FACTION: The Kingdom of Georgia

[Ermeni]

That can be changed in 5 seconds.

But is it historical?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...menia-1885.gif

Pictures of Ani's ruins show it to be a castle, with a citadel and defensive towers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ani

"At the height of its glory, Ani had a population of 100,000 - 200,000 people and was the rival of Constantinople, Baghdad and Cairo. Long ago renowned for its splendor and magnificence, Ani has been abandoned and largely forgotten for centuries."

^thats why i though that making Ani a city would be accurate

i think there where great defensive structures in Constantinople, Baghdad and Cairo as well as in Ani.....

[John I Tzimisces]

I'm going to have to agree with ermeni. Yerevan is a relatively minor city (founded initially as a fortress in ancient times, perhaps before the armenian presence, known as Erebuni) until more recent times, though after this period the ottomans, persians, and russians will all have a mint in the city.

[Miraj]

Okay, I'll do that.

[Tadzreuli]

In 1175 ad the city of Ani was one of major city in the Georgian empire after Tbilisi (capitol). It would be fair, in a city Telavi, witch was not so importent for Georgian kingdom, Ani to include in Georgians provinces.

[ARMENIOS]

The only time when Armenian - Georgian forces leded by Iave & Zakare could capture and hold the city for some long time was in 1199- 1200, all other times befor it they had return it back to Shaddadids after a short time of ruling and finally in 1236 Zakarids (governors of Ani) became vasals of mongols with their terretory.

In mine opinion it's better to give the large Ani city to rebelians...

[Miraj]

Ani will be a rebel province with mixture of Armenian and Turkish rebels. Nothing can change my mind about that. I've made many ahistorical changes to the start positions so that there is some actual fun in expanding and conquering new lands.

[Tadzreuli]

The only time when Armenian - Georgian forces leded by Iave & Zakare could capture and hold the city for some long time was in 1199- 1200, all other times befor it they had return it back to Shaddadids after a short time of ruling and finally in 1236 Zakarids (governors of Ani) became vasals of mongols with their terretory.

In mine opinion it's better to give the large Ani city to rebelians...

sorry but, isn't true , look:

Before it Georgian David IV "the Restorer" (r. 1089-1125) has released Ani from turks in 1124, then George III (r. 1156-1184) has entered wars against muslims coalition (Ilgezids and Adarbadagan lords) for preservations Ani and Dvin (in 1161-1162) in borders of Georgia and at last Georgia crushed muslims armyes, in 1173 George III retook old Armenian city of Dvin and by this all north Armenia icorporated into Georgian empire. Amirspasalar ("ministre of defence") of Georgia Johan Orbeli has been appointed by the governor of Ani and Zakaria Mkhargrdzeli (Zakarid) - governor of Lore and Dvin. after thet, until Tamerlans invesion north (Ani, Dvin, Nakhchevan, Artsakh - "Karabakh") Armenia was a part of Georgian kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_Georgia

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Georgia/georgia2.htm

http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/image...gia/geor_histr 21.htm

http://www.georgianweb.com/history/m...hapter2.html#6

Ani will be a rebel province with mixture of Armenian and Turkish rebels. Nothing can change my mind about that. I've made many ahistorical changes to the start positions so that there is some actual fun in expanding and conquering new lands.

of course, NP

[ARMENIOS]

You mixed it up dear Tadzreuli, the meaning of my post was that.

Before 1199-1200 Armenian - Gerogian forces took Ani couple of times, but couldn't hold it for a long time, the longsit period was when Zakhare became governor of Ani in 1200 AD till 1236 when he with the city and other regions became the vassal of Mongols.

First time in 1124 (but after short time had to leave to back to Shaddadids)
Second time in 1261 (after short time had to leave back)
Third time in 1174 (and as before had to give back after a short time)

Only in 1199-1200 they could hold it for a "long" time, in 1236 Zakarids became the vassals of Mongols till 1380 when Tamerlan captured Ani.

sorry but, isn't true , look:

Before it Georgian David IV "the Restorer" (r. 1089-1125) has released Ani from turks in 1124, then George III (r. 1156-1184) has entered wars against muslims coalition (Ilgezids and Adarbadagan lords) for preservations Ani and Dvin (in 1161-1162) in borders of Georgia and at last Georgia crushed muslims armyes, in 1173 George III retook old Armenian city of Dvin and by this all north Armenia icorporated into Georgian empire. Amirspasalar ("ministre of defence") of Georgia Johan Orbeli has been appointed by the governor of Ani and Zakaria Mkhargrdzeli (Zakarid) - governor of Lore and Dvin. after thet, until Tamerlans invesion north (Ani, Dvin, Nakhchevan, Artsakh - "Karabakh") Armenia was a part of Georgian kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_Georgia

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Georgia/georgia2.htm

http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/image...gia/geor_histr 21.htm

http://www.georgianweb.com/history/m...hapter2.html#6

of course, NP

[Tadzreuli]

When I was younger, I'd pray for a new bike every day. Then I learned God works differently, so I stole one and asked for forgiveness

really? you are "genius" as well

ok, don't worry, Ani is rebel province...

only here it is interesting, whence has got city Kutaisi in RTW, in the Armenian kingdom borders in 270 BC, then in fact the Armenian kingdom did not exist still, it was formed in 190 BC, when one Armenian governor of Siryan Empire Artashes has declared Armenia independent? You above it not thinking and also were not indignant as a "fair soul"???

and finaly:

please, don't give here some lection about history, such as a part oficial propagation of some nationalist groups . . .

we, all also know history as well, not you alone !

cheers.

