[OLD DEV THREAD] FACTION: The Eastern Roman Empire

[Ahiga]

We've given some thought to recruiting generals. I'd like to see it featured to allow players to recruit a more unique general (Templar Generals, Ghulam or Mameluk generals, Elephant Generals, ect.), however I don't believe there were any of our factions where generals would be fighting on foot. So while I can say it's very likely to get recruitable generals, they will not be foot ones.

[Rex Armeniae]

Ahh, thanks for the very good answer!
To bad, I like foot generals but anyways I hope you implement the feature of being able to recruit generals. And unique generals sound good(Maybe on of the uniqueness would be on foot?) hehe

[teh.frickin.pope]

however I don't believe there were any of our factions where generals would be fighting on foot.

*cough*daylami chieftain*cough* Best general unit evar!!!!!11!!!eleven!!1

[CtrlAltDe1337]

We've given some thought to recruiting generals. I'd like to see it featured to allow players to recruit a more unique general (Templar Generals, Ghulam or Mameluk generals, Elephant Generals, ect.), however I don't believe there were any of our factions where generals would be fighting on foot. So while I can say it's very likely to get recruitable generals, they will not be foot ones.

I really like recruitable generals and hope they are in BC. They can represent the various generals, ghulams, nobles, etc that populated the realms. I think it would be cool if you could recruit (for example) Templar generals if you have the highest lvl Templar building/guild/whatever, Ghulam generals if you have the highest lvl ghulam building, etc. You could even give the Byzantines a Latinikon recruitable general. I think this would really help BC a lot. I can't stand vanilla where all the nobility of your realm are the king's uncles and brothers. Some should be, but there should also be many unrelated nobles.

[Rex Armeniae]

Yeah I think if u implement this it would add something nice on BC's popular face!

[Ahiga]

Now that you mention it, since the Khwarezmians do exist as our "Daylami" faction, and as they lack any Ghulams, a Daylami Chieftain general might be viable for them [Using the heavy Daylami Infantry mesh]. We cannot get a unique General appearance beyond the single one for each faction (It would also be very needless and a burden to do more if we had the ability), so it will be a different bodyguard than the family member's bodyguards, but the same general model.

We can consider it when we get to determing the general recruitments and units.

[Erwin Rommel]

i got it! you guys use the double eagle first and then after some time! It changed to the palegolai banner...........

[Miraj]

Are you asking us if we can change faction symbols mid-game?

[el_dude]

Are you asking us if we can change faction symbols mid-game?

seems like it...i think its fine to just pick one and stick with it even though that wouldn't be historically accurate...just my two cents

[Miraj]

Well, more importantly, we can't change faction symbols mid-game. Impossible.

[Manuel Komnenos]

So the best opinion is firstpage banner - I know that it's little early, but for example the firstpage banner - doubleheaded gold eagle on red/cyan red background was banner of emperor himself, dark eagle(like today albania) the banner of army (i'm not sure if was of infantry, cavalry or both), research needed.

[AnthoniusII]

So the best opinion is firstpage banner - I know that it's little early, but for example the firstpage banner - doubleheaded gold eagle on red/cyan red background was banner of emperor himself, dark eagle(like today albania) the banner of army (i'm not sure if was of infantry, cavalry or both), research needed.

Army's banners had not only the imperial eagle but also other symbols...Flags with the imperial eagle had five official armys colours(red,dark green,white,black and yellow)as background but before the fall of Constantinople the eagle itself was NOT black.Mostly they used darkgreen and dark red eagles...The black eagle was a gift from the emperor to kings who had blood relations with the imperial family.examlpe:Austria,Rusia and Albania.Greekorthodox church adopted black eagle with the same reason with the states abouve...the eagle must be the shadow of the emperor's real eagle until the empire raises again.So you can make army banners ussing diferent stripes of the imperial colours as background and a cross,an eagle as a sympol or only the compination of stripes....

[Manuel Komnenos]

Interesting! But imperial banner has gold eagle? And can you do a general research on eagle colors - signification?

[AnthoniusII]

Interesting! But imperial banner has gold eagle? And can you do a general research on eagle colors - signification?

