Merchant Mystery!

[Siculus]

MTW II with DlV. I have no--zero--merchants. Haven't had one since the start--HRE. But suddenly I'm earning around 19 to 25 florins a turn for "merchant trade."

Anyone explain this? Corrupt foreign merchant kickbacks?

Siculus

[repman]

Maybe an enemy renegade

repman

[Arkayne]

I have the same problem Siculus reported. Playing version 2.2 with the mini patch on M/VH as Spain. Year was 1211 and I had 6 merchants making decent trade, all of them 2 stars or better. Then, 1212, I move my capital to Toledo as I have taken all Spain from Moors and want to secure the south. The next time I look at my merchants on 1216, NONE of them are making more than 10 to 24 florins per resource node. I can understand one or two merchants "turning renegade" but all of them? And they are all displaying mostly positive traits and are still 2 stars or better (3 of them have 5 stars/coins). So, is this a bug or a hidden script event that makes your merchants siphon off money to a rival faction. If this a script, anyone have any clues how I can "turn" my merchants back short of sending them on suicide acquisitions? And if this is a script, how can it affect ALL of my merchants at the same time; pretty unbalanced if that is so.

Other than that, great mod Repman. You really shined with BBW for RTW which I still play to this date.

Cheers.

[Mithiras]

I've been playing with Danes, I haven't moved my captiol yet but I haven't gotten this to happen to me, I have two 3 star merchants in egypt right now raking in about 150 florins a piece, so it might just be your game. I'm also on VH/VH difficulty

[Arkayne]

Well, I actually think its a bug or related to a script error. I moved my capital back to Leon and now merchant trade values have returned to previous amounts per resource. Leon is not far from Toledo, so I don't think the distance from Toledo to the merchants I have on the map made too much difference (certainly not enough for them to drop to about 10 to 20 florins per resource node per turn).

[Kivals]

Well I've already report somewhere in the forum on this topic with my own close investigation of the merchant trade. The resource 'costs' for your faction are strictly dependent on what resources are in your capitol region - those resources (in capitol) are always the cheapest no matter what realy cost for other faction they have. When you move your capitol the resources on what you merchants stands change their status (they now no longer in the capital region) so their costs increase.... Well I'm pretty sure that some of your merchaants stand on the "initial" capital resources just check this and you got the idea... Anyway trading the resources which are available in your capitol region is always a very bad idea, as you are loosing the very appreciated florins....

[Arkayne]

Not sure you got my point Kivals. No, I don't trade resources in my capitol region. All of my trading, in this particular example, were in regions FAR AWAY from my capitol. What I said was ... I moved my capitol and then all of a sudden, ALL of my merchants are trading resources for their 0 level value (and my merchants were 2 to 5 rating). When I move my capitol back, they return to the normal trade amounts per resource. I think this must be a bug, because I am aware that trading values depend on the distance from your capitol but that a move from Leon to Toledo should not have reset my merchants to a 0 level trading value.

[Kivals]

Well Arkayne I think there is a misunderstood but not sure whether it is mine yours or both... I'll try my best with the following statment and example:
1 The distance from the capitol DOES NOT influence the cost, I'm pretty sure of it. Instead of it there is a simple check: if the resource is in your capitol region, than its value is highly reduced (to neglible at most).
2 Example: In your first capitol Toledo there are resources of wool and coal. I can imagine, that playing for spain you always consider them as worthless due their low cost. In Leon region there are iron (always most appreciated I suppose ) timber and also wool. Please check carefully which resource were traded by your merchants before you move capitol. If they were stood on the iron and timber resources (ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD even in Toledo or on the north pole ) - than there is no mysery or bug at all, as you can see, the cost of this resources droped dramatically due their place in your new capitol region Toledo (They surely do not move but the capitol moves itself). The wool price is not changed (it is in both regions) but I think if you check out the coal now - you would be surprised - its price are no much higher (it is no longer in your capitol....)
3 My own example: I used to play for the russians or england - so for russians the cost of furs (which is no doubt one of the middle cost resource in the game) are significantly lower, than playing for England and when i'm playing for England this works for wool instead of furs...

BTW: Are your from Spain?

I hope I'm clear enough and you catch the point.... Just check this out
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77755

[Arkayne]

Thank you Kivals, I understand your post with crystal clarity and understand that I was wrong in my assumption that trade values increased from the distance from your capitol. However, I still believe there is a bug (or some problem with what I am experiencing).

Allow me to give a very specific example. I am playing Spain. I have a trade agreement with Hungary (Magyars) and have a trader (who is has 5 stars/coins) in Hungarian territory (one near Buda) trading silver. In 1211 he is making 540 florins per turn. I don't own silver myself anywhere in Spanish territory. Now, on 1212, I move my capitol from Leon to Toledo. All of a sudden, my merchant trading silver in Hungary is making 24 florins per turn. In fact, he and all of my merchants everywhere scattered across Europe, North Africa and the Middle East are now trading as if they were 0 level no matter what resource they were trading. I click through 15 turns to see if trade eventually returns to normal and it does not.

Since my original post I have tried an experiment by playing as the Byzantines, England and France. Anytime I move my capitol, all of my trade everywhere on the map is reduced to 0 level and stays that way permanently (well at least for 15 to 20 turns before I get frustrated and reload a previously saved game).

Anyone other than Siculus ever experience this? If so, please let me know if you were able to correct it and how. Again, I am playing DLV 2.2 with the 1.2 unofficial patch and the mini patch posted by Repman.

P.S. I am not from Spain. I just like playing Spain in MTW2.

[Darkmoor]

trade doesnt quite work that way and this is probably just a new version of the old original bug:

The value of a resource is related to the distance from the capital to the closest example of that type of material.

e.gmade up figures just for example purposes)

Capital is London - the closest resource of Amber is in Scandinavia and is worth 250fl

You now move your capital to Scandinavia: now the closest resource of that type is right next door and therefore the trade resource value is lower

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Alternative example:

Capital is Venice - you have a merchant on the gold in Timbuktu who only nets about 300 fl
But if you move your capital to london all of a sudden income shoots up to 1200. Why does this happen when the distance from the Timbuktu gold to each of the capitals is almost the same?

Answer: London has no close gold resource. However Venice has a gold resource nearby: because it has a closer example of that type of resource the value of the resource anywhere else on the map is lower.

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The original bug in 1.0 was that merchants did not realise their true trade income because the game did not take into account the distance modifier after a save, reload etc etc. Only by moving your capital to another town, and then moving it back, would the game recognise the correct trade value.

This was fixed in 1.1 but this sounds like a variation on that theme.


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hope that helps