BROKEN CRESCENT: Ghulams and Generals

[teh.frickin.pope]

The etching on the helmet are superb Strelac, and the face covering just plain scary. Good Job!

[Strelac]

thanks to all for your generous comments. Here is the remaining two Dismounted Ghulam skins. With this, the Ghulam units have been concluded. See rosters for each faction, how to recruit your favorite Ghulam units

Cheers,
Strelac

[The Mongol]

Simply incredible, you and Alpha are gods among men!

[nnnm]

amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing

[Ahiga]

For quick reference, these guys will be likely exclusive to the Ghorids, making up both their highest non jihad infantrymen, and their highest cavalry + their general unit.

They really are fantastic Strelac. Look so ominous, elite, and noble, but certainly not a pomp and courtly-life noble, but rather a vicious and warrior-supreme noble.

[Hounf of Culan]

OMG those are amazing, you and Alphadelta are incredible!

[teh.frickin.pope]

Man, I can't believe the level of detail you and AD put into ya'lls work, I mean even the bracers for chrissake.

*speechless*

[Randarkmaan]

For quick reference, these guys will be likely exclusive to the Ghorids, making up both their highest non jihad infantrymen, and their highest cavalry + their general unit.

They really are fantastic Strelac. Look so ominous, elite, and noble, but certainly not a pomp and courtly-life noble, but rather a vicious and warrior-supreme noble.

Which factions will have Ghulams (any kind of Ghulam), so far I've seen them in the rosters of the Ghorids and the Ghaznavids, but shouldn't they be available to the Seljuqs as well? And possibly the Zengids (when they are included), the Egyptians have Mamluks.

[Eraser]

Nice skins strelac, suitably terrifying!

[AlphaDelta]

Which factions will have Ghulams (any kind of Ghulam), so far I've seen them in the rosters of the Ghorids and the Ghaznavids, but shouldn't they be available to the Seljuqs as well? And possibly the Zengids (when they are included), the Egyptians have Mamluks.

The seljuks will get heavy ghulams. Egypt is getting new ghulams specific to the region, possibly in 2 varieties. Qara-ghulams (light) and mamluk ghulams (heavy). Both being horse archers, the heavy ghulams being capable in mellee. The zengids wont be in 1.0 but will probably be added in the futre and will most likely get an earlier style of ghulam.

[Randarkmaan]

Egypt is getting new ghulams specific to the region, possibly in 2 varieties. Qara-ghulams (light) and mamluk ghulams (heavy).

That is for the Ayyubid dynasty, right? As I suspect the Mamluk dynasty will have more than just one type of Mamluk.
Anyway, don't call them Mamluk Ghulams as "Mamluk" and "Ghulam" are basically to words describing the same type of soldier, "Mamluk" was used more during this period rather than "Ghulam", but it described the same type of soldier (i.e. one purchased as a slave and then trained as an elite soldier).

[Ahiga]

Which factions will have Ghulams (any kind of Ghulam), so far I've seen them in the rosters of the Ghorids and the Ghaznavids, but shouldn't they be available to the Seljuqs as well? And possibly the Zengids (when they are included), the Egyptians have Mamluks.

As AD mentions, the Seljuks, the Zengids, probably the Rum Turks (The art of one of the Elite heavies was from a seljuk of Rum picture. The Light Ghulam art was from an atabeg of the Turks, which includes the Rum turks, picture), will be getting Ghulams. We may find a ghulam or two to give to the Abbasids, but that remains to be seen. Originally they were going to get one, but what type and what level I'm not sure, nor am I sure if they will still be getting one.

[AlphaDelta]

Randarkmaan,

I understand that Mamluk means the same as Ghulam, and that is definitely not what the unit will be called. I am using "Mamluk ghulam" to try to limit the discussion to the ghulam units that were recruited by the Ayyubids (and subsequently called Mamluks), instead of talking about the Mamluks in the Mamluk dynasty.

As I suspect the Mamluk dynasty will have more than just one type of Mamluk.

There wont be a Mamluk dynasty so to speak of. Our Ayyubid roster is designed to simulate the changing of the military from Fatimid, to Ayyubid, with the early roster containing mainly ex fatimid units, and the late roster containing the heavy Mamluk horse archer unit.

We still need help with how both qara-ghulam and heavy Mamluk units looked during the time of the Ayyubids. Were the qara-ghulams Turkic? What type of armour did elite Mamluk units wear in the time of the Ayyubids? Heavy lamellar seems to be an eastern style that was probably brought to the Mamluks (dynasty) by the Mongols. Do you have pictorial resources that show an early 13th century Mamluk?

