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Thread: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    I'm open to all suggestions and discussion,you may post them here in this thread.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    can't have a teutonic order faction without it's nemesis the duchy of lithuania

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    Hephaistos's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    If your Mod will run until the year 1699, you will enter a quite interesting periode of naval warfare at the end of the campaign. Many famous types of ships have been developed in the 15th and especiallary in the 16th and 17th century, for example the caravel, the galeon, the brig and the brigantine, the sloop and the frigate and so on. Of course in MTW2 you can't fight your sea battles yourself, so many different types of ships would do little difference. But it would be possible to give many factions unique types of ships. Also it would be possible in later game to replace the old types with new one, so for example a sloop could replace the old cog (allthough the sloop is quite small to transfer troops) build in the port, while a frigate could replace the gun holk build in the dockyard, and so on.

    I would also suggest new naval guilds in the late game. For example a naval guild could be able to build ships with more experience or with more movement points. Another possibility would be that they generate constantly an income from the caribian.

    Another possibility for the early campaigne could be a hanse guild, only buildable in cities, which belonged to the hanse. They could be better merchant guild, or they could have a global effects like increasing ships experience, movement points or the income of naval trade routes.

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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaistos View Post
    If your Mod will run until the year 1699, you will enter a quite interesting periode of naval warfare at the end of the campaign. Many famous types of ships have been developed in the 15th and especiallary in the 16th and 17th century, for example the caravel, the galeon, the brig and the brigantine, the sloop and the frigate and so on. Of course in MTW2 you can't fight your sea battles yourself, so many different types of ships would do little difference. But it would be possible to give many factions unique types of ships. Also it would be possible in later game to replace the old types with new one, so for example a sloop could replace the old cog (allthough the sloop is quite small to transfer troops) build in the port, while a frigate could replace the gun holk build in the dockyard, and so on.

    I would also suggest new naval guilds in the late game. For example a naval guild could be able to build ships with more experience or with more movement points. Another possibility would be that they generate constantly an income from the caribian.

    Another possibility for the early campaigne could be a hanse guild, only buildable in cities, which belonged to the hanse. They could be better merchant guild, or they could have a global effects like increasing ships experience, movement points or the income of naval trade routes.
    Well thought Hephaistos I liked the idea of the new ships.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    whats about switzerland i would like to play the swissmen because myself i am from switzerland. will you include knights and knaves ? maybe you can include the factions that are already made, like flanders, wales and ireland their already good but with your experience zephrelial they could be made perfect.

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by toopers View Post
    whats about switzerland i would like to play the swissmen because myself i am from switzerland. will you include knights and knaves ? maybe you can include the factions that are already made, like flanders, wales and ireland their already good but with your experience zephrelial they could be made perfect.
    I see toopers,Hmm.. if there will be new extra factions.I guess I'll have to do like Portvcale's...
    Create the factions and use them as a reserve system.There are maximum of 21 factions available on Grand campaign so let's say for example I added switzerland,wales,ireland that makes 24 factions so some factions will be in the reserves.
    It's complicated because I couldn't explain much
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    i understand its a pity that you cant rise up the number of nations...
    a question will you include knights and knaves or will you edit the textures yourself cause ive played all your mods but i always got problems with the compatility to other texture mods and i really would like to play al of this together

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by toopers View Post
    i understand its a pity that you cant rise up the number of nations...
    a question will you include knights and knaves or will you edit the textures yourself cause ive played all your mods but i always got problems with the compatility to other texture mods and i really would like to play al of this together
    Well,I also personally use the Burrek's early and high period textures,and like them quite a lot,for full compatibility I need to add them to the mod with necessary changes to prevent the conflicts.
    But as far as I remember Kingdom of Jerusalem and Teutonic order mods should be compatible with Burrek's textures.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    I have a suggestion. I think that factions without gunpowder in the late should have some like scotland. As far as historical accuracy im not sure how you would implement that but just a thought

