FACTION: The Rajput States

[drowsiman555]

indian_boy,
you mentioned in the delhi thread about representation of nature on cloth. im not sure i quite understand this. this is disrespectful? or anti-religious? or it just didnt happen? the reason i ask is because, correct me if im wrong, but wasnt the ficus tree sacred to the indian warrior class? now that doesnt mean they put it on everything, but what does it mean, or how was it sacred? is there anyway that may be used as something? and i do agree with the sun stuff as well, im just trying to get some clarification here.

[PartyElite]

ah no u misunderstood me. u see, _muslims_ (as far as i know), have been forbidden by the Qu'uran to recreate what 'god' has made. So u won't find any animals/plants decorated on their walls and stuff. Instead, they decorated with calligraphy and geometric shapes (arabesque mainly). So, on an international "level," they go completely against idol worship etc. (eg. even christians have idol worship, hindus _do_ have idol worship... probabaly the most of it lol and im not too sure about other religions). Now all those muslims/"ppl who know" out there: if i'm wrong, please do correct me... this knowledge is as far as i know. (wtever that means)

as for the fiscus tree... that's the fig tree yes? well in that case, im not entirely sure, but it is regarded as the Tree of Fertility. Possibly that links with the thought of it depicting "manlihood?" not sure about that.... but if it is (i'll have to check up) then it could possibly a symbol for something.

oh, and on the note of depicting manlihood: all moustaches need to point/curl upwards. I just learned from my dad how 'important' this was/is for the Rajputs!

cheers... i hope i cleared it up for u?
- indian_boy

[drowsiman555]

ooo ok, got it. you were referring to islam, not hindi. yeah, the ficus is a fig. i know it has some importance to many asian cultures, and as i was searching for symbols, banners, and pictures of soldiers, i found it mentioned a number of times with the Kshatriya class. a few places talked about a "coming of age" ritual involving it, which would support the masculinity theory i guess. i dont think any of these specified the rajputs, but, again correct me if im wrong, the rajputs consisted of several "tribes", so it may have been a part of their culture. i was just confused with the whole islam/hindi thing. i honesly only know the basics of islam, and even less of hindi. thanks for the clarification.

forgive me, i forgot between hindi and hindu which is the language and the religion.

[iudas]

Hindi is the language and Hindu is the religion.

[PartyElite]

lol, its cool man!
hindu is the religion, and hindi is the language.

glad i cleared stuff up. And yes, ur right about the Rajput States, they were actually at war with each other most of the time!
and hey, i'll check into the tree thingy.... im a brahman, not a kshatriya, so in a way, i have very little knowledge about them. oh and no, i don't "believe in" or like the caste system, but what to do about it...... "our culture" is this

i like the fiscus thing..... will check that out... its amazing how ur teaching me stuff about my own country !

cheers
- indian_boy

edit: SirPaladin beat me to it! !

[drowsiman555]

while trying to find out more about the tree i came across this sight...i think its kinda interesting. is the mewar region on the campaign map? would the state of mewar be included in the rajput states? cause this has their liniege, coat of arms, history and such. if they are part of the rajput states, i have seen several pics of mewar warriors. i can go find them again if someone wants. perhaps as regional units or something, i dont know.

http://www.mewarindia.com/

[drowsiman555]

ok i found some more on the tree. its all symbolic and difficult to understand, but this is how ive interpreted it. it seems that each class has a different soma (i guess a religious drink originating from an ancient hallucinogenic drink of the gods) made of different ingredients. im not sure as to the occasions it is drank, but the warrior class drink is made from a certain type of banyan fig sap, because the banyan tree is the Kshatriya of plants because its many roots make it strong, and they drink it while sitting on a chair made of the wood of the tree covered by a tiger skin? the tiger is the Kshatriya of animals because its the largest pretetor in the area. i may not be completely correct with what the drink is and all, but i guess the tree and the tiger would be good for banners or somthing.

[Miraj]

IndianBoy,

I'm under the assumption you live in India, right? Which makes me realize that you are probably near libraries and such filled with historical books on the Rajputs (and Delhi). I was thinking that if you ever get the chance maybe you could grab some illustrated books and scan a few pages for references. I would like some Indian references illustrating possible Rajput units. Thats if you have the time of course, if not thats cool.

[drowsiman555]

mirage41,
what of the mewars?
i found some pics, but didnt post them cause i wasnt sure

[Jush]

Hey, new to this thread, but I'm really glad you guys are making this mod. I stumbled across this site years ago, and found it again. It has loads of really good black & white photos and drawings of indian weapons (all regions). Hope its some use to the modeler.

Here ya go: http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/indianarms.htm

[PartyElite]

@drowsiman: yep the mewars were one of the Rajputanas. So they could be used as a source for what u've mentioned. good find man!
could u send me the link to where u found out that stuff about the tree? u say u interperted it, so i'll look through and try to interpret it too (as can other ppl) we'll c what sounds most correct. It seems that u make complete sense though, and yes the tiger is one of the most respected beasts in india, more so than the lions.... so they could be used on banners. (but r u sure it wasnt the tigress?)

