FACTION: The Kingdom of Armenia

[AlphaDelta]

Some of the units, you've already put in like the borderers. (I dont have so many pics though... Im seeking!

All of these units (except the didebuls and Azats) are available to Armenia, through their home provinces or the AoR system.

Didebuls and Azats..I'm confused...

Someone said he hadnt heard of didebuls, and for some reason we have aspet cavalry. Now the didebuls come back to life and we have Azats, I presume instead of aspets?

I will make it simple

Please name these units to their correct Armenian name:

Javelin cavalry
Medium spear cavalry
Heavy mace cavalry

im just thinking the georgian units look better (in colour and all) ... but it looks awesome, like said .. ur a god

Personally I prefer the Armenian units. They look a little grittier and more levy like. There's no clear 'colour scheme' to work from (unlike Georgia) so I tried to make them look a bit earthier.

Cheers

[Rex Armeniae]

Okay, hmm javelin cavalry ... Nizakahar Ayrudzi (Armenian Skirmisher Cavalry) is possible. Ayrudzi means the horseman.
Check out some units here http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...dan_units.html

The aspets are a kind of Medium cavalry... :S


And are you going to use this symbol??? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...usignanCOA.gif
Its the coat of arms of the Lusignan Dynasty of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia

And about the colours.. yeah the armenian units look more realistic maybe in colours.. hm they look earthier but im just saying if you are going to use this symbol as their main

then u can use that beige and make the units cooler. Just a thought

[Rex Armeniae]

Heres and armenian song which offcourse includes duduk

You can listen to it and say if you have any questions.
Its, Ceremonies by Armen Chakhmakhian

http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...Chaxmaxian.swf

btw, its just 50% - 60% of the whole song

[Ahiga]

Hm, I googled the name 'Armen Chakhmakhian', and it didn't come up with anything. Is there any anglicized (if that's the term) version that might turn up more? Really like it.

Found some! Hurrahs!

[Ermeni]

mirage41

i saw that you named the city tarsus..."tarus"....probably just a small miss...just making sure (Y)

[Miraj]

I checked the screen I posted and I spelled it "Tarsus" so its okay.

[Ermeni]

I checked the screen I posted and I spelled it "Tarsus" so its okay.

oops....my bad....

[Ermeni]

will sis be landlocked? i propose that it should have a port to reflect the trade that was intense along cilician Armenia's shoreline...(Y)

I'm sorry for the double post....forgot that i should edit

[Tadzreuli]

you will excuse me, but it is interesting: this word "DIdebul's" or "Didebuli" and that it does indicate in Armenian? I ask because "Didebuli" the purely Georgian word from word "Didi" indicates "large or "great". both phonetics and grammar, syntax in this word of purely Georgian and this structure of word in the Armenian language it is not encountered, can in the Armenian it eats another determination for the man from high feodal society?

[John I Tzimisces]

you will excuse me, but it is interesting: this word "DIdebul's" or "Didebuli" and that it does indicate in Armenian? I ask because "Didebuli" the purely Georgian word from word "Didi" indicates "large or "great". both phonetics and grammar, syntax in this word of purely Georgian and this structure of word in the Armenian language it is not encountered, can in the Armenian it eats another determination for the man from high feodal society?

None of us are entirely sure...although it is not uncommon to see languages mix when peoples do... Andranik *Pasha*, *Shahanshah* Dikran Medz...countless Caucasian Urartean words that are used in armenian now...

[Miraj]

Updated initial page with javelin pics and some details to be filled in.

I would like to know what faction leader and family members Armenia should start with? Remember Armenia starts with only two settlements so a max of 4 Family Members. Of course things like children and wives are not included in that number.

Would appreciate a basic start family tree.

[Ermeni]

Ruben III of Armenia (about 40 years) (faction leader) dynasty *the house of Roupenian*

wife to ruben Isabella of Toron (married 1181)

daughters Alice (1182) Philippa (1183)

rubens brother -- Levon II of Armenia (about 20 years) (faction heir)

He married Isabelle of Austria in 1189

after the death of levon II the experienced great baron and general Constantin/gosdantin ruled armenia (1220-1226) (though oficially there was queen isabelle on the throne)

so maybe Constantin/gosdantin should be added as a general.... (should be young maybe 23)

also the Armenian Catholicos (like patriarch) of the Holy See of Cilicia was Grigor IV

i will look in to this more and return with more info

the game will start in 1175 (i think)....this was the year when Ruben came to power though mleh (assassinated) also was in power earlier this year......

and i still wonder if sis will be landlocked?