  10. #10

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Well, not sure what to add...seems this mod by info page is going in good direction.Only thing would be to discuss possible factions appearing in the game?
    Seems in all other "faction" mods its all heavily oriented around europe, exept of broken cresant mod, but that is well heavily based upon middle east and asia.
    I like to play entire world myself.'
    If you Zeph can consider one more faction in middle east,considering that you probably will have georgia, that would be great.More than that could get too crowdy, considering possibility that mongols can appear near baghdad area.
    For Balancing reasons maybe one more faction in Balkan besides Wallachia that you plan, or above it?Lithuania...was looking of some pics on forum, they have some interesting unit setup.
    Anyways...cool cool....
    Just one quick question? Was Wallachia independent at 1100?(by independent i mean they were not conquered, vassal is ok, evryone is paying someone, way of life...but not conqured)
    Fighting with the Wisdom, the Bosnian Kingdom

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    @Yourdoom what exactly do you mean by those factions should have something like scotland?
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazi Husrev-Beg View Post
    Well, not sure what to add...seems this mod by info page is going in good direction.Only thing would be to discuss possible factions appearing in the game?
    Seems in all other "faction" mods its all heavily oriented around europe, exept of broken cresant mod, but that is well heavily based upon middle east and asia.
    I like to play entire world myself.'
    If you Zeph can consider one more faction in middle east,considering that you probably will have georgia, that would be great.More than that could get too crowdy, considering possibility that mongols can appear near baghdad area.
    For Balancing reasons maybe one more faction in Balkan besides Wallachia that you plan, or above it?Lithuania...was looking of some pics on forum, they have some interesting unit setup.
    Anyways...cool cool....
    Just one quick question? Was Wallachia independent at 1100?(by independent i mean they were not conquered, vassal is ok, evryone is paying someone, way of life...but not conqured)
    I have also feared that the middleeast could be too crowded,I liked to implement Kingdom of Georgia however,that faction is already in the process of making in the Broken Crescent mod,they already have unit textures banners and everything.
    So as a priority I came up with the idea of another faction which is Khwarezmed Empire,I think it's a faction worthy enough to be featured and might prove interesting,also it will be nice to add it since It will increase the number of Islamic factions by 1 and will help them a bit about being vastly outnumbered by Catholics.
    For Lithuania,I'm always for it.Since they are the nemesis of the Teutonics.And being pagan makes them interesting.
    And as for Wallachia I think it will be a perfect addition to the Orthodox factions and also a nice buffer state between the Hungarians and the Byzantine.Plus I always wanted to create them.
    As for your question I'm not sure that Wallachia was whether independent at 1100 or not but,as far as I know they were always a vassal of HRE and Hungary judging by the history.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Mod Suggestions Gazi-Zeph

    Well vassal is ok by me, as long they are not annexed or something.Might be very interesting.

    i thought of one thing, might sound strange or rather impossible, but is something to think about.After you have made clouds of europe to your vision with factions you plan, would it be possible to make more factions?
    So if I am tired of same faction setup, i just swap one with the other?
    Also in my first game of KoJ mod france got destroyed very quickly, first attacked by portugese, than danish, than genose.Acualy its funny, but i cant recall them fighting english at all.
    I was thinking of method someone spoke whn they wanted to make "unlimeted" factions for one of Rome mods.Basically its you swap places with that other faction, temporarly making them rebels.I know with that I wouldnt let France go down, its kinda boring whn "major" factions get out of game too soon!
    I know what you mean about major factions get destroyed too quickly.Personally I hate it,too.
    However,I have 2 guarenteed ways to fully prevent that.In my game france or hre never get destrpyed too quickly I use certain method for that just didn't released it for the community.These 2 ways are related with altering the AI of some overly aggressive factions such as milan and denmark.A third method is faction reemerging.Due to all my efforts and also trying faction shadowing like in RTw:BI,unfortunately I couldn't get it to run without CTD.
    I see what you mean about creating nearly unlimited factions.Unlimited possible?I don't know but you may place the factions you create in the unplayable faction selection.Then switch the factions you wish to play by switching them between unplayable and playable.I suppose this is entirely possible in theory.
    In practice understand this.To create a faction is not that hard.However,doing the retexturing of units,unitcards,symbols,logos,strat models.This takes time.And when I create a faction I want it to fully resemble like the vanilla factions,not a detail missing.
    Therefore you need to do info-tgas,map tgas in campaign folder.Plus you need to implement the logos in shared.tga's of UI's.Not to mention doing all the text work and units,buildings for the availability of faction units.
    In short what I mean is creating a faction is kind of a long process,depending on your skill.I'm alone so it takes a while for me.
    By the way I've finished the Kwarezm faction.However,as I created the faction from nothing I'm experiencing some fatal problems about the textures of units being not visible.If I can overcome the problem,I will release it or may include it in Clouds Across Europe beta.