@mirage41: Libraries here have become "trash" lol. They contain 3 copies of the 6 "harry potters" and the 2 "eragons" but if u find something that u can _read_ about the indian history (apart from gandhi and colonial rule) ur lucky! But i'll c if i can find a good library somewhere nearby. however, i do have a book from which many of the Sultanat facts i PMmed u and some of the Rajput stuff is from. Apart from that, we're (my family + i) are planning a visit to the National Museum as soon as my dad's free. I don't know if i can take my camera in, but i'll take a sketchbook and a notepad and soak in all the info i can from the "History of the Armed Forces" section ! no problems man.... i'll go library searching aswell!

@Jush - i actually have seen that site. I was busy compilnig all the images into one jpeg as some (most) of those pics can be ignored, but since u just posted that link.... i guess i'll stop now great find man... cool site isn't it?
---
i have a "warrior caste" friend who i'll ask about the fiscus tree over the phone (the phone's engaged right now).... him or his dad might be able to clear that up....

cheers
- indian_boy

[drowsiman555]

my use of the word interpreted may be misleading. basically i looked at several sites to try and understand the vocab and such. different places had slightly different meanings for words so i had to make a best judgment. after i figured out what i thought all the sites were talking about, i summarized a text off a google book search. you may be more familiar with some of the vocab and the culture, so the back up research probably wont be necessary. ill try to find that book again for you so you can read it. are you registered or whatever with google? i beleive you need to be in order to access the book search, so a link to it wont do you any good if not. if your not, its copywriten text so i cant just copy and paste it, id have to retype it. let me know so i know how to provide this for you. in the mean time ill try to find it.

[drowsiman555]

i found that book indian_boy
i was right about not being able to copy and paste it but heres the link to the book. if your registered, great. if not, it really only takes a second to do. its on page 309.

http://books.google.com/books?vid=0d...triya+fig+soma

[drowsiman555]

i apologize, thats the wrong link, though that is one that i looked at.
this was the one i was referring. now that im looking at it again, im a little off on what i said. dub grass would be the kshatriya of plants.

http://books.google.com/books?vid=IS...tnKo#PPA100,M1

[NaptownKnight]

I've got a question, will the Rajput States religion be buhdist?

[drowsiman555]

well here are links to some of the mewar i mentioned earlier. the first 3 are mewars, the 4th is of shivaji, who was a little later then this mod is supposed to go to i think, but it still gives a good look at an indian army.

http://images.exoticindiaart.com/hin...rrior_hf68.jpg

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/images/mewar_warrior1.jpg

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/images/mewar_warrior2.jpg

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/images/s...tha_power2.jpg


naptownknight,
historically the rajputs were hindu. as to what they will be in this mod im not sure. the religions were being discussed in one of the other threads, not sure which one. it was a matter of a religion limit, and so the rajputs may have had to be pagan in order to fit the rest. im not sure what the final say on that was or if there is one yet. but to answer your question, no, they wont be buhdist.

[Miraj]

There will definitely be a "Hindu" religion. Its will be quite easy to implement. I expect Rajputs to have hindu priests too. Except denouncing heretics and such seems a bit un hindu-like. We'll have to work our way around that.

[drowsiman555]

Rajput Armies

Predominantly consisted of cavalry. They bred high quality horses, such as Marwari and Kathiawari. Rajputs fought with cocked wrist and rarely used the tip of the sword to inflict a wound. Sirohi sword was very well liked by rajput. Padmanabh, in his Kanhadade-Prabandh, describes Rajput warriors:

They bathed the horses in the sacred water of Ganga. Then they offered them Kamal Puja. On their backs they put with sandal the impressions of their hands... They put over them five types of armour, namely, war armour, saddles acting as armour, armour in the form of plates, steel armour, and armour woven out of cotton. Now what was the type of Kshatriyas who rode these horses? Those, who were above twenty-five and less than fifty in age,... shot arrows with speed and were the most heroic. (Their) moustaches went up to their ears, and beards reached the navel. They were liberal and warlike. Their thoughts were good ... They regarded wives of others as their sisters. They stood firm in battle, and struck after first challenging the enemy. They died after having killed first. They donned and used (all the) sixty-six weapons. If any one (of the enemy ranks) fell down they regarded the fallen person as a corpse and saluted it.

from:


http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Raj...sions_of_India

lots of info on lots of stuff here

[PartyElite]

its good to know they will be represented as hindus
but don't worry, i can find some "flaws" in hinduism which will be the equivalent of denouncing heretics etc.

@drowsiman: u seem to be amazingly interested in the culture! me = proud !
yeah, the horses were a very amazingly respected creature (thats not proper english i know).
as for the swords, there is another that every Rajput carried, called the khanda? not sure, need to check....... levy troops could carry that i guess. the moustaches is right, but the beards..... well, they never _really_ went down to navals... they were just never cut. Sometimes beards were the funky types which don't grow on the chin, but grow on the laws and merge with the moustache. funky!
oh... and there was always respect for other warriors, and honour was of utmost importance. They would rather die than be dishonoured (as i've been saying so many times).

cheers
-indian_boy

[drowsiman555]

i think that just was someones description of them from the time period, so its more than likely that it was exaggerated. i mean, the mongols, huns, turks, the roman's barbarians, pretty much every "foreign", "exotic", or less understood culture has been exaggerated, i think for the purpose of making it clear how different they are from what is familiar. i thought it was good to have a historical discription of the army. use it or not, what ever helps the mod. im just trying to provide info. better to have too much and not use every detail than to not have enough and assume the whole way i think.