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Thread: Getting this Show on the Road

  1. #1

    Default Getting this Show on the Road

    To get things started initially I thought it would be a good idea to see how we got to this point and then discuss how we can build upon what we already have.

    The TWC Wiki was suggested at the end of last year by Prof here. The General Sun kindly offered to host this wiki and it was born. After initial success activity dwindled, only kept up by 'political articles'. When imb bought the site we promised to move the wiki onto our own servers and make it an integral part of TWC. Now the wiki is in the realm of the Curia, technical aspects obviously controlled by Sim, so we have the chance to do whatever we want to do with it.

    The articles on the wiki at the moment are half finished, with some major topics completely blanked over, such as the Total War series. The problem with a wiki is getting it started initially, we need people to contribute. If everyone contributes a little bit it would be better than a few die hard members contributing a lot.

    So, I have a few ideas about how we can move forward this wiki, they are not in any sort of chronological or rank order. We need to move the wiki on to our own servers, preferably at http://wiki.twcenter.net . As most of the administering of a wiki is done through ftp access this will give is more control over what features we want to enable etc. This leads me onto my next suggestion of enabling imgaes, people like to post images and they can make it look 100% more professional, but enabling images requires changing some files.

    We need to advertise this wiki. In the staff forums a few weeks ago someone raised the idea of a press release on the front page that could even be sent to CA. I think this is an excellent idea, but I just haven't had the time and won't have until the end of next week. Also, if we want to get mod leaders involved in updating their own mods take Rise of Persia as an example then I think that would benefit the wiki as mod leaders will want their entry to be good and they obviously know more about their own mod than we do.

    What does everyone else think?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Re: moving onto TWC servers I think we need an update from Sim. on status of that as to spare bandwidth etc. - unless site just doesn't like me - I think there might still be some capacity problems. Being able to host images on Wiki server would also be great but again we need advice on bandwidth.

    I agree whole heartedly about getting mod team leaders/members to input info about their own mods. Talking about self / own project always seems most popular thing to enter, and its a good way of getting more people started on using Wiki as well as being useful addition to content. I'd suggest we make blank pages for all the mods we know of and get them into rudimentary categories so task isn't too daunting for any one who hasn't used Wiki before. We can then PM link to page to mod leader with invitation to add content as they see fit.

    Also if we can sort mod categories so they show things like the full list of released mods for game X, or mods that work from mod-folder, which are things that are often asked for here by prospective players - it gives reason to refer people to those areas of Wiki, which would again help advertise it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    yeah, i don't want the wiki onto TWCs servers if it causes any increase in the frequent problems are servers have...


    i've edited and produced a few articles on the current wiki, i think the hardest bit is that there's no base structure in place on it. its hard to find specific articles, because the lniks aren't all in place, and thats because its hard to find which articles exist or not.... and so on... vicious circle.

    someone *cougheditorcough* ought to draw up a comprehensive base category list so people can start filling in the blanks and linking pages together


    also, it would be nice if someone more experienced than i with wiki could produce/link to a helpful little guide to wiki's mark-up language...

  4. #4
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    On the wiki is a link to "Editing Help" under navigation which leads here:

    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing

    i found it very useful, in particular this as a general overview for text formatting (including links):
    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    someone *cougheditorcough* ought to draw up a comprehensive base category list so people can start filling in the blanks and linking pages together
    Nasty cough you have there tBP...:hmmm:

    I'm up to my ear lobes in exams until the end of next week, but this is a comprehensive list of all the categories on the wiki at the moment:

    http://www.tw.generalscollective.com...ial:Categories

    I'd say the categories are ok at the moment, especially on the Communoty side of things. The Modding categories need sorting out and I think makanyane had some good ideas about that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    The Modding categories need sorting out and I think makanyane had some good ideas about that.
    Ugh, hopefully you only mean post #2, having got up at 4am this morning I'm having trouble remembering my own name, let alone anything I might have said earlier!

    Thing I vaguely remember saying to someone was re: modding areas, it would be good if you could start at general modding category, then pick game, then say 'units' - from that get newbies over-view of elements involved, then pick on individual element '2d graphics' / 'unit stats' whatever, again get overview of subject then link down through topics / categories till you get to links to really fine technical detail such as modder 'x's personal theory on stat_charge distance. (I'd started vague attempt at populating RTW units section but not got very far)

    What I'm not so sure on with that, or earlier thing about splitting mods into released, BI, mod-folder etc 'categories'. Is how much can be done solely with actual Wiki categories and how much needs to be done with article pages contained editorial text and explained links. Just using the Wiki category function seems to lead to some pretty un-attractive pages, and unless you're very careful with page titles they aren't always that easy to find things in.

    ******************************************************

    As different topic do we need to consider extent to which we try and copy existing information (tutorials, constitution etc) in, IF they are already up-to-date here, rather than just providing summary and linking structure? And also where do we need to get permission from original poster to copy stuff - some things, curia legislation etc. I guess would be TWC 'property', but for tutorials I'd think we might need permission of original poster. (and in asking for it could always try and volunteer them to input it themselves )

    Btw for anything off TWC I think we definitely need explicit consent to copy.

  7. #7
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Responding to makanyane's PM: currently one priority of mine is shoving as much as possible off the current server (the old ON sites are still here, except Zoo Admin). Furthermore, I have very little time. So currently, I don't view it as practical to move the wiki onto the server, even though it will probably add relatively little load. In the long term I don't know.

    Sun can feel free to put up some ads for the time being to cover his costs, of course.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    I don't have much interest in putting up ads, and actually come to think of it I would like the wiki off my hands if possible-unless this committee comes up with some other idea.