    Correction
    Last edited by Zephrelial; March 27, 2007 at 11:31 PM. Reason: fixing mistake
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    So far you have implemented 3 new playble factions.One for north europe and two for middle east.Evryone seems to have some favouritte factions in game they would like to implement.
    I know that you (Zephrelial) is planing to add Wallachia and Lithuania to game.So far you will use 5 slots, that means you will have 4 open for possible factions.Maybe 5 if you dich Aztecs and concentrate on Europe and Asia(middle east)

    I was thinking just make American continent full with agressive rebel Armies and script cities very rebellious if not converted to christianity or islam maybe(I doubt it tho).I am thinking at start native american should be problem, later on nuisance for europens.Becouse spanish, portugal, english, french and HRE would possibly war over new continent for resources, gold, spices etc as it was I guess.So becouse of that I would preserve Aztec slot for some other faction in Europe or middle east.

    As you add more factions Zeph, you should consider seriously adding more provinces or just rearrange some of those existing, like cut it in two.I know on balkan there is large province with city zagreb and coast dalmatia.Just there should be made 2-3 new provinces and some more up north on baltic and middle eastern europe where poland, hungary and wallachia will be.
    But not too much provinces, i dont like that either.I liked RTWR, but after conquering Italy with Romans i got pretty tired of the game, it became huge siege fest, pretty boring after a while.I started to miss open field battles.
    So my guess is around 20 new provinces with extending a map bit east, not much tho.Balancing is important i belive, but evryone has their play style.

    It would be cool if attacking capital cities, that citie would spawn some defending armie.Making it very hard to conquer and destroy factions, as it should be.Constantinople didnt acually fell before much of Byzant lands were overrun, either by Turks, Serbians, Bulgarians,than they were so to say left with Constantinople just before they last days.Making that scrip would be awsome.I just hate when Venice loose their capital city so early on.Maybe making Venice on a Island as some suggested.That script might help AI keep it alive.Army that is spawned has 0 upkeep as long as its in the city, outside, it can just disband.Like that AI doesnt go in minus and is not forced to attack right away, even their allies whn they need coin.

    I remeber some talking about script upkeep of units can increase whn in enemy territory.That could keep AI from entering enemy territory if it really isnt interested in attack.I hoped some feature in expansion pack would make it so that we can make raids etc on enemy territory.Something that would expand strategie without need of implementing 100 provinces with new factions.It has been mentioned that one can now improve forts somehow, i think its mostly just for war improvments.Thats good, its step in right direction.But i was thinking, once you make new fort somewhere on strategic ground after choice, one could have lowered upkkep on armies, ability to hire mercenaries from forts.Building like new traderoute, merchant, etc.It could be like temporary settlement.So enemy would have to attack it first, destroy forts before moving to the provincial settlemnt.This means Enemy would have to have really large army and move quickly, becouse you would have ok time to rearrange counter attack or just reinforce settlemt that it can withstand siege.I dont know if something like this is possible now, but my hope is that something like this will feature in expansion about forts.
    Hehe, lots of that last was what i would like in game and not realistic for mod, sory i get carried away,having big imagination i guess

    I know there is just so many factions one can add, but i was thinking(imagine that, hehe).As you make all factions you had in mind having originally in Clouds across europe mod, what about continuing making factions.So those who would like to play with some other factions than those present can just unzip and overrite that faction using another one simply.For exep, instead of Kingdom of Georgia I would like to have present Cilician Kingdom of Armenia, but faction limt has been reached.So you make compatible faction for your mod that on installment removes one faction of your choosing.Same if if Serbia is ingame, but i want Bulgaria or visa versa.Hmmm, i hope you understand what i think.I say becouse, I as others would like to have some faction included for my personal taste, this might make that happen, I hoped someone would make factions mod like this eventually...

