[ORIGINAL THREAD] BROKEN CRESCENT: Total War in the MidEast

[Hansa]

Great mod idea, good luck.

[pajomife]

I hope you don't handicap the Cristian factions , as the name is BROKEN CRESCENT ,i think its a bit complicated mod ,you have to wait for the 2 patch
for the new scripts and tools , its over than 650 Mb , but i like the idea to much
, the name not to much ,maybe Crescent VS Cross or something less Islamic.

[Ahiga]

I hope you don't handicap the Cristian factions , as the name is BROKEN CRESCENT ,i think its a bit complicated mod ,you have to wait for the 2 patch
for the new scripts and tools , its over than 650 Mb , but i like the idea to much
, the name not to much ,maybe Crescent VS Cross or something less Islamic.

My friend, have you seen the sorts of mods that are tailored to the Europeans?

They are about 95% of all the mods out or in development.

Will we see Sunni and Shi'ite? Seems like a pretty critical splitup.

I'd also suggest that as a momentary solution for a lack of units and an inability to edit mesh, you could use the dvor and Boyar Son's as reskinned mameluke units. Their helmets, armor, and shields are all rather 'eastern' enough to pass as egyptian.

[Miraj]

I'll try and be patient, but my friend, have you seen the sorts of mods that are tailored to the Europeans?

They are about 95% of all the mods out or in development.

Will we see Sunni and Shi'ite? Seems like a pretty critical splitup.

I'd also suggest that as a momentary solution for a lack of units and an inability to edit mesh, you could use the dvor and Boyar Son's as reskinned mameluke units. Their helmets, armor, and shields are all rather 'eastern' enough to pass as egyptian.

I'll have to simply reskin existing units and clone models. Yeah, I will probably salvage alot of the Russian and Hungarian units for Georgia and Armenia and Egypt. Thats until I can recruit a really good skinner.

No Shiites. I really wanted to but I felt it was at the end a pretty unimportant and complicating factor to add. Instead I'm more hoping to be able to add Hinduism instead.

I hope you don't handicap the Cristian factions , as the name is BROKEN CRESCENT ,i think its a bit complicated mod ,you have to wait for the 2 patch
for the new scripts and tools , its over than 650 Mb , but i like the idea to much
, the name not to much ,maybe Crescent VS Cross or something less Islamic.

Please be reminded that the central focus of this mod are the Muslim factions. In fact there is not a single other Mod I have seen that deals with this.
However, I am not unfair and I won't handicap the Christian factions. In fact I hope to push this mod to players interesting in Georgia and Armenia and hope this mod will be the first to represent them at their best: Cicilian Armenia and the rising Kingdom of Georgia. So don't worry about that. You can conquer Persia and India for Christ if thats your fancy.

But the name stays Broken Crescent because this mod is about the Muslim factions that are at war with each other.

[The Mongol]

I respect you for making something different mirage, stick to it man. This mod could rock hard.

The Muslim factions never get the attention they deserve, they have just as much interesting stuff as Europe.

[Plutarch]

Crescent vs Cross is too similar to the History Channel's 2 part movie, "The Crescent and the Cross" imo. Since alot of people got the movie in the M2TW package, it would seem like the mod were "biting" it as well.

[Averroës]

I'm looking forward to this!

One small suggestion would be a change to the names for the Sultanates of Ghazni and Delhi.

Since you're starting in 1175, technically the Sultanate of Delhi didn't exist. The first independent Sultanate of Delhi was started by the Ghurid general, Qutb-ud-din Ayba, who conquered Delhi for the Ghurids. In 1206, after the death of the Ghurid leader Muhammad Ghori, he declared himself independent of the Ghurids.

Starting in 1175, it was the Ghurids from western Ghazni who were rebelling and slowly taking over the Ghaznavids. So at the time of 1175, the western portion should be the Ghurids and the Delhi portion should still be the Ghaznavids. By the 1190's the Ghaznavid Empire had ceased to exist, having been entirely replaced by the Muhammad Ghori's rebel Ghurids.

It's just a small technical thing, though.

[Miraj]

I'm looking forward to this!

One small suggestion would be a change to the names for the Sultanates of Ghazni and Delhi.

Since you're starting in 1175, technically the Sultanate of Delhi didn't exist. The first independent Sultanate of Delhi was started by the Ghurid general, Qutb-ud-din Ayba, who conquered Delhi for the Ghurids. In 1206, after the death of the Ghurid leader Muhammad Ghori, he declared himself independent of the Ghurids.

