FACTION: The Kypchak Confederacy

[CelticPagan]

Hope the Medical tests went well celtic. :original:

Me too . I'll hear Monday or Tuesday, but so far the Dr says it shouldn't be anything to worry over (so naturally I am ).

We're starting on the KoJ now. Should get an update on their first mesh (The sergeants) soon.

Ahh, adding the cool capes, I hope?

Oh, BTW...what does

O.O

mean in regard to my last message? I know it was a bit long

[Ahiga]

O.o Meant at the detail of information. Mirage asked me about pagan religions, I pretty much said 'Lol, they were all different based on region. Except that the steppe guys seem to have had a proto-monotheistic 'sky god'.' And then I click on the topic and you've posted above and beyond the info Mirage was setting out to have.

It's meant to say the detail on the research was very good.

I haven't thought about the capes since I wrote the writeup prior to their inclusion, but definately they should find a way in. I believe that there was a whole color mantle system for the Order - sergeants wore a certain color and brown, knights wore black or white.

So they'll definitely be added in somewhere.

[CelticPagan]

Bah, now I know you are just trying o make me feel good .

[Ahiga]

Bah, now I know you are just trying o make me feel good .

Check your rep. I gave you some for that post, I think. I included my name too!

That being said, if anyone has any art of mail clad sergeants in Outremer or Europe, be sure to post it in the KoJ topic, as I'm going mostly on information for them so far, not art (Info says they used mail but not as much as the knights. From none on the legs or arms, to no mail mittens or 'socks').

[Sinan]

Yeah I hope it's nothing serious and wish you well Pagan.

[The Mongol]

Yeesh, I'm playing these guys just for the russo-viking dudes.

[Sinan]

When I see the infantry I can only think of running them down after a hail of arrows from mounted bows.

"If you ain't cav you ain't .... !!!"

[teh.frickin.pope]

Good Luck CelticPagan.

We thought about it, and that is a good thought, but their nobles will get axes, and well, the kypchaks are too strong in everything to not have some sort of weakness.
That's not how it will be with the Kypchaks, their HA will play a pivotal part, but it did show me that they will not be the flighty steppe army of stereotype.

Is it just the foot nobles with axes? I haven't seen pics of the noble cavalry sidearms.

It looks like with these slavic mail armored spearmen they will have an ability to hold the line well if needed(a nomad army that can defend it's cities well ). Perhaps the slavs should be heavily hindered by AOR(as it seems hardly anything else in their roster will be).

[Miraj]

Yep Mr. Pope, the slavs will be kept to the north. So the Kyps wont get to recruit Russian in the middle of Iraq

[Ahiga]

Yep Mr. Pope, the slavs will be kept to the north. So the Kyps wont get to recruit Russian in the middle of Iraq

Indeed. That's the one problem I have with renaming the current nobles into Slavic Druzhina. It would make it so you can recruit only their turkomans, their kypchak nomads, and their highest tier cavalry elsewhere, and the Druzhina (Current nobles) only in Russia, maybe the caucasus too. That also means they'd lose their foot noble axemen/bowmen...and that could be cool, making it so while they have an AOR anywhere there's pasture, it's only their nomads, turkomans, and their tier 5 cavalry, but it also means they lack any sort of heavy foot outside of the steppe area (Though maybe we can make the Slavs recruitable in asia minor and the caucasus, representing the slavs who took boats down from the rivers and reached this area).

It's worth mulling over - whether we want the nobles to be renamed Druzhina, but kept to a smaller area (Caucasus/Steppe)

[teh.frickin.pope]

It turns out that Khan(or qan) was their word for emperor, so Qan's Guard would be appropriate for the highest tier cavalry. As for the Tier 4, you could call them Bey Cavalry/Archers as Bey was their word for high ranking nobles.