    This is easy for me to say, but very hard to do.It might be something to think about whn your mod has reached potensiall of your liking Zephrelial.
    Good luck with modding Zeph and thanks for contributing to community.I hope i wasnt imposing somewhat (YOU, DO this, DO that!, lol) by my post.Some things i think are possible by games engin,e others are maybe fiction so far, but i hope can be done eventually... anyways its something to think about, keep up god work Zeph
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    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazi Husrev-Beg View Post
    So far you have implemented 3 new playble factions.One for north europe and two for middle east.Evryone seems to have some favouritte factions in game they would like to implement.
    I know that you (Zephrelial) is planing to add Wallachia and Lithuania to game.So far you will use 5 slots, that means you will have 4 open for possible factions.Maybe 5 if you dich Aztecs and concentrate on Europe and Asia(middle east)

    I was thinking just make American continent full with agressive rebel Armies and script cities very rebellious if not converted to christianity or islam maybe(I doubt it tho).I am thinking at start native american should be problem, later on nuisance for europens.Becouse spanish, portugal, english, french and HRE would possibly war over new continent for resources, gold, spices etc as it was I guess.So becouse of that I would preserve Aztec slot for some other faction in Europe or middle east.

    As you add more factions Zeph, you should consider seriously adding more provinces or just rearrange some of those existing, like cut it in two.I know on balkan there is large province with city zagreb and coast dalmatia.Just there should be made 2-3 new provinces and some more up north on baltic and middle eastern europe where poland, hungary and wallachia will be.
    But not too much provinces, i dont like that either.I liked RTWR, but after conquering Italy with Romans i got pretty tired of the game, it became huge siege fest, pretty boring after a while.I started to miss open field battles.
    So my guess is around 20 new provinces with extending a map bit east, not much tho.Balancing is important i belive, but evryone has their play style.

    It would be cool if attacking capital cities, that citie would spawn some defending armie.Making it very hard to conquer and destroy factions, as it should be.Constantinople didnt acually fell before much of Byzant lands were overrun, either by Turks, Serbians, Bulgarians,than they were so to say left with Constantinople just before they last days.Making that scrip would be awsome.I just hate when Venice loose their capital city so early on.Maybe making Venice on a Island as some suggested.That script might help AI keep it alive.Army that is spawned has 0 upkeep as long as its in the city, outside, it can just disband.Like that AI doesnt go in minus and is not forced to attack right away, even their allies whn they need coin.

    I remeber some talking about script upkeep of units can increase whn in enemy territory.That could keep AI from entering enemy territory if it really isnt interested in attack.I hoped some feature in expansion pack would make it so that we can make raids etc on enemy territory.Something that would expand strategie without need of implementing 100 provinces with new factions.It has been mentioned that one can now improve forts somehow, i think its mostly just for war improvments.Thats good, its step in right direction.But i was thinking, once you make new fort somewhere on strategic ground after choice, one could have lowered upkkep on armies, ability to hire mercenaries from forts.Building like new traderoute, merchant, etc.It could be like temporary settlement.So enemy would have to attack it first, destroy forts before moving to the provincial settlemnt.This means Enemy would have to have really large army and move quickly, becouse you would have ok time to rearrange counter attack or just reinforce settlemt that it can withstand siege.I dont know if something like this is possible now, but my hope is that something like this will feature in expansion about forts.
    Hehe, lots of that last was what i would like in game and not realistic for mod, sory i get carried away,having big imagination i guess

    I know there is just so many factions one can add, but i was thinking(imagine that, hehe).As you make all factions you had in mind having originally in Clouds across europe mod, what about continuing making factions.So those who would like to play with some other factions than those present can just unzip and overrite that faction using another one simply.For exep, instead of Kingdom of Georgia I would like to have present Cilician Kingdom of Armenia, but faction limt has been reached.So you make compatible faction for your mod that on installment removes one faction of your choosing.Same if if Serbia is ingame, but i want Bulgaria or visa versa.Hmmm, i hope you understand what i think.I say becouse, I as others would like to have some faction included for my personal taste, this might make that happen, I hoped someone would make factions mod like this eventually...

    This is easy for me to say, but very hard to do.It might be something to think about whn your mod has reached potensiall of your liking Zephrelial.
    Good luck with modding Zeph and thanks for contributing to community.I hope i wasnt imposing somewhat (YOU, DO this, DO that!, lol) by my post.Some things i think are possible by games engin,e others are maybe fiction so far, but i hope can be done eventually... anyways its something to think about, keep up god work Zeph
    GaziHusrevBeg as you can guess my biggest aim is mainly to enhance the game.By adding something this maybe big or small but adding something and enhancing is very important.

