Orthodox Patriarchs

**CtrlAltDe1337** · March 13, 2007, 11:33 PM

Why is Constantinople the only city with a Patriarch? Before the Muslims invaded the Middle East, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, and Constantinople were the five main patriarchates. Could you add a Patriarch retinue for the other three cities too? (only for Byzantines of course) I thought the current one was pretty cool and adding more would help the Byzantine's lack of Cardinals imo. Do you think you could duplicate the current one for the other three (or four if you include Rome) cities?

**King Kong** · March 14, 2007, 11:28 AM

What do you mean exactly with patriarch? Does even constantinople has a patriarch title (?). I think the title of constantinople is Duke or Despot or something like that...
Well, it's a good suggestion with the patriarchates, and I could make some titles for it, but is this what you meant with it?

**CtrlAltDe1337** · March 14, 2007, 11:55 AM

I mean for the first bishop you build out of Constantinople. He gets the Patriarch retinue which will either give +2 piety & +5% movement or -4 piety and +5% movement. I just wish you could do the same for Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.

**King Kong** · March 14, 2007, 12:23 PM

Ahh ok... I think that won't be hard to make and it seems to be historically accurate, so I probably will make that.
Thanks for the suggestion!

**student23** · March 14, 2007, 12:56 PM

Well actually the Patriarchate of Antioch was moved to Damascus in the 13th century...

**CtrlAltDe1337** · March 14, 2007, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by student23

Well actually the Patriarchate of Antioch was moved to Damascus in the 13th century...

True, but M2 is about changing history. If the Byzantines managed to recapture Antioch and hold it, I'm sure the patriarch would have stayed for longer.

**Dreadking** · March 14, 2007, 09:40 PM

Sounds like an excellent idea. I'm sure it will please Orthodox people like myself. By the way, the patriarchs still exist with the ECumenical Patriarch still in Constantinople this day and the {Pope remains in Rome.

**SickBoy13** · March 14, 2007, 10:25 PM

Echmadzin also had a Patriarch.

**student23** · March 15, 2007, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Crucifix

True, but M2 is about changing history. If the Byzantines managed to recapture Antioch and hold it, I'm sure the patriarch would have stayed for longer.

Of course, historical accuracy was not my point at all. I just thought why not put one to Damascus as well?! Also, when I remember correctly, there were several patriarchs in the Balkan region, were there not?! Or was that a different kind of Orthodoxy?

**King Kong** · March 15, 2007, 08:40 AM

I'm also liking the idea with new patriarchates. So, I think I will make new patriarchs for Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and probably Damaskus, hopefully with some interesting bonuses...

Thanks for all suggestions!

@Sick boy
Unfortunately, Echmadzin isn't on the map

**CtrlAltDe1337** · March 15, 2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by student23

Of course, historical accuracy was not my point at all. I just thought why not put one to Damascus as well?! Also, when I remember correctly, there were several patriarchs in the Balkan region, were there not?! Or was that a different kind of Orthodoxy?

I guess he could, he could also put one in Kiev for the Russians. I just didn't want to overload King with hundreds of patriarch requests.

In my opinion, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople should definately be in, then maybe Damascus and Kiev or something. I'm just glad you guys liked my idea.

**King Kong** · March 17, 2007, 07:16 AM

Hi Crucifix

I've just recognized from the character trait triggers, that the Byzantines theoretically can get the Patriarch trait in every city with a cathedral and not only in Constantinople...
Therfore, I think, I will probably change that, so that the Patriarch trait requires the ownership of a specific city, for example Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and Damaskus. Then it would also be no problem to make one for the Russians in Kiev...
So, I hope this will be more historically accurate...

**CtrlAltDe1337** · March 19, 2007, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by King Kong

Hi Crucifix

I've just recognized from the character trait triggers, that the Byzantines theoretically can get the Patriarch trait in every city with a cathedral and not only in Constantinople...
Therfore, I think, I will probably change that, so that the Patriarch trait requires the ownership of a specific city, for example Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and Damaskus. Then it would also be no problem to make one for the Russians in Kiev...
So, I hope this will be more historically accurate...

Cool, I can't wait

**finneys13** · March 19, 2007, 09:55 AM

If I remember right, in 1080 the only Patriarchs were still the original five, Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria.

As someone said, Damascus wasn't to have one to later, and I think he was still called the Patriarch of Damascus, Kiev was an Archbishopric.

I would only give Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria Patriarchs, and slightly less good traits than Constantinople, instead of 10% piety, have 7% piety or so.