Starting in 1175, it was the Ghurids from western Ghazni who were rebelling and slowly taking over the Ghaznavids. So at the time of 1175, the western portion should be the Ghurids and the Delhi portion should still be the Ghaznavids. By the 1190's the Ghaznavid Empire had ceased to exist, having been entirely replaced by the Muhammad Ghori's rebel Ghurids.

It's just a small technical thing, though.

Yeah, I'm aware of this. But the thing is I want this mod to be 'western' friendly so I wanted to stay out of naming the factions after any dynasties. I know the Delhi Sultanate did not even exist at this point, however, I was sort of giving this mod an "allowance" of few years here or there. But If I feel the eastern parts of the map are far too lonely I may indeed add the "The Ghurid Emirate" as a faction along with the Ghaznavids and Delhi.

[HeracliustheVictor]

This looks like fun, I can finally play as the Byzantines without having to worry about those pesky Venetians. By the way what kind of units did Indian armies use?

[Averroës]

Yeah, I'm aware of this. But the thing is I want this mod to be 'western' friendly so I wanted to stay out of naming the factions after any dynasties. I know the Delhi Sultanate did not even exist at this point, however, I was sort of giving this mod an "allowance" of few years here or there. But If I feel the eastern parts of the map are far too lonely I may indeed add the "The Ghurid Emirate" as a faction along with the Ghaznavids and Delhi.

Works for me. I really like the idea of this mod. I wish I had some kind of graphics/skinning skill to help. Sadly my only forte is absorbing ridiculous amounts of mostly useless trivia about things which only interest history buffs like most of us here. Good for trivia contests, I suppose.

[Miraj]

Works for me. I really like the idea of this mod. I wish I had some kind of graphics/skinning skill to help. Sadly my only forte is absorbing ridiculous amounts of mostly useless trivia about things which only interest history buffs like most of us here. Good for trivia contests, I suppose.

Well historical knowledge is a must for me. If you wanna join and contribute historical battle info on what units, symbols etc I can use then please do so. And the info doesn't need to be super accurate, this is after all a game. EG. If you read up on a historical battle and it mentions "spearmen from Khorasan held the line.." then I could make a unit called "Khorasan Spearmen" .. so historical knowledge helps us tie together at least an idea of what we could include.

[AlphaDelta]

mirage41,

I'm no great skinner, but if it helps I can do simple things like add new units to a faction rosters and re-skin the unit to fit the factions colour scheme. Also I can make new unit cards and unit info cards. I know enough to dismount units and I could also make new banners and faction symbols given some historical references.

I cant paint new skins from the ground up, but If you want some help with the grunt work I am volunteering.

Cheers

[AlphaDelta]

Here's something I've been working on today, might be good for the mod.

Heavy mail Egyptian dismounted mamluk archers.



Cheers

[Tadzreuli]

MAKE UNITS for Georgia is verry simple, becouse Georgian army used mixed military traditions: Byzantium and Easterns, and of course original Georgian warfare.

I represent some my opinion, about Georgian army unit list and how these should be create:


I. Infantry:

1. peasant (light)
2. spearmen militia ( light)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
3. archer militia ( light)
4. castle guard - "Metsikhovne" (midle spearmen) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
5. castle archer - "Metsikhovne Mshvildosani" (light)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
6. Kartlian Spearmen (havy)
7. Aznaur's - feodal swordsmen (havy swordsmen, should base on Dismounted Latinikon)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
8. Tadzreuli - Christian swordsmen, monastery soldier (havy swordsmen) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
9. Msakhureuli - (midle spearmen)
http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?i...1083107pg8.jpg
10. Khevsur's - havy swordsmen form Georgin higland provinces, verry strong infantry.
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...17thumbmj8.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ragvelihl7.jpg

II. Cavalry

1. Georgian light cavalry
2. Eristav's cavalry (havy lancers)
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...158df35oh0.jpg
3. Royal Pecheneg cavalry (horsemen archer, midle cavalry)
http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tavadi3kq4.jpg
4. Royal guard - "Monaspa" (havy, universal)
http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gurielinj6.jpg
5. Tadzreuli Cavalry - (havy sworsmen cavalry)
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=988faceef9.jpg

III. missile infantry

1. Svan's "Svimra" Archers - (midle missile infantry)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632

2. Lazian archer (should be Trabizonian Archer reskin)

[Miraj]

Here's something I've been working on today, might be good for the mod.