Have you ever see modern greek army's banners?They coppy former byzantine ones!I will try to describe some exambles becaouse i don't know how to add images in the thread messages!!!1st:banner of Dommesticus (general)of the east... dark green background with red imperial eagle.The opposite was the flag of domesticus of the west.The full title was: Domesticus ton sholon tis annatoles or tis disseos (east or west).After 1204 the two great generals became one with the title of Megas Domesticus ton sholon (both east and west).After the influence of western occupation the the general with the title i mentioned had the insignia of his choise,for example Ioannes Kantacousinos as Domesticus had a golden lion on yellow background.The imperial guarison's banner was a traditional one.The sign of Crist(see banners of the both empires in barbarian invesion) in gold on white background.Imperial units (of all types) had striped banners in many combinations but in orrizontal way.A simple example is the the banner with a black,a red and a green stripe as background and a golden orthodox cross on them.Those type of banners were the banners of each province's group of army(thematic units).Lesser units of the province had single coloured banners ussing the one of the colour the provincial banner had...I'll come back with more info soon.

[Manuel Komnenos]

WOW! WOW! WOW! You will definitely receive +rep for this!

[Erwin Rommel]

if people can't decide whats the banner lets just use MTW style the greek orthodox cross! hahahahaha i kinda miss that one...............

[AnthoniusII]

Byzantine banners part 2:
We must see the banners as 1st pollitical and 2nd military...A 3rd type is the emperor's isingnia.The empire's oficial banner was the roman imperial eagle (the one with single head) even at the time of Komnenian dynasty.As a proofe see the banner of the empire of Trapezon where the Komnenians rooled until 1461.The imperial eagle (with 2 heads) was for the first time shown as the military mark of the emperor by the Basill 1st founder of the macedonian dynasty as a part of a myth to help him stay on the throne because he was a simple stableboy in the service of the imperial stables.So, the imperial eagle as we know it is the mark that justifies that the emperor leads the army.The army's flagbearer hold's also the empire's flag (the roman imperial eagle).The empire also had vast times of pease.In pease time the empire used the political flags(the orthodox cross with the four Bs)The cross and the letters were always in gold but the navy's flags had white background and the emisary or trade misions on perple or dark red background.This heraldic sign also informed that lands,ships or people were property of the king of the kings(a flag-passport).After the fall of sassanid empire no other ruller had the right to call himself (Basileus).Banners,titles and welth with military power were tools of a very saccefull diplomasy...In any realistic mod the dev.teams should use the white/gold flag for ships,the red/gold flag for cities the roman imperial flag for armies and the imperial mark for the emperor's bodyguard.If the mod has titles of fieldmarsals then the team could use the flags i have described before...

[Rex Armeniae]

The cross was the most historic Byzantine pattern.
It first appeared in the 4th century and was used in many flags. Its actually the navy flag.



Flag of the Greek Orthodox Church.
Its the double-headed eagle, and imo this one should be used.

And this is the late flag of the empire.



Imperial emblem, Palaiologoi:


Anyways, The Byzantine Empire most probably had no real stated flag, since when flags started being established the empire fell to the Turks and ceased to exist. But if it had one it must have been similar to the one flown by the Greek Orthodox Church (the Byzantine cross with the four B-shaped firesteels(First flag I posted)). However, many people in Greece think of the eagle flag as the Byzantine flag, as the double-headed eagle is a well known later Byzantine symbol.

[Miraj]

I need a historical family tree for the Byzantines. Any help would be appreciated.

Please specify: leader, heir, age, relationships, non-adult daugthers/sons, and free standing generals (not on family tree).

[teh.frickin.pope]

Leader: Michael VII Doukas Age: 24 Wife: Maria Bagrationi Age: 24 Georgian Princess Son: Constantine Doukas Age:1
Low command and authority. Chief Advisers led him to spend on arts and education vs. military. May very well have been severely cuckolded. Suffered many revolts and mutinies. Wife very beautiful. High Piety, later became a bishop.

Heir: either Nicephorus III Botaniates Who established a coup in 1078 Age:?? But rather older, died naturally in a monastery in 1081. Low authority, reign contested by almost everyone.

Or Alexius I Comnenus Age: 27(1175 right) good command, authority, generally kicked ass, overthrew Nicephorus, lover of Maria Bagrationi, founder of komnenian dynasty.

Generals:Nikephoros Bryennios supressed a revolt in the balkans before rebelling. Age: most likely late 30s to early 40s. Son: Nikephoros Bryennios Age: 13-14 if possible should be a good commander and extremely loyal, defending constantinople against Godfrey of Bouillon, refused to take part in several coups.

On a side note, this sounds awesome: The oxford dictionary of Byzantium