    And I like to do that by not cutting anything out as best as I can.So according to your suggestion we need to cut off the Aztecs,which I believe is an important part and feature of the game.And we fill them with rebels.This would look kind of lame to the player wouldn't it?
    People may miss to fight against the Aztecs,and suppose they're playing with Spain,they will not like neither would I fighting Rebels instead of Aztecs.

    So I believe this would be a drastical and quite a brave if not ineffectual change in the game.But about your suggestion the part includes that the Aztec lands should have gold spice resources that are valuable 4 times than the actual resources.This is what I also had in mind.
    As you say I intend to extend the map to the East because certainly East is lacking.I think we don't need new provinces in Europe or Asia minor or Arabia but we certainly need to extend the map to East if that is possible.
    The script about the capitals I think is a musthave.I intend to enable the script for all the starting cities of some major factions such as HRE and FRANCE and TURKS.

    Just take a look at this map please it's complete nonsense Milan had prevailed and destroyed most of the Catholic factions including HRE and FRANCE.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephrelial View Post
    GaziHusrevBeg as you can guess my biggest aim is mainly to enhance the game.By adding something this maybe big or small but adding something and enhancing is very important.

    And I like to do that by not cutting anything out as best as I can.So according to your suggestion we need to cut off the Aztecs,which I believe is an important part and feature of the game.And we fill them with rebels.This would look kind of lame to the player wouldn't it?
    People may miss to fight against the Aztecs,and suppose they're playing with Spain,they will not like neither would I fighting Rebels instead of Aztecs.

    So I believe this would be a drastical and quite a brave if not ineffectual change in the game.But about your suggestion the part includes that the Aztec lands should have gold spice resources that are valuable 4 times than the actual resources.This is what I also had in mind.
    As you say I intend to extend the map to the East because certainly East is lacking.I think we don't need new provinces in Europe or Asia minor or Arabia but we certainly need to extend the map to East if that is possible.
    The script about the capitals I think is a musthave.I intend to enable the script for all the starting cities of some major factions such as HRE and FRANCE and TURKS.

    Just take a look at this map please it's complete nonsense Milan had prevailed and destroyed most of the Catholic factions including HRE and FRANCE.
    LOL, same happened in one of my games as well.Milan goes beserk at start.Since i havent started playing as Milan I just go to descript_strat and have them be in minus for few turns.Keeps them in check for a while.I do that for danes and them, I loose taste as soon i hear that some major faction has been whiped out.

    I just hope you will consider adding some more territories.Maybe cut arabia and make out of 2 provinces, might make it less crowded at start and more balanced.Maybe take Navarre from Portugal(I hate that they have navarre that up north!) and let it be rebel.Extend existing Portugal province(Lisabon) bit north and cut it in two.

    Really I feel the same way in the campaign I played and posted the screenshot above,this really made me feel bad.
    It's reasonable after a certain period of time a faction can emerge with that much territory and having been defeated others but that faction shouldn't be Milan.
    Historically milan was just a rich city state and was the pawn of France and HRE.But in vanilla they constantly defeat both of them.
    If one AI faction should have succeeded like in the map above this should be a major faction could be England,France,HRE,The Turks,I don't know.
    Also these factions has a great unit roster (HRE,France,Turks) but somehow they all screw up,it's like harcoded or something.

    About the territories?Have you seen the territories of the Broken Crescent mod? I think the map should be like that.
    Last edited by Zephrelial; April 08, 2007 at 03:36 PM.
    Fighting with the Wisdom, the Bosnian Kingdom

  17. #17
    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Sorry I mixed my post with yours Gazi-Husrev Beg.Here is what I wrote.
    Really I feel the same way in the campaign I played and posted the screenshot above,this really made me feel bad.
    It's reasonable after a certain period of time a faction can emerge with that much territory and having been defeated others but that faction shouldn't be Milan.
    Historically milan was just a rich city state and was the pawn of France and HRE.But in vanilla they constantly defeat both of them.
    If one AI faction should have succeeded like in the map above this should be a major faction could be England,France,HRE,The Turks,I don't know.
    Also these factions has a great unit roster (HRE,France,Turks) but somehow they all screw up,it's like harcoded or something.

    About the territories?Have you seen the territories of the Broken Crescent mod? I think the map should be like that.I'm wondering in their mod Europe is taken out or not.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    In broken cresant Europe isnt in.Only partally with Byzantines, only europeans will be crusader states i think, KoJ and Principiallity of Antioch and one more i think.

