Diplomatic relations

**Qarama** · April 16, 2007, 05:57 PM

what will be the diplomatic relations of each Civ?

for example Armenia and KoJ should be allies at the beginning.
great Seljuqs and Egyptians at war.
etc...

**~~Miraj~~** · April 16, 2007, 09:30 PM

Not sure yet what the "start" position of each faction will be. I'd rather start them off neutral or allied and let the diplomacy AI "guide" them to warring with the historically correct adversary.

**CtrlAltDe1337** · April 16, 2007, 11:12 PM

If I were you, I would atleast make the faction standings between historic allies very good. Vanilla already does this for factions like France and Scotland and I think its a good idea.

**IrAr** · April 17, 2007, 12:10 AM

The Latins and Armenians had a rocky relationship. At best, the Latins nearly forgot these people giving them water, food and guides to show them the better paths were "So schismatic, the Easterners (Greeks) couldn't control them". That is not a direct quote by the way, that is a summary of the Western Mindset.

Latin and Armenian relationships went downhill when the Latins realised they had been tricked (after at least two centuries) by the Armenian Kings. The Armenians' subtle hinting at joining Catholicism was merely a diplomatic tool and coupled with the fight over Antioch, Crusader and Armenian relationships did turn downhill.

Still, France and England did still look favourably upon the Armenians, but all for naught. They would not cease the Hundred Year's War to aid Kilikia and gave Levon VI only their "blessing" despite him being of Frankish blood! He was a Lusignan (although one of the few that actually tried to better the kingdom).

The Armenians and Mongols also had a good relationship, but that ended with Timur.

**~~Miraj~~** · April 17, 2007, 10:53 AM

Well lets make this the diplomacy discussion thread.

So far I've gleaned this:

Armenians: Will not be immune from warfare with Byz and KoJ.
Georgians: Generally better relations with Byz due to Seljuk threat. Bad relations with Seljuks.

Here's stuff I think it true:

KoJ and Egypt will start of either at war or "abysmal" relations.
Ghorids will be a vassal state of Ghazni and will start of with okay relations.
Ghorids will start off with abysmal relations with the Rajputs.
Seljuks will have bad relations with Abbasids, Georgians, Khwarezm and Ghazni.

**CtrlAltDe1337** · April 17, 2007, 12:31 PM

I don't think the Armenians should be immune from warfare with the Roman Empire and KoJ, but they should go to war much less often and start with very good relations. I agree with making the KoJ and Egyptians at war from that start. You might could do the same thing with the Roman Empire and the Seljuks. The rest sounds good.

**Tadzreuli** · April 17, 2007, 12:45 PM

Georgians: Generally better relations with Byz due to Seljuk threat. Bad relations with Seljuks.

I agree... and also Georgian had good relations with KoJ, Cilician Armenia and Roman pope !

**IrAr** · April 17, 2007, 07:42 PM

Byzantium and Cilicia had a rocky at best relationship. In fact, Cilicia was started with a revolution against the skeleton of Byzantine troops in Cilicia, who were easily disposed of, though most joined Roupen as they were generally Armenians.

Tadzreuli is right. Georgia and Armenia truly were the Last Christian bastions in the east.

**AlphaDelta** · April 17, 2007, 07:57 PM

It would be nice if we could script the campaign so that when the Mongols arrive the Seljuks and Byzantine relations get better and possibly form an alliance.

**Ahiga** · April 17, 2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaDelta

It would be nice if we could script the campaign so that when the Mongols arrive the Seljuks and Byzantine relations get better and possibly form an alliance.

It might be possible. It seems possible, just scripting to have the relationships artifically jump up. We could have the relationship between Mongol, KoJ and Armenia also leap up, given they allied with them against the Mamelukes.

**~~Miraj~~** · April 17, 2007, 08:04 PM

It would be nice if we could script the campaign so that when the Mongols arrive the Seljuks and Byzantine relations get better and possibly form an alliance.

Good point. I will have to investigate that. I don't think diplomacy stances can be "scripted" I think it more to do with the diplomacy AI coding itself. If I can include a condition in the diplomacy code that is based on "events" then it could easily be done. I will get heavy into all this after the 25th.

**CelticPagan** · April 17, 2007, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by mirage41

Good point. I will have to investigate that. I don't think diplomacy stances can be "scripted" I think it more to do with the diplomacy AI coding itself. If I can include a condition in the diplomacy code that is based on "events" then it could easily be done. I will get heavy into all this after the 25th.

I may be mistaken, but I believe either Repman or Darth was able to do this in their Mods (maybe both did). Then again, I could be wrong...to hear my wife tell it I usually am