[SickBoy13]

In the Latin alphabet, I've only seen it spelled Roupen or Rhoupen.
Also, Gosdantin should replace Kostantine or whatever is on that list.
In my experiences, "Tarsus" is always refered to (and I refer to it) as Tarseos.
Urha is Edessa as in Matevos (Matthew) Urhayetsi (of/from Edessa)

[Ermeni]

In the Latin alphabet, I've only seen it spelled Roupen or Rhoupen.
Also, Gosdantin should replace Kostantine or whatever is on that list.
In my experiences, "Tarsus" is always refered to (and I refer to it) as Tarseos.
Urha is Edessa as in Matevos (Matthew) Urhayetsi (of/from Edessa)

agreed - mostly.....i think it should be Roupen and Gosdantin......though i think it should be tarsus...personally i don't like if cities are named after their own language....it should be what they are internationally known as.....now thats only what i like

i wonder what will be done with that.....will cities like cairo and damascus be named with their arabic name al-qahira and sham/şam?

[IrAr]

I have a suggestion on the weapons of Armenia.
An axe like the Tabor was favoured in the highlands and by many nobles.
The gurz (mace) was quite popular among cavalry and same with the guzar (javelin).
Swords were either crusader gifts (more common than one would think), resembling shamshirs or like most Georgian swords (the majority were in this category).
Bows were the reliable Persio-Parthian composite bow.
Spears and Lances were both used by cavalry.

[Taneda Santôka]

Okay, I'm not an expert, but Armenians were orthodoxe ?
I thought the Armenian chuch didnt take part in the Calcedoiny (sp?) Council, thus to the discussions about Christ's double nature and the right to images, wich, to oppose Konstantinopolis, they rejected, as well as all byzantine artforms : frescos, mozaïcs, 3d sculpture (greek style), and I thought the armenian chuche was autocephal (catholikos?)... And whatever, just old remeberances from armenian art and cinema courses, but my question is, although good looking, why do they wear orthodox icons on their shields? Even byzantine didnt really use them on shields.
Excuse me if it has already been discussed and settled (not in this thread to my knowledge), or if my objections are false or out of timeframe...

[SickBoy13]

During this time frame, we were considered Heretics, however, as of late we have proved that we are not. See the Orthodox Christianity thread in Ethos subforum of Thema Devia.

Most of those are icons of St. Grikor (Gregory the Illuminator), patron saint of Armenia and the man who converted Armenia to Christianity.

[Drtad]

Okay, I'm not an expert, but Armenians were orthodoxe ?
I thought the Armenian chuch didnt take part in the Calcedoiny (sp?) Council, thus to the discussions about Christ's double nature and the right to images, wich, to oppose Konstantinopolis, they rejected, as well as all byzantine artforms : frescos, mozaïcs, 3d sculpture (greek style), and I thought the armenian chuche was autocephal (catholikos?)... And whatever, just old remeberances from armenian art and cinema courses, but my question is, although good looking, why do they wear orthodox icons on their shields? Even byzantine didnt really use them on shields.
Excuse me if it has already been discussed and settled (not in this thread to my knowledge), or if my objections are false or out of timeframe...

The Armenian church did not take part in the Council of Chalcedon because it was mobilizing all of its power to check the Sassanid Persian advance into Armenia. They rejected Byzantine art forms, because Armenian art and architecture is prettier quite frankly. Second, those icons are of Armenian saints, they aren't just Orthodox icons. Armenians were accused of being heretics, because they were not purely diophysite, Armenians are miaphysite. Simply, this means that the two nature of Christ, thehuman and the divine, intertwine to form the essence of God. This is the principal difference between the Armenian church and other Orthodox churches. Armenians are most certainly Orthodox, and if not, I severely misinterpreted what church I have been attending for the last 14 years. (Which I doubt)

[Reaper]

We weren't considered heretics. We were schismatics.

[Taneda Santôka]

Thanks for answers.
But well, you've repeated most of my points, saying Armenian art ist differnt because better (quite stupid way to see things or just patriotism?) but still they used icons? I thought they rejected Byzantine art, and icons are its most sybolic, so did they or not? Whoever is depicted, did the armenian church use them and did the armenian armies use icons on their shields? I thought they rejected the right to represent, and its the only point of my post wich you havent answered, I' quite interested...