Fighting Guild idea

[Ledung]

Just wanted to share the info on the rennaissance fighting guilds prominent in Germany (and probably elsewhere also), many of the dopplesoldners got their training here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxbruder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federfechter

Here is a real cool description of how a master had to proceed in order to be allowed to set up a fighting school (fechtschule) in a german town (fun read!)

http://www.swordhistory.com/excerpts/marx.html

Here is some info on rennaissance fighting with weapons, and without:

www.thearma.org (awesome site, with movie clips of sparring and technique demonstrations etc, and copies of actual period fighting instructions written and illustrated by the masters of that time)


Anyhow, having a fighting guild could be a cool idea for this mod, which seems like the best one out there.

cheers.

[Axe-Battler]

Thank you Ledung for sharing that with us!

We will definitely take that into account.

[justme]

swordsmen guilds already implemented - 2 levels available
geographically limited to certain cities which historically had such a guild (eg Frankfurt, etc)

[DrIstvaan]

geographically limited to certain cities which historically had such a guild

But can you keep the balance, i.e. give every area one or more of these cities?

[justme]

of course I could... it's quite easy to activate the guild for any area on the map.

the problem however is that historicallythere were very few such *patented* swordsmen guilds (ie officially recognized by a royal edict or something) and I already went overboard in giving regions the capability to acquire such a guild (note: I finally had to base the decision of whether or not to activate the guild for a region on the biographies of famous swordmasters, eg Talhoffer and others - where they lived and taught or were in any way active, that region got the guild)

[DrIstvaan]

But is there any way to make some balancing (not by making something ahistorical here, but in some other way)? 'cause this way it seems to be favoring those areas, resulting in the players being inclined to them.

[justme]

what do you mean?

faction-wise or region-wise?

as things are, almost all western factions have a region where swordsmen guilds are possible (I think except denmark and scotland)

as for the regions themselves, think of it as a an extra (strategic level) incentive to keep it ...or to grab it from someone else

PS: the swordsmen guilds offer some unit recruitment (eg greatsword wielders) for the region plus blade weapon upgrade for the whole faction (just like the swordmakers guild)

[Ledung]

Awesome justme!

The old masters could be cool ancilliaries too (but you probably thought of that aswell allready), I wouldnt mind having Dei Liberi, Ott the Jew, von Danzig or grandmaster Lichtenauer himself in my entourage

Edit: just wanted to add that I really like this idea, learning the art and systems of fighting was a great part of any noblemans education in those days (and among the burger class aswell when the guilds started to kick in), and it is a shame it was not in the vanilla version already (then the fact that I've been practicing HEMA myself for 4 years adds to the interest )

[DrIstvaan]

I've meant it faction-wise. That's OK if all the Westerns will have one region with that, but what's the case with p.e. Italian factions? They should be compensated in some way (p.e. by giving them units at the highest tier(s) that the other, guild-owner factions don't have).

[justme]

The old masters could be cool ancilliaries too (but you probably thought of that aswell allready), I wouldnt mind having Dei Liberi, Ott the Jew, von Danzig or grandmaster Lichtenauer himself in my entourage

You know of course taht the masters you mention were already dead by 1494

But seriously, you're right that having some of the great sword masters of the 16th century as an ancillary would be really cool...

Dristvaan, can you implement ancillaries based on whether or not there's a guild built for the faction/region??? (you don't want the swordmaster ancillary if there's no guild in the first place)

I've meant it faction-wise. That's OK if all the Westerns will have one region with that, but what's the case with p.e. Italian factions? They should be compensated in some way (p.e. by giving them units at the highest tier(s) that the other, guild-owner factions don't have).

There were great italian swordmasters in the 16th cent Dristvaan... Do I even have to mention Acchille Marozzo or Camillo Agrippa? In fact, the Italian school of fencing was at its peak about then, and the Spanish school was at its beginning (referred to as the "Spanish circle", first fully described by Jeronimo de Caranza in his swordplay book in 1560-something)... Therefore: there are cities in Italy where fencing guilds are possible (eg Florence for one, I think I also enabled Rome and maybe Milan too - don't have it in front of me right now) - no need for any extra compensation

On the other hand, as soon as I release the next beta we'll have to balance a number of newly implemented features, among which the guild and the bonuses it offers :hmmm:

[DrIstvaan]

That's OK, I don't know much about history... even tough I learn Italian at university, there are only two semesters of Italian History we learn. And on a personal preference, I prefer more abstract things, such as literature, arts and filosophy. I've only been concerned about factions that remain without those guildds anyway, if there are any.
As for the ancillaries, yes, it is possible to give guildmasters only to those factions that have p.e. Master level of that guild. The newest BBB has guildmasters already (for Thieves and Assassins Guilds), I think I can easily add your Renaissance ones.
EDIT: But if I am to ever make that, I'll have to have some pictures to use as icons for ancillaries, as no one can expect me to draw their portraits .

[Ledung]

You know of course taht the masters you mention were already dead by 1494

doh! Didnt see the starting date for the mod.

[Hrimfar]

Now with the new editing-mesh thingie - is it possible to make say knights or men at arms armed with bastardswords? I really think that the Renaissance TW needs some decent looking swordsmen. And the "gothic" sallet helmet should be included in italian and french models too...