Heavy mail Egyptian dismounted mamluk archers.



Cheers

Awsome, awsome. I really really need some who can do this. We will be reskinning and touching up existing units at first. So you're skills are perfect for this mod.

I. Infantry:

1. peasant (light)
2. spearmen militia ( light)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
3. archer militia ( light)
4. castle guard - "Metsikhovne" (midle spearmen) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
5. castle archer - "Metsikhovne Mshvildosani" (light)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
6. Kartlian Spearmen (havy)
7. Aznaur's - feodal swordsmen (havy swordsmen, should base on Dismounted Latinikon)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
8. Tadzreuli - Christian swordsmen, monastery soldier (havy swordsmen) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632
9. Msakhureuli - (midle spearmen)
http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?i...1083107pg8.jpg
10. Khevsur's - havy swordsmen form Georgin higland provinces, verry strong infantry.
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...17thumbmj8.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ragvelihl7.jpg

II. Cavalry

1. Georgian light cavalry
2. Eristav's cavalry (havy lancers)
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?i...158df35oh0.jpg
3. Royal Pecheneg cavalry (horsemen archer, midle cavalry)
http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tavadi3kq4.jpg
4. Royal guard - "Monaspa" (havy, universal)
http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gurielinj6.jpg
5. Tadzreuli Cavalry - (havy sworsmen cavalry)
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=988faceef9.jpg

III. missile infantry

1. Svan's "Svimra" Archers - (midle missile infantry)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632

2. Lazian archer (should be Trabizonian Archer reskin)

Hey Tadzreuli,

I was looking through the pics of the different units and I'm pretty positive that we can do this. There are many units from the Byz, Hungary, Turks and Egypt that we can simply modify and recolour. However, we will make some of the units you put forward for georgia, others I will make as unique mercenaries recruitable in the Caucusus region.
Once I can get my own sub-forum, I'll dedicate a thread to Georgia and i'll repost all you stuff their.

Thanks man!

[AlphaDelta]

Ok I'll get working on the georgians then.

I think the saracen militia model is the best fit for the Shubosani Molashqre (spearman militia). Seems to use the right shield, spear, head mail etc.

I guess georgia's 'colour scheme' should be red and white?

Should we use native names for the units (i.e Shubosani Molashqre instead of spearmen militia)?

Cheers

[Miraj]

Ok I'll get working on the georgians then.

I think the saracen militia model is the best fit for the Shubosani Molashqre (spearman militia). Seems to use the right shield, spear, head mail etc.

I guess georgia's 'colour scheme' should be red and white?

Should we use native names for the units (i.e Shubosani Molashqre instead of spearmen militia)?

Cheers

Thanks Alpha!

I'm gonna try to keep the names user-friendly. So I plan to simply and anglicize the names a bit. So for example instead of Shubosani Molashqre perhaps "Shubosani Spears" or "Molashkri Spearmen". I loved ROP and EB mods for RTW but I absolutely loathed the dozens of completely unpronouncable names. I like native names, just simpler.

But no need to worry about that now, changing units names is easy and the last thing on the list.

[AlphaDelta]

Ok how about this for the georgian spear militia.



Cheers

[Ahiga]

Alpha, I'm not certain it's possible (I had difficulty with this), but have you tried replacing the heads? I think those might fit the georgians, but perhaps intermixing them with Russian heads would give a good look to it.

Otherwise it's pretty nice, though I feel like the cross on their chests is a bit too bold. If that's what the concept art showed, then no worries at all.

I've a suggestion for a unit reskin. I might try my hand at it myself in a few days.



The best unit to use would probably be one of the Italian Militias. You could use one of the earlier ones and add on a helmet the way Burrek Did on Andalusian Spearmen, or you could use the final tier of Italian spear militia (When they wear birgadine, I think, with plate-leggings). It features a helmet you can sculpt to be like this guys, and then the only concern is how to deal with the plate-ish leggings.

Osprey mentioned this was an Anatolian Spearmen.

[AlphaDelta]

have you tried replacing the heads?

I dont know how to do this? Is it possible, I dont think it can be done without editing .mesh files?

The mailed head looks similar to the reference.

The cross is a bit bold, It can be desaturated or deleted no problems.

Nice reference, that soldier looks a lot like the Kartlian Spearmen posted here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85632

He seems to have the same shield, spear, similar helmet, slight different armour (mail vs scale).

Cheers