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Thread: Secret Service Calls on Owner of "King George" Sig

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    Secret Service Calls on Owner of "King George" Sign

    by Matthew Rothschild
    *
    Secret Service Calls on Owner of "King George" SignIt was August 26, and Derek Kjar, 19, was in the backyard of his home in Salt Lake City stringing up plants in his garden.

    He got a voice mail message on his cell phone, so he decided to check it.

    "Derek, this is Agent Kim from the U.S. Secret Service, and I need to speak to you as soon as possible. Please call me." Kim left his number, Kjar says.

    "At first, I thought it was a joke," Kjar says. "My friend Marisa said, in jest, that they were trying to flag all the gay people in America." Kjar is gay.

    He called his mother, and she told him to call the man back in the morning.

    That's what he did.

    "Agent Kim answered," Kjar recalls. "He asked me where I was. I said I was at work. He said he'd be right there. I asked what it was about. And he said he couldn't disclose that over the phone."

    Kjar works at his parents' dry cleaners. He waited there until a silver Grand Am pulled up to the shop, and two agents came out: Agent Kim and another man, Kjar says.

    "Before we knew it, my stepdad was gone out back talking to the agents," Kjar says. "When my stepdad came back, they said they wanted to talk to me alone."

    Kjar followed them out back.

    "When I went out there, they said they had a call from my neighbor about a sticker on my car," he says. "And right then, I knew exactly what they were talking about: It was a graphic I had printed off a website on my computer, and I just taped it on to my car with scotch tape. It said: KING GEORGE-Off With His Head."

    The agents asked Kjar where the sticker was, so he took them out to his car. "I opened up the door and got it off the seat and handed it to them," he says. "They asked why it wasn't on the window anymore, and I said the sun had melted it off."

    Then they got down to brass tacks.

    "They started addressing me about how it could be a threat," he says. "They said it was 'borderline terrorism.' "

    "Isn't that sort of :wub:? Doesn't that take my freedom of speech away?"

    No, the agents said, repeating the "borderline terrorism" charge, Kjar says.

    The agents then went inside with Kjar, and they interrogated him alone for another forty minutes, he says.

    "They asked me if I was serious about making a threat to the President," he says. "And I said no, the only thing I was hoping to do was get a few people a little ticked off at me or maybe get another vote for Kerry."

    The questions continued.

    "They asked if I had ever made a threat to the President, or ever written to the President or contacted him in any way or ever met him," he says.

    "I said no, I had better things to do with my time.

    "Then they asked me if I had ever studied assassination or terrorism, or the former assassination of other government officials, or ever read books in school about it, or done any school projects on it.

    "I told them no, I hadn't.

    "They asked if I had been in the military or any type of a militia groups.

    "I was kind of baffled about that. 'No, no, no, not even close, way off.' "

    To Kjar's relief, his mother finally arrived.

    "When my mother walked into the room, both agents stood up and puffed their chest out and said you can't be in here. And my mother said, 'I don't give a ******. He's my son.'

    So she just sat right next to me and waited with me."

    Then they probed his political affiliations.

    "They asked me, 'Are you a part of an equal rights organization or blah or blah or any group opposed to the President?"

    And then they got personal, he says.

    "They started asking me about my relationship with my roommates," he says. "And whether I went out to clubs. They asked whether I smoke, or drank, or took drugs. Then they started asking about my physical characteristics: If blond was my natural hair color, if I wore contacts, and if had any identifying marks, like tattoos, moles, and scars, and where they were or what they were from, and whether I had ever had any plastic surgery."

    When they were done with the questioning, the agents had an assignment for Kjar.

    "They asked me to write a statement about the sticker, why I got the sticker, where, how, and why I put it up," he says.

    He complied. "It was about a page and a half," he says. "They made me sign it. Basically, I said I found it on the Internet, I thought it was funny, and it was a little edgier than most that I'd seen, so I printed it up and put it in my car hoping to get a few laughs."

    Before they left, they took three photographs of Kjar, he says, and they warned him: "Do not post or print or hand out the sticker again."

    Kjar feels that his rights were violated. "I've almost lost my freedom of speech," he says. "I make one statement, and I get shot down, while everyone is out there with their bumper stickers and signs."

