Population order issues

**Beiss** · April 03, 2007, 08:04 AM

Hello

Been playing LTC for a while now, liking it a lot. I have a little problem though. I don't know if this happens in vanilla too, but if it does, you should try changing it.

I have sent 8 spies to London, which is garrisoned by 1 English (enemy) general and 1 unit of levy spearmen. The spies' subterfuge ratings are 5, 6, 10, 5, 9, 9, 6, 3. The chance of them opening the gates if I attack is 180%. The population order is 90%. <- Wtf? How could this city NOT completely rebel? Sometimes I've noticed it go down to 65% or so, but then it comes immediately back up the next turn. There's nothing special about the general in the city - he even has a trait that gives the settlement -1 law, and even with these 8 spies of mine the settlement won't rebel. In another campaign, I'm constantly having problems with my settlements because enemy spies infiltrate me and give me 60% unrest or so - alone - spies with a subterfuge rating of 2 or 3. Why does it work for them but not for me? Is it impossible to make enemy settlements rebel, and if so, do you intend to change that? It feels very unfair, and it's really frustrating when you see how well it works for the enemy.

Also, I'm having problems with religious unrest. There's a big nice church in town, the town is 100% catholic, I have a good papal standing and still I'm getting 25% religious unrest in it. What the hell do they want from me? How do you get rid of religious unrest?

**Lusted** · April 03, 2007, 08:16 AM

Well what difficulty level you playing on? As i believe on VH the ai gets bonuses to public order, and i've also increased the effect of religious unrest in my mod and i believe there is a set amount for all settlements so that it can never go below a certain level, though im not sure.

**Beiss** · April 03, 2007, 11:55 AM

I'm playing on medium. Even if the AI gets bonuses, did you really intend it to be impossible to make an enemy settlement rebel? And on medium difficulty?

I think I've seen settlements that don't have religious unrest at all. But I don't understand why a settlement with a completely homogenous population, religiously speaking, would suffer from religious unrest, and 25% of it? Why add a disorder factor that there's nothing you can do anything about? Is my church too small? I can't build a bigger one, not until the population in it grows big enough to allow me to upgrade my city to the next level in the tech tree.

At medium difficulty, the odds should be pretty even, I think (although the AI players might need some handicap to compensate for their stupidity). It's not fair that the AI players can use spies to cause riots in my settlements when I can't do the same thing to them. Boosting their public order is fine, but setting it to a minimum, like it seems you're doing, is kinda wrong. Would I be able to make them riot if I had 9 spies, all with a subterfuge rating of 10, instead of 8 spies, with an average of 7? Using spies to cause disorder in enemy settlements is a rather integral part of the game, and even the AI does it - to me. How can I reduce this public order boost they're getting? What files need to be edited and how?

**chewy** · April 03, 2007, 12:12 PM

A govener MUST have 5 piety or higher to have 0 unreligious unrest, otherwise the city will have unrest.

Regarding the spies from what i can tell only either top spy cuases unrest or the first spy causes unrest. Just go sabotage his buidlings and it'll be easy enough to make them rebel.

**Beiss** · April 03, 2007, 01:30 PM

Actually, no, I've tried destroying every single building (that give public order bonuses, except the churches) and they still don't rebel.

You're saying spies don't get cumulative unrest bonuses? Didn't know that. Well, either way, the AI players get much better results than I, even when using really crappy spies.

Didn't know about the piety limit though. Could explain some things.

**chewy** · April 03, 2007, 06:56 PM

go convert thier population, kill the churches first then move in on council chambers then the inn. Throw in a good spy and kill the govoner That should be roughly -150% order on a medium to large city.