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Thread: [OLD DEV THREAD] FACTION: The Eastern Roman Empire

  1. #21

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    You certainly may. In fact, we'd hope you do.

    I agree with you that it was fun to learn the language a little and refer to them in their native tongue back in the Ancient era of Rome Total war and it's mods. But I feel like now it's a bit more complicated. In RTR or EB you had the somewhat 'universal' greek, being found in many factions (In RTR, in almost all of those of the civilized world excluding the armenians and persians. In EB, not so much but still very signifigant), so that toxotes = bow or kontos = lance became reinforced.

    But in the medieval era, while greek and latin were international languages spoken by all sorts of people of faith and culture (Although greek is probably the dominant thing in the east, and latin in the west), it's not what dominates the military lexicon. The closest would be Arabic or Turkish, but as far as I know it was usually not all or nothing but rather a blending of the two. I know it deals with them, so I'll look it up, but in general, it'd be more difficult and more complicated to feature wholly native tongue units in Broken Crescent than it would be in an Ancient Era Mod.

    Someone coming in would have to end up recognizing Greek, Armenian, Georgian, Arab, Turkish, Mongolian, and French terms. While our Georgian and Armenian contributors have given us all the information we need on naming their units, and we can find someone to do the same for Byzantium, it'd be harder to do for the other factions.

    All in all, it would be nice, and I do hope that MTR and MA feature it. As for us, we are somewhat of a Realism-based, but not restricted mod, so unless the mighty Caliph Mirage (Blessings of God upon him...except on Friday the 25th. ) should happen to have a change of heart, or should happen to fall from the parapets of the Citadel...we'll probably stick with half ethnic and half anglicized.

    Perhaps what we can do is when it is applicable (For Byzantium, Armenia, Georgia, and if we have the information, the rest), is feature the ethnic name in the description, reversing what you suggest about having the anglicized name in the description. This way, we can educate without impeding.

    And what's always possible is for, with permission, one of our members or one of our fans to take the name file and replace the half-and-half names with fully ethnic names for those factions which we have the info for.

  2. #22

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Caliph Mirage (Blessings of God upon him...except on Friday the 25th. )


    Gah! What happens to him on the 25th? He turn into a pumpkin or something?
    Former Historian & Dev Member for Broken Crescent Mod
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  3. #23

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticPagan View Post

    Gah! What happens to him on the 25th? He turn into a pumpkin or something?
    or should happen to "fall" from the parapets of the Citadel

  4. #24
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    I really don't see any problem with the anglicizing of the names. Its not like we're really dumbing it down even. Why do words like "archer" or "swordsmen" need to be in greek or arabic or armenian anyways? They are generic adjectives that are perfectly fine as english. The front noun is all that needs to be in native tongue.. "Nakhrakhar Heavy Cavalry" and "Abna Heavy Spearmen" are simply fine in my books.

    Having been playing RTR, ROP and EB for so long, one thing that bothered me always was the linguistic overdose they did to the point of absurdity. For the first 10 minutes I thought the names were cool, but soon I suffered mental fatigue and was just refering to my different units as "that one" and "those agris-what-you-ma-call-its".


    Caliph Mirage? I like the sound of that
    ...thats of course until the mongols capture me, roll me up in a persian carpet and trample me to death.

  5. #25
    Ermeni's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41 View Post
    Caliph Mirage? I like the sound of that
    ...thats of course until the mongols capture me, roll me up in a persian carpet and trample me to death.
    of course this was made in respect.....the Mongols did never shed the blood of a holy man --- such as you

    Caliph Mirage?
    LOL


  6. #26
    deRougemont's Avatar Yeoman
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    For those doing the Byzantine character names list, this thread for the Byzantines may be of interest to you. Keep an eye on it, as we have almost completed a new list. But, I'd love to get input on the quality of the list from those are familiar with the Byzantines. Suggestions, etc., are very welcome.