    By the way, I checked Milan faction, They have some laaaaarge money income, seriously.i know they like venice were know for that, but on very start with their superior millitia infantry (Milanese Spear Millitia(Italian spearmilitia) is having defence like 14 and not very long in game they get Genoes Millitia Crossbow men.Acually in early era,compared with other Faction they have some of best unit roosters for infantry and that without the castles.Only poor cavalary.Whn they start the game, money seems to flow in, even whn playing at hard.not even 10 turns pass and they have assembled 2 large army of Italian spearmen, Milan crossbow militia and mercs.In my game to halt their advancment i even have them in -10000!!!

    I played last 2 nights with Spanish, had large crusader army on my way to frankfurt, but Venice beat me to it.So I thought to make short visit to beautifull city of Milan and maybe sack it or something and take few suveniers to Toledo.Maybe even head of the Duke, hehe...
    So, I beat 1 Milanise army of around 1000men somewhere near French border where they undoubtly were heading(to French),close by another army is coming with some large bell of around 1600!!!
    Ok, no panick I still have my crusading sargents,crusader knights and jinnets, I beat them and get to offer them ransom that is closly up to 5000!!!
    The same army that was ransomed attacks me as i close btwean milan and genoe and I kill them.Ughhhh, now i am left with some broken 300men with 20-30 men per unit and to my suprise milanise city is crowling with militia and mercs!!!He is making buildings, upkeep of units and is in still MAJOR plus.No wonder Milan is ruling the world in evry campain i play!LOL, he can afford it!
    I have been playing with descrp_stat on my own, taking out some buildings adding more populace etc etc tp balance them, I dont want to fight against Milanise World lol.
    I am not sure, but problem isnt maybe only that they have uber aggressive AI stance you should also check Milanise and Genoa standard income or something like that I am not sure where that is or how to mod it.There is something there that is defenetly wrong.I gave them 2 full armies of peasant archers and some italian millitia just to check things.Note that i have them -10000 at very start of the game and in matter of 4 turns they are already at -6000!!!( I know about kings purse, but still!!!!)They came to -2600 eventually and suddenly they just started go in minus again, but only few hundred.Odd if you ask me...defenetly something odd with Milanise income...

    Ok i hope this might help, at least give you some insight, you are free to try yourself.Do as I, let them go in minus, give them more troops and be amased at their economy!!!
    Fighting with the Wisdom, the Bosnian Kingdom

  19. #19
    Zephrelial's Avatar Eternal Sorrow
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    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazi Husrev-Beg View Post
    In broken cresant Europe isnt in.Only partally with Byzantines, only europeans will be crusader states i think, KoJ and Principiallity of Antioch and one more i think.

    By the way, I checked Milan faction, They have some laaaaarge money income, seriously.i know they like venice were know for that, but on very start with their superior millitia infantry (Milanese Spear Millitia(Italian spearmilitia) is having defence like 14 and not very long in game they get Genoes Millitia Crossbow men.Acually in early era,compared with other Faction they have some of best unit roosters for infantry and that without the castles.Only poor cavalary.Whn they start the game, money seems to flow in, even whn playing at hard.not even 10 turns pass and they have assembled 2 large army of Italian spearmen, Milan crossbow militia and mercs.In my game to halt their advancment i even have them in -10000!!!

    I played last 2 nights with Spanish, had large crusader army on my way to frankfurt, but Venice beat me to it.So I thought to make short visit to beautifull city of Milan and maybe sack it or something and take few suveniers to Toledo.Maybe even head of the Duke, hehe...
    So, I beat 1 Milanise army of around 1000men somewhere near French border where they undoubtly were heading(to French),close by another army is coming with some large bell of around 1600!!!
    Ok, no panick I still have my crusading sargents,crusader knights and jinnets, I beat them and get to offer them ransom that is closly up to 5000!!!
    The same army that was ransomed attacks me as i close btwean milan and genoe and I kill them.Ughhhh, now i am left with some broken 300men with 20-30 men per unit and to my suprise milanise city is crowling with militia and mercs!!!He is making buildings, upkeep of units and is in still MAJOR plus.No wonder Milan is ruling the world in evry campain i play!LOL, he can afford it!
    I have been playing with descrp_stat on my own, taking out some buildings adding more populace etc etc tp balance them, I dont want to fight against Milanise World lol.
    I am not sure, but problem isnt maybe only that they have uber aggressive AI stance you should also check Milanise and Genoa standard income or something like that I am not sure where that is or how to mod it.There is something there that is defenetly wrong.I gave them 2 full armies of peasant archers and some italian millitia just to check things.Note that i have them -10000 at very start of the game and in matter of 4 turns they are already at -6000!!!( I know about kings purse, but still!!!!)They came to -2600 eventually and suddenly they just started go in minus again, but only few hundred.Odd if you ask me...defenetly something odd with Milanise income...