    Kjar suspects that his neighbors with Bush stickers all over their car turned him in. "They won't even speak to us," he says. "Since the incident, the police have been over at my neighbors' house several times. For a while, I just felt trapped. I didn't want to leave my house because I thought my neighbors would hassle me. Or if we had a party at my house, the neighbors might report us."

    The Secret Service office in Salt Lake City would not comment on the story, except to say that Lon Garner of the Denver office would be answering any questions.

    "The inference of a veiled threat is what we look at," Special Agent Garner says. "That's exactly what that was. By law, we investigate all those types of threats. We present those to the U.S. attorney. A veiled threat will always be investigated by the Secret Service. That's what we do. Always."

    Garner was incredulous at the suggestion of an infringement on civil liberties.

    "How could his freedom of speech be violated would be my question," he says.

    Dani Eyer, executive director of the ACLU, offers an explanation. "It would take an extreme imagination on the part of the Secret Service to consider this sign as an imminent threat," Eyer says. "Anybody with any familiarity with the Declaration of Independence or the Revolutionary War would know that 'Off With His Head' was political hyperbole."

    Eyer says the Secret Service has an obligation to investigate threats, but also an obligation to take context into consideration and to assess intent. Eyer adds that it was "inappropriate for the Secret Service to confiscate" Kjar's sign.

    While he was intimidated at first, Kjar says he isn't anymore.

    "I've gotten a lot of support from people who share my opinions or even support Bush but believe that it was uncool that they went after me."

    He says he may return to posting signs.

    "I've been kind of considering making some T-shirts or actual bumper stickers," he says. "What can they do to me except keep taking my sticker away? I'm not a threat."
    Source: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-31.htm


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    Niles Crane's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Okay then.

    This is why I'm not American.

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    i wonder, would they have been so hot on follwoing this up if the person with the sticker was a well to do middle class middle aged white american? i'm assuming from the name that the "victim" was of arabic descent here...

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    Niles Crane's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    tBP, you make me feel guilty for not coming up with an intellectual post in a section such as this.

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    Originally posted by the Black Prince@Oct 13 2004, 07:19 AM
    i wonder, would they have been so hot on follwoing this up if the person with the sticker was a well to do middle class middle aged white american? i'm assuming from the name that the "victim" was of arabic descent here...
    Ah of course it must have been 'racially motivated'.

    My partner for the part time job I am doing while waiting to hear back on Graduate School...he thinks there is a conspiracy against blacks in the world especially by Europeans to keep Africa impoverished and unable to succeed. In the face of such a weird idea you have to understand that I dont take these so-called 'racial' ideas or theories very seriously.

    Another thing too, it was a neighbor who called this in...its possible that the neighbor exaggerated things and really played it up over the phone to the Secret Service...kind of funny how that article doesnt tell us what the neighbor said. Also its already been said before, but any perceived threat to the President has to be checked out. If the neighbor made it sound like this kid was posting stickers with Bush dying etc..depending on what the neighbor said the Secret Service would have to go and check it out. Lets not be so fast with the Sieg Heil stuff either. I havent seen trucks with loudspeakers and swastikas running down my street telling me how our Fuh..President plans on destroying the Jews and annihilating communism in the Fatherla...in the country.
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    Portuguese Rebel's Avatar Civitate
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    First, is this thing real?

    Second, if it is why doesn't anyone do something about it?

    Third, why did Kjar put up with all that bullshet? Why didn't he told them to get the :wub: out and come back with a warrant if they wanted to talk to me? That's what i would do... and in a free country i was in my right to do it.

    Fourth, Kjar is a wuss, i would literally paint the sticker all over my car and march up and down my freakin street until i was out of gas.

    Fifth, is this thing real?

    Lets not be so fast with the Sieg Heil stuff either.
    How many killers of political figures do you know that drive around in cars with stickers saying that they'll kill someone? It's ridiculous...

    I havent seen trucks with loudspeakers and swastikas running down my street telling me how our Fuh..President plans on destroying the Jews and annihilating communism in the Fatherla...in the country.
    Hitler didn't have 24/7 TV channels :p


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    Third, why did Kjar put up with all that bullshet? Why didn't he told them to get the :wub: out and come back with a warrant if they wanted to talk to me? That's what i would do... and in a free country i was in my right to do it.
    Bad plan. The secret service does NOT f-ck around. These aren't some hick cops you can push around, these guys take their jobs seriously. If he resisted at all they would have booked him right there.