  7. #27
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    This is first unfinished version - it will be constantly updated

    1175 - 1400
    Roman Empire
    Official name - ''Basileia tōn Rōmaiōn''

    faction logo

    -this is actually flag of komnenian emperors
    of course darker or cyan red

    Culture:
    Greek

    Religion:
    Christian

    Faction Colours:
    Primary colour: Porphyra-tyrian purple
    Secondary colour: White

    Family

    Emperor (Basileus) – Manuel I Komnenos, nicknamed Megas, a strong and mighty Emperor, born 1118, ruled 1143 - 1180
    Heir – Protosebastos on greek(Porphyrogenitos (born in the purple), after the name, ie. Alexios II Porphyrogenitos, or use Despotes) – born 1160(he has 6)

    MANUEL I = MARIA of Antioch
    |
    Alexios II

    Manuel is the reigning Emperor when the game starts, he has 57, he married second wife Maria of Antioch in 1161, she is much younger – 30. Also with first wife has one daughter Maria(23) - single

    All his brothers are dead before 1175.
    Manuel has also illegimate children, he recognized one of them
    Alexios Komnenos (born in the early 1160s), who was recognised as the emperor's son, and indeed received a title (sebastokrator) – he has 15

    GENERALS
    Andronikos Kontostephanos – rank megas doux, high admiral of the fleet
    Ioannes Doukas – he has 49 in 1175, rank sebastos

    Regions:
    Europa
    Constantinople - Konstantinoúpoli - city
    Kríti - Heraklion - city
    Crimea - Cherson - city

    Asia Minor:
    Opsikion? - Nicomedia - city
    Nicaea - Nicaea - fortress
    Thrakesion - Smyrna - fortress
    - Laodikeia - fortress
    Kibyrrhaioton - Attália - fortress(strong naval base)
    Paphlagonia - Sinope - fortress
    Cyprus - Lefkosia - city
    Rhodos - Rhodos - city
    Chaldia - Trapezoûs or Trapezoúnta - fortress


    Unit
    in progress

    Names
    Male names(some can be also surnames)

    Acindynus
    Agapetus
    Alyattes
    Amirrutzes
    Anastasius
    Anatolicus
    Anatolius
    Andronicus
    Anthemius
    Anthimus
    Arcadius
    Arsaphius
    Asbadus
    Asterius
    Babylas
    Bacauda
    Baduaruis
    Basiliakos
    Batzas
    Boethius
    Bryennius
    Butlilinus
    Calopodius
    Carellus
    Charegiselus
    Chilbudius
    Christophorus
    Chroniates
    Colluthus
    Comentas
    Comentiolus
    Cometas
    Comitiolus
    Constantine
    Corippus
    Cosmas
    Cresconius
    Cyricus
    Cyril
    Damianus
    Didymus
    Diosconis
    Domnitziolus
    Dorotheus
    Droserius
    Eudaemon
    Eudokimos
    Eudoxius
    Eulalius
    Eupatarius
    Euphemius
    Euphratas
    Euphronius
    Eusebius
    Eustathius
    Eustochius
    Eutychianus
    Eutychius
    Formosos
    Gabrielius
    Gennadius
    Georgius
    Gerontius
    Glycerius
    Gregoras
    Helladius
    Heraclius
    Hydatius
    Ignatius
    Ionnacius
    Ionnes
    Isaaces
    Isaacius
    Isidorus
    Leontius
    Laskaris
    Lecapenus
    Maruthus
    Megistus
    Meletius
    Melminius
    Menas
    Methodius
    Michaelius
    Narzeses
    Nicephorus
    Nicetas
    Nicetius
    Origen
    Pachymeres
    Palamas
    Pamphilus
    Pancratius
    Pantagathus
    Pardus
    Pelagius
    Perigenes
    Philagrius
    Philaretus
    Philippicus
    Phillippus
    Philoxenus
    Phoebammon
    Photinus
    Plutinus
    Senuthius
    Simocatta
    Sittas
    Stauracius
    Stilicho
    Strategius
    Syagrius
    Symeon
    Symeonius
    Tarchaniotes
    Theocharistus
    Theoctistus
    Theodoracius
    Theodore
    Theodoretus
    Theodoricus
    Theodorus
    Theogenius
    Theophilius
    Theophilus
    Theophylact
    Theophylactus
    Theotimus
    Trasaric
    Trasaricus
    Tzimisas
    Tzittas
    Vaanes
    Varazes
    Vasacius
    Zemarchus
    Zeno
    Zenobius


    Female names:
    Aetheria
    Alexandria
    Anna
    Antonina
    Antipatra
    Appa
    Athanasia
    Basilia
    Basilina
    Basina
    Byzantia
    Charito
    Chrysomalo
    Comito
    Cyra
    Damiane
    Destasia
    Didyma
    Domentzia
    Epiphania
    Erchantrudis
    Eudocia
    Eudoxia
    Eugenia
    Euphemia
    Euphrasia
    Eusebia
    Evantia
    Gabrielia
    Georgia
    Helena
    Hesychia
    Irene
    Ionna
    Ionnia
    Ionnina
    Leocadia
    Macedonia
    Marozia
    Megaris
    Megethia
    Nicasia
    Pasara
    Pateria
    Pericleia
    Theocharista
    Theodora
    Theodosia
    Theognosia
    Veneranda


    Surnames: (and some of male names above)
    Bryennius
    Cerularius
    Comnenus
    Dragases
    Ducas
    Laskaris
    Palaeologus
    Simocatta
    Tarchaniotes
    Tzimiakes
    Vatatzis
    Last edited by Manuel Komnenos; May 12, 2007 at 12:26 PM.
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

  8. #28
    IrAr's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Shouldn't it be a Tyrian purple as opposed to the purple for the Vanilla Byzantines?

