pikemen fix
iīve been trying some variations of the pikemen fix (removing their secondary weapons) to try to make them use only their pikes, but without being overpowered (they are invincible if you just remove their swords). i think iīve found some promising things, but maybe some experienced modders could turn them into a real fix.
The only mods iīve played until now are LTC and SS, so i thought iīd leave here what iīve found, just in case king kong (great mod 3.0, btw) or any other modder wants to mess with pikemen. Iīve written 3 post in the official forums, and, as itīs a lot of writing, i thought iīd just copy them and paste them here, but i can already say that iīve made quite good progress in making spearwall what was in RTW
Post 1-> the first tests
First of all, English is not my native language, so sorry for any spelling / grammar errors.
I like pikemen, or at least iīd like the if worked as intended. In 1.2 leaked patch, they perform slightly better than before, but itīs still only some seconds before they leave their pikes and fight with swords (some people say they work OK on 1.2, iīd love to know how, but wathever).
So, I used the well known pikemen fix, that is, removing their secondary weapon. Now, pikemen are monsters that defeat anything, even when flanked or attacked from behind. Then , knowing than in MTW2 the combat stats are not the only thing that counts, why not reduce the att and def of the pikemen until they have a reasonable strenght, even without their secondary weapon?
Here are some test iīve made. I didnīt feel like unpacking, so i used the newest lands to conquer mod (for 1.2 leaked) as base
i took the spanish tecio, and gave them 0 defense (itīs extreme, but pikes are good enough defense for them) and 4 attack (itīs not like they are wielding heavy weapons, they are more defensive soldiers, and they would own in the long battles, that is, when these pikemen are involved). All the test on grassy plains, 4 vs 4 units
The results:
From the front:
Highlanders and anything below that: They get slaughtered without mercy, specially with guard mode off after the first charge
VHI, 2-Handers: They lose, but they inflict heavy casualties, howevever itīs a very long battle, the pikemen mostly contain them , with some kills now and then. I donīt mind it, pikemen are supossed to be defensive units anyway
Elite infantry (DFK, broken lances, conquistadores): itīs a long battle again, but some soldiers get past the pikes sometimes, and they get quite a few killings before dying or falling back.Win for the atackers, with maybe 25% casualties. Good results IMO.
Cavalry: They lose, and clearly. Its not like they get slaughtered in the first charge, but they lose many soldiers in it, and many more in melee. Even when charging-retreating-charging, they donīt have a chance
Missile / gunpowder: It hurts. A lot, Casuaties even with low level archers, really massacrated by elite. Add the spearwall slow speed, and you have the counter for them besides heavy shield infantry.
From behind/ flanks:
Anything below highlanders: They will lose, even when ataccking from behind. However, they are more likely to rout than to die, so high morale weak units (like militia spearmen with higher morale than they have) may do better, still needs testing
Highlanders and above: A massacre, even with their high morale, tercios fell like flies, specially against the most powerful units. They still take some time (not much), but itīs a clear win with very very few casualties
Cavalry: the lighter cavalry has some problems, but heavy and medium cavalry wins very easyly, specially when retreating- charging...
missile/ gunpowder: Didnīt test, no shield, donīt think pikes will stop bullets, so i suppose it canīt be worse than attacking from the front
This changes make tercios a powerful defensive pike unit, that still can delever some punishment, but are not overpowered as pikemen without secondary weapons are. Thereīs still a lot of room for tweaking, like delay between atacks, mass,little changes in att/def (however even poor stats, like 8/6 will make the overpowered, i thin 0-4 is a better range),morale (very important) etc, so different quality pikemen can be made. I found this version very nice, still need tweaking but it brings back the phalanx we all love without making them invincible and boring. Now that cavalry even tries to flank spearwalls, ther may be even great pikemen battles.
I leave here my two cents, just in case modders want to use some of this (iīd really like to see this kind of pikemen in dome of the modes i use, like Stainless steel (i want 3.0 aarrrghh) and LTC (i used the mod as base, remember that when i talk about 2 handers, etc)).
Really tired and with the keyboard on fire, thanks for your time
The second post-> problems
some more test. It seems that , when guard mode is off and atacked from the front, the pikemen are just too powerful, and fighting with elite HI, like armored swordmen, they will even win sometimes, inflicting heavy casualties when losing, and holdind their ground more time than expected. That is not good
However, they lose when atacking from the flanks, or when units with wider formation encircle them, so atacking them with wide lines, or with two units at the same time defeats them easier. Iīm messing with negative evading defense value, giving them something like "vulnerable to melee... if you get to them", but still not sure if itīs working, it shows like 0, not sure if it affects the real defense used in combat. I could use them in patch 1.1 and give the a shield , theyīd have negative armor then.
Anyways, it seems that they are very strong from the front, and weaker when encircled or engaged from 2 sides, even from frontright and frontleft, and that is somehing the AI should understand when atacking pikemen, and that is good.
It seems thereīs something useable about this fix, still working on it.
The third and fourth posts: Solutions and wishes
well, it looks better now, it seems that making the delay between atacks higher give the unit atacking the pikemen some time to sneak through the pikes and get some kills, seems a good way to control the effectiveness of pikes, so high qualit and bad quality pikemen are possible while using just pikes and no swords, just like in RTW
i tested 4 modified tercios against 4 armored swordmen, and even when not encircling the pikemen, more delay between atacks for tercios made it seasier for swordsmen
itīs far from perfect, but iīd really like that some experienced modder looked at the idea and say if it can be used. It would improve gameplay greatly in the latest eras, when you get elite pikemen (at least for me)
At the moment pikemen are either crappy light infantry or heavy infantry that can stop a cavalry charge, not really pikemen
Sorry for the long post, and i hope it helps
PS: Itīs not like if anybody could "apropiate" any fix to the game, but anyway, if it turns to be a good fix for pikemen, feel free to use this or any version derived of this on any mod, with or without credit, i just want my old phalanx... errr.... spearwall back
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