Cheers

[Randarkmaan]

I think the Qara-Ghulam were Turkic, as far as I know "qara" is Turkic and means "black", referring not to skin colour, but to persons of low and/or obscure birth. I also think they would be horse-archers as with what I have read seems to siginfy that these were Saladin's most effective horse-archers, Saladin's close combat cavalry seems to have been made up primarily of Kurds (eg. the Tawashiya), and Arabs (both tribal auxiliaries and mercenaries from Syria). Because of their more stationary "volley-fire" tactics, they could wear heavier armour and required less horses than Turcomans, also used by Saladin. The books also mention that Saladin's ghulams also practised shooting on the move as well, at least more than other armies' ghulams.



I think this pictures Ayyubid horse-archers, probably Ghulams as they are armoured, their armour is a chainmail hauberk extending to the elbows and to the knees, they also wear a lamellar cuirass for extra protection (this was made out of either iron or leather), also note the Italian helmet on the soldier in the middle, the territory controlled by the Ayyubid sultanate was chronically short of iron, but they made up for it by importing much ore (mainly from India) and also importing ready-made pieces of equipment as well as requiring it in tribute (Saladin received armour and swords as tributes from many castles and cities at times) or receiving it as gifts (the Byzantiens once gave lots of armour and weapons captured from a Norman army to Saladin as a token of friendship).

[nnnm]

AlphaDelta
I understand that Mamluk means the same as Ghulam

that's right. it's not quite known when mamluk term been used. In times of Qilch Arsalan, his vizier Nizam Al-Mulk used the term mamluk rather than ghulam ( which mean young man) in is book for describing his elite troops.
Qurah-Ghulamiyah (or Qara-Ghulam) were troops of native Egyptian and Syrian. they are lower than the tawashiyah. Since the are not turkoman the probably used javelin. Tawadhiyah most of them were turkoman (Specially Salahi or Sultani -Royal- Twashiyah) ,but the are the heaviest troops in saladin army. they used heavy cavalry tactics with bow tactics( so I suggested to make medium unit with bow or javelin and heavy one with lances - also Kataphractoi used heavy cavalry and bow tactics-).
about early mamluks in egypt and syria they were not heavily armored as Tawashiyah in the early period. in saladin time mamluk were not more than 500 soldier. they used for attacking and capturing the the General units or stop charging cavalry then retreat fast throwing arrows at them and protect the general (small elite unit for special missions). it took time until the mamluk training finish and they becoum ready( there training start in the late of saladin times). heavy mamluk and most of the mamluk units appeared in the late Ayyubied destiny ( in time of Al-Salih ayyup- last ayyubied- specially).

[Qarama]

Randarkmaan is right Qara (kara) means black or dark in turkish.

[Randarkmaan]

that's right. it's not quite known when mamluk term been used. In times of Qilch Arsalan, his vizier Nizam Al-Mulk used the term mamluk rather than ghulam ( which mean young man) in is book for describing his elite troops.
Qurah-Ghulamiyah (or Qara-Ghulam) were troops of native Egyptian and Syrian. they are lower than the tawashiyah. Since the are not turkoman the probably used javelin. Tawadhiyah most of them were turkoman (Specially Salahi or Sultani -Royal- Twashiyah)

Are you sure they were Egyptian or Syrian? Judging by the name I think they would be slave troops, who were usually taken as prisoners, then made into slaves and then sold. I don't think they would enslave their own people to make them into soldiers, now would they? Also concerning javelins, I'm pretty sure they were regarded as old fashioned by this time, the Fatimids seem to have abandoned javelins in the late 11th century, one of the reasons being that horse-armour had become more common. Simply saying that if they did not use the bow, they most likely used lance or sword, as javelins (at least as a cavalry weapon) seems to have been regarded as old fashioned.

And regarding the Tawadhiyah (It's the same as Tawashi right?) I've read that they were partly made up of free Kurds and partly of Mamluks/Ghulams of whom most were Turks, but that's basically what you are saying.

[Modestus]

I just have to say that those units look absolutely beautiful amazing well done.

[nnnm]

thanks Randarkmaan,
Qara Ghulam (Qurah Ghulamiyah) were not slaves (Twashiyah also not slaves). in arabic ghulam means young man but in general it means young. the father called his son ghulam (my young son -about 16 years old-) and sultan called his bodyguard ghulam (or ghelman -plural-) also mean young sons of the sultan. Tawashiyah are the best unit then Qara ghulam. how they look like???? I didn't see them . i know Qara ghulam from locals in Egypt and Syria (mostly egypt) and there many nations in these tow regions. kurds and arabs were the second large groups in the army after turkomans. about using javelin it's not old fashion. heavy cavalry used to use them both bows and javelin even in the Ottoman Empire.

I'm sorry if someone confused because (iyah). it mean plural (group). for example tawashy => plural (Tawashiyah)
Tabardary - axe bearer - (tabardariyyah) , Ghualm (Ghulamiyah or Ghelman)

[Strelac]

as I am porting my units in the game, I though I would share a couple of screenies.

enjoy
Strelac

Uber cool archers


Ahh, that's where the bow disappears when they switch to secondary weapons


Junior Ghulam charge
(the lance is courtesy of our AD)




to the last drop of blood, infidels!