  9. #29
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Edited.
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

  10. #30

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel Komnenos
    John Doukas – he has 49 in 1175, rank sebastos
    Doesn't look too good. Why use John and not the Greek version? Ioanes Doukas or something.

  11. #31

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Seeing as Byzantium won't be the focus of the first release i'd recommend you guys to look at the following thread for skins. In my opinion they are the best Byzantine skins i've seen so far and i think you should ask the creator if he'll allow you to use them upon release: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93544

  12. #32

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Hiya Dread,

    Currently we've arranged to use some of White Wolf's skins. Although people are preferring Disgruntled Goats, I've found that both (And I'm not simply being a fence sitter here) are very good. In particular, White Wolf's lamellar is very appealing (As was his previewed reskins of their leather and cloth). I like the leather and cloth of DG's a lot too.

    So it may be possible for us to talk to Disgruntled Goat, and see if we can't merge some of his skins with some of WW's. Maybe WW's for certain units, like the cataphract or the byzantine infantry, and Disgruntled Goat's for others, like Byzantine Lancers or spearmen. This way, we can achieve a greater diversity in the byzantines than if we use one or the other.

  13. #33

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    First of all I must say the violet colour is the most proper for Vasileia ton Romaiikon.The original roman red was changed into violet in the byzantine era and this was smth official.Of course a little darker than the one in M2TW .

    I had been to Mount Athos in Greece last year . (This is the monk republic autonomous from Greece established in the 8th century ,having 22 monasteries on a peninsula that has no land routes with the world) .I was surprised to see the flag of the republic is nowadays...the double -headed eagle on a yellow field.I think it must be the byzantine flag without change .Hmm I didn't notice does it have crown ?! Anyway I think we have still a part of the Byzantine Empire existing nowadays ...
    EUROPA SEMPER CAPUT MUNDI

  14. #34
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPaladin View Post
    Doesn't look too good. Why use John and not the Greek version? Ioanes Doukas or something.
    Yes, you have absolutely right, if it's something wrong, freely correct me.

    Quote Originally Posted by felicissimus View Post
    First of all I must say the violet colour is the most proper for Vasileia ton Romaiikon.The original roman red was changed into violet in the byzantine era and this was smth official.Of course a little darker than the one in M2TW .

    I had been to Mount Athos in Greece last year . (This is the monk republic autonomous from Greece established in the 8th century ,having 22 monasteries on a peninsula that has no land routes with the world) .I was surprised to see the flag of the republic is nowadays...the double -headed eagle on a yellow field.I think it must be the byzantine flag without change .Hmm I didn't notice does it have crown ?! Anyway I think we have still a part of the Byzantine Empire existing nowadays ...
    Yes, I found it on the Athos page. The truth it that in that time flags don't exist, but banners played role of flag. Flag that I posted was personal banner of Komnenian emperors, banner of the army was today Albania flag. Black eagle on red background.
    Last edited by Manuel Komnenos; April 29, 2007 at 12:07 PM.
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

  15. #35
    mr.blonde's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Well i think that the eagle in that screenshot is not correct. Yes it is a two headed eagle but not this one. And the porfyra color has 102-2-60 parameters.Yes in Greece we use the two headed eagle in a yellow background as a symbol, but mainly it is using by the orthodox church.For example the historical correct eagle is used by football team AEK Athens(yes i am fan ). Take a look
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK_Athens
    and more
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle
    Last edited by mr.blonde; April 29, 2007 at 12:25 PM.

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  16. #36
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Actually that flag that I have posted was a banner of Komnenian emperor. The yellow flag was banner of Palaelogian emperors.
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Thanks for the info Manuel!

  18. #38

    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_battle_tactics
    just in case you decide to create some byz units.

  19. #39
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    Mirage can you put my info topic on first page of this byz thread?
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

  20. #40
    Manuel Komnenos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: FACTION: The Byzantine Empire

    I have added provinces. If somebody know more please correct me.
    Why we dig up the past? To understand it.

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