    It's a travesty,
    "Jamf was only a fiction, to help him explain what he felt so terribly, so immediately in his genitals for those rockets each time exploding in the sky... to help him deny what the could not possibly admit: that he might be in love, in sexual love, with his, and his race's, death." - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

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    First, is this thing real?
    As real as pie. :p

    Second, if it is why doesn't anyone do something about it?
    What can they do about it? It's the ****** CIA. Does the kid know their full names? No. Can the ACLU do anything about this? No.

    Third, why did Kjar put up with all that bullshet? Why didn't he told them to get the :wub: out and come back with a warrant if they wanted to talk to me? That's what i would do... and in a free country i was in my right to do it.

    Fourth, Kjar is a wuss, i would literally paint the sticker all over my car and march up and down my freakin street until i was out of gas.
    If I was in the same situation as the guy, I would have done the same thing... I would have stayed real quite when they spoke to me, answer what they wanted to hear, and then leave. There have been cases of people being arrested in the U.S. without due process of law after they are suspected of being a terrorist, so if you so much as go against their will, you could be jailed without a credible charge and without being able to express your freedoms until they release you days or months later.

    After 9-11, there was a reported 600 Arabs who were suspected of terrorism that were arrested without a charge. Many of these guys were not released from jail for months. Funny thing is, the press didn't even touch the story. I think they are scared to get involved in these things... especially right after 9-11.

    Just remember... be nice members of the Bush Youth Group and follow your duties as a proud patriot of America.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

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    Necrobrit's Avatar Urbanis Legio
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    Indeed, I would have jumped at the govornments throat if I were a reporter... "Guilty until proven guilty"

    What is worce though, is that other countrys are alowing the U.S. to take their citizens into custody... and not protest at all. What do you think the U.S. would do if Britain started arresting its citizens without charges other than "suspected of being a terrorist"?

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    Portuguese Rebel's Avatar Civitate
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    If I was in the same situation as the guy, I would have done the same thing... I would have stayed real quite when they spoke to me, answer what they wanted to hear, and then leave. There have been cases of people being arrested in the U.S. without due process of law after they are suspected of being a terrorist, so if you so much as go against their will, you could be jailed without a credible charge and without being able to express your freedoms until they release you days or months later.
    Yep... that is why i added that "and in a free country i was in my right to do it". I could never live in such a fascist police state where this can happen to people.

    Lets not be so fast with the Sieg Heil stuff either.
    Given the above why not? People arrested without motive, without a court order, being held for months without charge... "The Land of Freedom" my behind... I swear i'm going to puke the next time i hear that.


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    Count of Montesano's Avatar Civitate
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    This kind of thing is real because we've had a similar thing happen in the area I live in. There's a bit of a nut who likes to run around with "Behead Bush" signs and also a bumper sticker that says, "if we can't vote at the polls, vote from the rooftops" with a sniper rifle beneath. The FBI and Secret Service have also warned this guy against making death threats, even implied ones, against the president.

    But the Secret Service has been highly sensitive to any perceived threat for quite sometime. When I was in the Army under President Clinton, the president was going to visit our base. One of the young privates in a fight of drunken anger, said he'd like to give Clinton a fist to his face. Somebody reported it, the secret service grilled the guy about making threats when the president was about to visit, and the kid almost got courtmartialed for shooting his mouth off at the wrong time.

    While I support freedom of speech, there comes a point when you get into the yelling fire in a crowded theater argument. Speech is a qualified freedom, and trying to incite violence or anarchy is not covered under the Constitution.

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    Sorry, can I just go and check my calendar? I thought history had advanced past the witch hunts, even in America.

    Given the above why not? People arrested without motive, without a court order, being held for months without charge... "The Land of Freedom" my behind... I swear i'm going to puke the next time i hear that.
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    he thinks there is a conspiracy against blacks in the world especially by Europeans to keep Africa impoverished and unable to succeed.
    There is. Otherwise the 'western world' will have nowhere to get cheap resources.
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