slingers like the Balearics.

[hooahguy14]

I'm playing as the Greeks. It is 250BC and I've liberated Corinth and Chalchis from the Macedonians. I've also got Crete.

I hadn't fought a battle with the Macedonians for ten or so years (they were pushing up into Thrace), but now the war has flared up again and I'm being attacked by armies with a few unites of pikemen, but mostly akontistai, slingers, and peltasts.

These Macedonian slingers are slaughtering my armies: my hippeis can't get near the enemy line without losing 25, routing, and being utterly destroyed while fleeing; my slingers, for whatever reason, aren't as effective as Macedonian slingers so I can't defeat them through skirmishing; my Iphikratian Hoplites don't match up with the Macedonian Pikemen and I don't have heavy cavalry to perform Alexander's hammer and anvil (though I have tried to use Thureophoroi for the same effect with mixed results).

whats that? never heard of it!

[Ludens]

whats that? never heard of it!

The Hammer and Anvil (a.k.a. Sword and Shield) is a standard battle tactic, which involves using part of your army (the anvil) to pin your opponent and another part (the hammer) to hit them from the flank or back.

[hooahguy14]

oh- i just didnt recognize the name. i just know it as "pin then flank."

[AceOfSpades]

You have to have stronger cavalry than your opponent, though.

[hooahguy14]

that might be hard, since the roman cavalry isnt what i expected it to be....

[Cornholio]

the only thing able to neutralize my "parthian manoeuvre" are the slingers. but the AI isnt good enough to protect them as well to take any advantage of it in most cases

[Siphur]

Love using slingers on skirmishers and pulling them away from main lines of infantry then having my cavalry cut them to pieces.

[Teucris]

Slingers>Archers.Sure Archers can use fire but slingers can punch through the armor of any unit in the game if they have some experience and are higher quality.

[Paul d]

lol as casse i use slingers to kill entire units of boatroas and generals chariots.


i actually think that ranged weapons need to be increased, especially javelins. each javelin thorw only kills about 5-8 guys on huge scale, and realistically, a hail of javelins could possibly kill half the unit. depending on armour and shields of course.

[GreyFox]

If half a unit is slaughtered before it even gets a chance to fight then they'd be overpowered and you'd have no problem buying just hastati and steamrolling the poor AI.

The javelin was not the end all and be all of ancient warfare - it still took hours of combat to beat the Helvetii at Bibracte.

[Paul d]

hmm. i think that missile damage should be increased, but less accurate and less ammo.

and camillian hastati and princepes should only get 1 pilum like the description states.