    Ok i hope this might help, at least give you some insight, you are free to try yourself.Do as I, let them go in minus, give them more troops and be amased at their economy!!!
    Oh I predicted that Europe wasn't in Broken Crescent mod.And I think the only negativity about that mod it lacks Europe,but it seems currently there is no way to both put Europe and the East of the Caspian together.Other than that it's really a very very solid mod.(Broken Crescent)I congratulated Mirage about their work.Really brilliant.

    I agree with you that Milan always ending up wreaking havoc around is related with money.But I also think there might be something hardcoded that causes them to be uber-aggressive,as you yourself has also said.

    Have you ever played with the Turks?They have terrible economy.When I played with them,I understood that why the AI can never be successful with Turks.As a human player I am completely aware of the economy so I built all the trade-based and farmed-based buildings and still I had a great money problem.And as you know in the campaigns the Turks always somehow screw up.Or reign just in a few territories.

    Two days ago I was working with the values of the trade products.I changed them,mainly increased them.I was playing with HRE,then I got curious and opened the map with toggle_fow (again ) and to my surprise I saw that the Turks were doing pretty fine.They had taken most of the Anatolia.

    So judging by this I may say that economy is important.And it works this way according to what I researched.An AI faction basically built its units based on their turn based income,not by the amount of their current treasury.

    They(the AI factions) somehow fail to acknowledge howmuch money they got,but they are aware of how much they profit eachmonth.(which is quite strange) How do I know this? I gave the Turks and HRE 1,000,000 denaris each.
    Their armies and territories stayed the same.They didn't built tons of units.
    Shine on you crazy diamond...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Clouds Across Europe Mod Suggestions

    Turks, ofcourse,one of my fav factions.Hmmm, yes as turks even with many cities one getts income problem.But i guessed thats becouse every turn I build something.

    Merchants are just subtle illusion.I started many times with Milan to test some stuff I changed.I remeber whn i was heavy in minus, advice popped up and advised me to take a settlemnt so I get more income.Blah, I love those epic battles...but it would be awsome if one had more complicating or more invilved diplomacy without moving those agents every turn.I hate too much micro menagment...

    You might be nailing problem there with turn based economy theory.That might be key to have more balanced gameplay.maybe devs thought that Milan is underpowered at their current place and boosted their income.

    Acually strategic Milan has some awsome starting position and can be attacked only from few points becouse they are surrounded by mountains.
    So far I keep them in check by lowering tier for their starting settlement, but they advance pretty fast.

    I have noticed in few campains that i started, that teutonic order is in some 20 turns excommunicated.

    I played bit with stats in descript_stat.Just reduced Milan and genoa city by one tier to keep them being overly aggressive and expanding.I hope that you figure more about income and how its related to ai buildnug up for war.might be key to have more balanced gameplay.By that I mean that world isnt reduced to 3-4 ruling factions before 1300.

    Did CA made some promises, that if one faction at some point becomes uber powerfull,Neigbouring factions would allie and retaliate.

    I remeber that from some screnshots some while ago, just whn they started announcing medieval release,some of first screenshots were released.They called it a leak than.There was mission given from 2-3 allied factions
    that they ask you for help.In return there would be money rewared and settlement offered.
    I knew that was a hoax!!!People were saying that, but i sometimes refused to belive.Man, I was so happy lol, felt like kid again.Imagine my sorrow... oh well, maybe next installment will have more interesting, complicated diplomacy system.

    Good luck Zeph, keep us updated on your work, cool splash screen.Your brother is skilled
    Last edited by Gazi Husrev-Beg; April 11, 2007 at 04:44 PM. Reason: thought i saw something, was nothing
    Fighting with the Wisdom, the Bosnian Kingdom

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