P.S.

and finish here layman debats !

we make mod and as mirage sad, Ani and Yerevan will be rebel provinces ! I hope your vanity it is not touched by it

[ARMENIOS]

really? you are "genius" as well

ok, don't worry, Ani is rebel province...

only here it is interesting, whence has got city Kutaisi in RTW, in the Armenian kingdom borders in 270 BC, then in fact the Armenian kingdom did not exist still, it was formed in 190 BC, when one Armenian governor of Siryan Empire Artashes has declared Armenia independent? You above it not thinking and also were not indignant as a "fair soul"???

and finaly:

please, don't give here some lection about history, such as a part oficial propagation of some nationalist groups . . .

we, all also know history as well, not you alone !

cheers.

P.S.

and finish here layman debats !

we make mod and as mirage sad, Ani and Yerevan will be rebel provinces ! I hope your vanity it is not touched by it

No you'r the nationalist "genius", when there is no arguments then babeling (as a old georgian woman) is your truly weapon.
And finally, I don't giva a * about you "knowledge" there is another side of the story as well, put it in your falshood brain and on your arrogant face.

ADIOS!

[Tadzreuli]

falshood brain and on your arrogant face.

hm... very interesting , tank you for "genius" advise

[Ermeni]

that debate got ugly....even though i'm not the most objective mind in this question i think that tadzreuli started the unpleasant act

i mean why did you start with this Tadzreuli

When I was younger, I'd pray for a new bike every day. Then I learned God works differently, so I stole one and asked for forgiveness

really? you are "genius" as well

that was low....

it seems as if you couldn't answer armenios post (you started to talk about RTW and other stuff)

i know that people get frustrated from time to time (yes even me)

PEACE!!!

[John I Tzimisces]

That's armenios's sig, probably before lord rahl changed the skin to be more distinctive between signature and the actual post.

In any case, enough, mirage has stated his intention, this line of discussion should stop.

[Drtad]

really? you are "genius" as well

ok, don't worry, Ani is rebel province...

only here it is interesting, whence has got city Kutaisi in RTW, in the Armenian kingdom borders in 270 BC, then in fact the Armenian kingdom did not exist still, it was formed in 190 BC, when one Armenian governor of Siryan Empire Artashes has declared Armenia independent? You above it not thinking and also were not indignant as a "fair soul"???

Just one last off topic thing to say...

The Armenian Kingdom most certainly did exist in 270 BC under the Yervanduni dynasty. Colchis was not in its borders at that time though... but Colchis was part of ancient Armenia around 800BC, so maybe they wanted to do to Armenia what they did to Egypt in a geographical way?

Also, Artashes was most certainly not the Seleucid governor of Armenia. The internet sites are wrong. Artashes was a Yervanduni noble who rebelled against the weak regime of Yervand IV.

[Tadzreuli]

but Colchis was part of ancient Armenia around 800BC,

I apologize, but and where historical sources, which prove your idea??? They simply are not present on light, my dear, sorry .
in the first Armenian state did not exist up to 190 BC, in the second statehood of Colchis has arisen in XIII-XII a century an late Colchians state was established in VIII c. BC, on the Greek and Urartian sources.

At me final ask to you, Armenians, as you can see, we, Georgians and you, Armenians, we speak here on the deferent languages. It will be better if you will write about Armenia in your section, and about Georgia we shall write here.

I offer:

Armenians do not write in the Georgian section, and Georgians in - Armenian section. As already you see, we, Georgians it is not interesting to us that you there in the section write.

I hope this time to us it will be possible will finally agree.

The answer to this post can write in the Armenian section! ok ?

[Miraj]

OKAY.

Armenians can write wherever they want.
Georgians can write wherever they want.

No need to start segregating people. Just have a polite discussion and if you frustrate each other just agree to disagree and move on.

But seriously, its 2007AD. These issues shouldn't be so personal really.

[Tadzreuli]

No need to start segregating people. Just have a polite discussion and if you frustrate each other just agree to disagree and move on.

ok, good idea, I never mentioned the person of mine opponents, and here others have not politely told about me and have mentioned my person :

"And finally, I don't giva a * about you "knowledge" there is another side of the story as well, put it in your falshood brain and on your arrogant face."

the author - dear Armenios !

ok, I finish !

[Miraj]

Don't worry Tadzreuli. Ive read all the posts, just relax and report any personal attacks.

[Tadzreuli]

Don't worry Tadzreuli. Ive read all the posts, just relax and report any personal attacks.

tanks



Whether probably to display on the battle maps original architecture, for example here such this:



this is Shiomgvime monastery, founded by Siryan monk st. Shio in VII c. ad.

[Eraser]

Just out of interest, what is Georgia's weakness going to be? They seem pretty tough in cavalry, infantry and archers departments.