    With that said, could we please move this committee out of the hex section?
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    or rather, rename this section Curial Committees, as both committees here are Curial

  10. #10

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    as tBP said re committee it's really naming issue only. Committee's are actually viewable by all as part of Curia section so they are not 'in hex' just a bit miss-labelled.

    General Sun and Simetrical, please don't both disown Wiki!
    As it's said that load isn't that much, is problem with ongoing maintenance?
    If so could someone be given access to just that particular sub-section on server? *coughs* loudly at Perikles who seems to understand more of this..

    Part of problem with not knowing where it is going to end up or when, is not knowing what we can do about posting links to info on the Wiki on TWC. It's already a bit embarrassing that there are a lot of dead links around in old posts to things that moved in Download sections re-vamp etc. I'd hate to see same situation created with Wiki moving and having to have interim solution of third server / domain name would be worst of all possibilities.
    (I'm assuming path forwarding wouldn't be practical)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    I can easily forward the old url to a new one if the wiki moves (including partial url replacement). I'm not disowning the wiki, don't worry. My server will be around until this committee decides to move it or some such.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    General Sun and Simetrical, please don't both disown Wiki!
    As it's said that load isn't that much, is problem with ongoing maintenance?
    If so could someone be given access to just that particular sub-section on server? *coughs* loudly at Perikles who seems to understand more of this..
    I think the first thing we need to establish is how much memory the wiki is taking up on the GC servers, then we can see whether it is viable or not to move it onto our own. As to ftp access and all that, I have little to know knowledge of it, with the only knowledge I do have with cpanel at another forum. I'd be willing to learn if maintaining the wiki is part of my job as Wiki officer though, atleast this would take some load off Sim.

  13. #13
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    General Sun and Simetrical, please don't both disown Wiki!
    As it's said that load isn't that much, is problem with ongoing maintenance?
    If so could someone be given access to just that particular sub-section on server?
    It would be possible, yes, I suppose. We're not going to see much of a hit in moving the wiki here. Perikles or whoever can be given limited FTP access to the appropriate place. Sun should give me a dump of the database and I can install it maybe Tuesday.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical View Post
    It would be possible, yes, I suppose. We're not going to see much of a hit in moving the wiki here. Perikles or whoever can be given limited FTP access to the appropriate place. Sun should give me a dump of the database and I can install it maybe Tuesday.
    That's great, thanks Sim!

    Starting on Saturday I have 2 weeks with the easter Holidays so I will be able to get a lot done then. Hopefully we can get this fully off the ground.

  15. #15
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Note that Sun will need to give me the database. Someone may want to poke him about that.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Speaking of getting this show on the road, could we set up a domain mask/forward for the wiki, wiki.twcenter.net or something?
    Count no man happy until he is dead.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Crossing few topics here but as everyone is subscribed to this thread:
    Speaking of getting this show on the road, could we set up a domain mask/forward for the wiki, wiki.twcenter.net or something?
    agreed, new (permanent) url would be good - I'm very rusty on when I last looked SEO stuff up but assume if it is wiki.twcenter.net or similar that is Ok to submit to Google etc as top level of separate 'site' ? Also can't remember how much that likes re-directs - but we could hang on to do that until it actual reaches new home if necessary. Eventually though I think one of us needs to do manual submissions to the major search engines.

    Prof mentioned key-words in another thread, and I noticed Simetrical say elsewhere that a lot of TWC custom came from google searches. Prof could you explain if wiki structure behaves any differently from normal website in relation to keywords (I'm certainly not sure if bits I've put in are coming up right on searches atm) and Simetrical if you wouldn't mind divulging some of the most frequently used search terms we could perhaps try and optimise a bit for that.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Alright I'm sending it to Sim. (Just got online after a quickie break).
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  19. #19
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor420 View Post
    Speaking of getting this show on the road, could we set up a domain mask/forward for the wiki, wiki.twcenter.net or something?
    I will, give me time. The wiki is set up at http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/. I'll do some more configuring and give Perikles FTP access to it sometime, not sure when, maybe Saturday night or Sunday or maybe Tuesday night or Wednesday. Then I'll go on to other things, like fixing the front page.
    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    agreed, new (permanent) url would be good - I'm very rusty on when I last looked SEO stuff up but assume if it is wiki.twcenter.net or similar that is Ok to submit to Google etc as top level of separate 'site' ?
    Google mostly ranks page-by-page, as far as I know, but I'm hardly expert at this stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Also can't remember how much that likes re-directs - but we could hang on to do that until it actual reaches new home if necessary.
    It will happily follow redirects, once it checks back and finds them.
    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Eventually though I think one of us needs to do manual submissions to the major search engines.
    There's an extension or something for MW to make a sitemap for Google. I'll set that up at some point, too, I just have to be reminded . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Prof mentioned key-words in another thread, and I noticed Simetrical say elsewhere that a lot of TWC custom came from google searches. Prof could you explain if wiki structure behaves any differently from normal website in relation to keywords (I'm certainly not sure if bits I've put in are coming up right on searches atm) and Simetrical if you wouldn't mind divulging some of the most frequently used search terms we could perhaps try and optimise a bit for that.
    Wikis tend to do very well on Google's search algorithm, due to all the internal links. Non-dynamic URLs and non-duplication of content help too; MediaWiki is highly SEO-optimized from the get-go, pretty much. Search terms are basically what you'd expect, "total war" and "twcenter" and so on. I suppose I can get ahold of a more precise summary at some point, but not now, Google's being uncooperative.

    Edit: Oh, I've disabled registration on the wiki. I plan to periodically import the TWC user database instead, so there's only one place of registration.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Getting this Show on the Road

    Thanks Simetrical.

    Next question - does anyone know how to get hosted elsewhere images that were working before working again? I can't figure out procedure to get anything to display at the moment - and I assume that should be our next task to get those back working?

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