Political Titles, Offices and Related Terms (CC, 90/104-105) : qan "emperor," soltan (Arab.) "king," beg "prince," bey "baron (amir)," ceribasi "army leader," elci "envoy," yarguci "judge ( potestas, sana Arab. sahna "prefect"), seriyat (( Arab. sar`iyyah "Islamic law") "judge" (consul, qadi), bogavul/bogawul "servant of the court, Gerichtsdiener" (placerius, tatawul) Mong. buqawul (see below), atlu kisi "mounted soldier," qan qatuni "empress," evdegi/ewdegi epci "female servant," tilmac "translator," etc.

http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carr...oy-2/cam2.html

[Hansa]

The Cumans look magnificent. I see that you guys have taken some freedoms regarding all the Rus and slavic units in their rooster, something poaaibly not to accurate regarding a Turcic steppe people. Perhaps you should consider only making them recruitable in the provinces at the northeastern corner of the map or something similar, to add a bit more realism.

Anyways, the units are a work of art

[Miraj]

Thats exactly what we're doing They will be only available around the western portion of the steppe, the area around Kiev and Ryazan.

We might even make the Slavic units available to other factions that conquer that region, like the Byz.

Its just that the Kypchaks ruled over a very large region so there is no reason for us to not believe that after conquering those parts north of Bulgaria many slavs served as auxillia and such.

[CelticPagan]

Thats exactly what we're doing They will be only available around the western portion of the steppe, the area around Kiev and Ryazan.

We might even make the Slavic units available to other factions that conquer that region, like the Byz.

Its just that the Kypchaks ruled over a very large region so there is no reason for us to not believe that after conquering those parts north of Bulgaria many slavs served as auxillia and such.

Actually that is exactly what happened. Acorrding to my research, the Kypchaks raided into Russian territories during the 11th Century, going so far as sacking Kiev, and by the 12th Century controled pretty much all the Russian Steeps. Whtat little they didn't were under the control of other Turkic tribes, like the Kazakhs, Oguz, and the Kirgiz.

As a result, they simply conscripted into service many of the local, sedintary town dwellers. This was a typical Steeps tribe tactic.

The Magyars used it as well when they invaded Hungary for the rich grasslands there, much as the Avar did following the decline of the Huns. Note: The Magyars, while Steep dwellers, were of the same ethnic & linguistic group as the Finns, and not Turkic or Mongolian.

[Eraser]

[quote=mirage41;1815222]
We might even make the Slavic units available to other factions that conquer that region, like the Byz.[quote]

Yes! Brilliant idea! would make playing the byzantines far more interesting and give them some more new units that i think many people wish to see them have.

[Sinan]

Good idea.

[Ahiga]

Yes! Brilliant idea! would make playing the byzantines far more interesting and give them some more new units that i think many people wish to see them have.

Do you happen to know if they used less elite Varangians? The Slavic Warband could help fill that niche if so.

[Eraser]

From the little i know about the byzantine army during this period it seems they were far more dependent upon mercenaries and foreign auxiliaries so imagine slavic troops could be found amongst their ranks. Best to ask in the byzantine thread really for a more historically accurate answer methinks

[Tadzreuli]

I can beat late I do it, but I think it will be interesting:

this is Kypchak horsemen -

[Sinan]

Nice pic !

Does anyone know if these guys spoke Turkic (family) or Mongolian (family of) language/s ? Also if anyone has links to their alphabet, that would be great. BTW I know they were Turkic but I'm curious about language.

EDIT:

The Kipchak language (also spelled Qypchaq) is an extinct Turkic language of the Kipchak group.

The descendants of the Kipchak language include the majority of Turkic languages spoken in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus today, as Kipchak was used as a lingua franca in Golden Horde-ruled lands.

Kazakhs are remnants of Eastern Kipchak tribes who lived in Northern Kazakhstan in the 10th century, but migrated to Europe later. So, their language originates from a more isolated form of earlier Kipchak. Bolgar-speaking Volga Bulgarians (or Kazan Tatars), Astrakhan Tatars, Balkars, Bashkirs and Mongolian aristocracy adopted the Kipchak language in the days of the Golden Horde.

From wiki